[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Funny, I've never met an unitelligent person who was mentally flexible.
Creative problem solving demands it.

Although I have met a few otherwise highly intelligent people who were very inflexible mentally, but in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule.

Dude there's all kinds of people like that... to the point there are names for the stereotypes or traits. Logic is "Book Smarts", Intuition is "Street Smarts." Just like the rules divide them up... there are people who can describe as having "low cunning." Cause I've definitely known people that figure out some ingenious things but who would beat you for posing the a math problem... either because they would think we're trying to make them look stupid or maybe cause thinking about the numbers themselves made their brains hurt. But let them case a place & they'd come back with some good plans for how to carry out the heist.

[adzling]

that's an intelligent person without education.
not the same as a low logic personage.

at least not imho

[Novocrane]

that's an intelligent person without education.
not the same as a low logic person

I'd say the point can be disputed based on whether the individual has put effort into education.

[Hobbes]

that's an intelligent person without education.
not the same as a low logic person

I'd say the point can be disputed based on whether the individual has put effort into education.

And the other bit that gets me on this topic.  Human intelligence is an incredibly complex subject.  To be sitting at a gaming table and say "John that's a great idea, but no way someone with Logic of 2 would come up with that.  Think of something simpler...."  Implies that A.  You can somehow put human intelligence down to a single number.  And B.  You've got some secret scale of measurements delimiting exactly what those numbers mean. 

A. You can't.  B.  You don't.  And most of all C. Why would you want to be that guy?

[Sterling]

that's an intelligent person without education.
not the same as a low logic person

I'd say the point can be disputed based on whether the individual has put effort into education.

And the other bit that gets me on this topic.  Human intelligence is an incredibly complex subject.  To be sitting at a gaming table and say "John that's a great idea, but no way someone with Logic of 2 would come up with that.  Think of something simpler...."  Implies that A.  You can somehow put human intelligence down to a single number.  And B.  You've got some secret scale of measurements delimiting exactly what those numbers mean. 

A. You can't.  B.  You don't.  And most of all C. Why would you want to be that guy?

Logic is the cold, calculating part of the brain.  The part that can take a step back and come up with a complicated plan.  Someone with low Logic is not, to me, stupid, but rather someone who gets easily bored and frustrated.  THAT is why I'd question whether somebody with Logic 2 would be coming up with a masterplan.  A low Logic character isn't going to be a chess grandmaster, because it involves complicated planning and deployment of pieces.  Likewise, a low Logic character shouldn't be planning the assault on a fortified complex.

That said, a high Logic character with low Intuition would be my last choice for tracking down a fugitive in the wilderness, as this is a situation that relies more on a gut feeling and empathy with the target.

But, if a player chooses to make a character with a low overall Mental limit, then I'd feel more justified in saying that the character is less intelligent.  Surely that's fair?

[Whiskeyjack]

Limit is a pure abstraction. There is WAY too much reading of fluff into crunch whenever an iteration of this discussion pops up.

[Sterling]

Limit is a pure abstraction. There is WAY too much reading of fluff into crunch whenever an iteration of this discussion pops up.

Can you explain this, please.  Limits are a purely mechanical abstraction to prevent low Stat characters from performing unrealistically.  How is any of that Fluff?

[Hobbes]

Logic is the cold, calculating part of the brain.  The part that can take a step back and come up with a complicated plan.  Someone with low Logic is not, to me, stupid, but rather someone who gets easily bored and frustrated.  THAT is why I'd question whether somebody with Logic 2 would be coming up with a masterplan.  A low Logic character isn't going to be a chess grandmaster, because it involves complicated planning and deployment of pieces.  Likewise, a low Logic character shouldn't be planning the assault on a fortified complex.

That said, a high Logic character with low Intuition would be my last choice for tracking down a fugitive in the wilderness, as this is a situation that relies more on a gut feeling and empathy with the target.

But, if a player chooses to make a character with a low overall Mental limit, then I'd feel more justified in saying that the character is less intelligent.  Surely that's fair?

The one and only skill in the game that has anything to do with planning an assault is Small Unit Tactics and that is an Intuition based skill.  And what is the metric for "too complicated"?  And, per WhiskeyJack's point, wouldn't Mental Limit be more appropriate?

[Kincaid]

Strictly speaking, SUT isn't used to plan, it's used to react/deploy.  You can plan to set up a crossfire beforehand, but you can't actually use the skill until the situation develops--that is, once you're in initiative.

What a Logic 1 means varies tremendously from table to table.  I don't think there's a "correct" answer so much as there is a series of answers that work for a variety of tables.  I parse Logic and Intuition more than most when it comes to skills (especially KS), so they serve very distinct functions at my table.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

that's an intelligent person without education.
not the same as a low logic personage.

at least not imho

No... a couple really stand out Popeye was one of the second story men I ever knew and was dumb as a rock but man he could scheme. Rhino was not only stupid but psychotic but man could he read weakness in people instantly & have a plan to get their stuff (usually it was just to hit them but that's all those needed but I remember being impressed a couple times when the straight on approach wouldn't work because the victims were people we could touch without getting in trouble ourselves.)

[Top Dog]

Popeye and Rhino aren't exactly realistic characters though. And realistically, you can't scheme well without intelligence. Reading and planning is 'easier' in the sense that it can come naturally to otherwise not-so-smart people, but it's related as well.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Popeye and Rhino aren't exactly realistic characters though. And realistically, you can't scheme well without intelligence. Reading and planning is 'easier' in the sense that it can come naturally to otherwise not-so-smart people, but it's related as well.

I don't know if they were realistic or not but they were Real People I committed Real Felonies with who all three of us ended up going to Real Prison for doing that kind of behavior. The only thing I don't know is their Real Names which is fair cause they never knew mine either.