[Crunch]

From long experience RPing, I will say that succeeding at the stuff in which you are superior to everyone else will give you conversation next week, but it's the stuff in which you succeed despite having a poor ability - and/or against great adversity - which will be your topic of conversation two, five, or twenty years from now.

Honestly, the PCs are supposed to be special and exceptional. The absolute worst, bottom of the barrel, PC should be quite a bit more capable (not counting gear or other things purchased with monetary generation resources) than the average person--to the point where the average person has no business being on the same city block as the PC in any given area of ability.

That's another one of those style of play/style of story issues to which there is no right answer. Some of the most fun I've ever had at a gaming table have been  situations where we were so badly outclassed that we had to get really creative and get just a little lucky (like the time my bubba cop rammed the flesh elemental with  his '55 Ford State Cop Special and died in a ball of fire saving his backwater town from the necromancer, some days I miss call of Chulhu). Having the best stats or the most shinies aren't what make a character memorable to me, rather its the weaknesses and drawbacks that stay in my mind and make fun and memorable play.

I fully understand that "HAXXOR I HAZ THE MOZT DICES" is fun for some people and I support their right to play in any way they want, but frankly I'm glad neither the game, nor the world require it. Heck being outclassed is at the heart of the Cyberpunk genre, and for me SR will always be at heart a Cyberpunk game with a hope injection.

[Mäx]

One thing to keep in mind is that the "Starting Karma" of 25 points is really equal to 50 Karma since the post-chargen cost of Qualities is listed as rating x2.  It would therefore be less efficient to buy Attributes/Skills/whatever with those points, and instead maximally efficient to use those points entirely on qualities.

That maybe very karma effeciant, but it still isn't that good of an idea untill there are more qualities to choose from.

And yeah since they went back to SR3 prices for ware(or more) the priority A should defiedly give a cool mill again.

[samoth]

Yes, the quality choices are lacking.  I've thrown that logic out the window and started counting Bonus Karma as equal to standard Karma, which makes raising dump stats and adding rank 1 skills the best use for it (aside from initiation which I think will be errated as not obtainable at chargen).

[Mäx]

(aside from initiation which I think will be errated as not obtainable at chargen).

What part of the rules give you the impression that it currently is?

I personally don't see a reason to not allow it, but im pretty positive that the rules dont.

[Michael Chandra]

It'd be a FAQ clarification perhaps, maybe an 'errata' to clarify, but it's not intended as the rules are written now.

[artent]

lame...no technomancer riggers on start then.

[Mäx]

lame...no technomancer riggers on start then.

This is one of the bigger reasons why i personally think it should be allowed, along with not seeing much balance issues.

[Ghoulfodder]

From long experience RPing, I will say that succeeding at the stuff in which you are superior to everyone else will give you conversation next week, but it's the stuff in which you succeed despite having a poor ability - and/or against great adversity - which will be your topic of conversation two, five, or twenty years from now.

Honestly, the PCs are supposed to be special and exceptional. The absolute worst, bottom of the barrel, PC should be quite a bit more capable (not counting gear or other things purchased with monetary generation resources) than the average person--to the point where the average person has no business being on the same city block as the PC in any given area of ability.

PCs are better than the average Joe, but that doesn't mean they have to all have attributes better than the average Joe. That's what priority E is for surely, to allow someone to play an effective character by being extra good at magic, or skills, or have more resources or be luckier, whilst not being smarter and fitter than average, in fact being worse.

If you want to play a character who's got better than normal atributes, don't pick priority E or D for attributes. Just because you don't want to do it, doesn't mean the rules shouldn't let others do it.

[ZeConster]

lame...no technomancer riggers on start then.

This is one of the bigger reasons why i personally think it should be allowed, along with not seeing much balance issues.

I said this in the other topic about this: 5 of the metamagics get stronger with your grade, which means things can be pretty unbalancing if someone initiates 3 times for 48 chargen Karma. With an adept, you can only really go for Adept Centering (reduce negative dice pool modifiers by 3 for a Free Action) and 2 extra PP, but with Magicians, you've got 4 that get stronger: Centering (+X Drain Resistance dice for a Free Action), Flexible Signature (3+X hits instead of 3 to recognize your true astral signature if you forged it, Force X effects leave no astral signature, and higher Force effects last X hours shorter), Masking (pretend being mundane or having anywhere between X fewer and X more Magic, Magic + X dice to Oppose Assensing Tests), and Shielding (+X dice added to the spell defense pool when you declare spell defense). Centering and Flexible Signature are especially handy if combined - at Initiate Grade 3, you can basically cast Force 3 Area indirect combat spells nonstop (with 6 Magic, 5 Drain-resist stat, and Centering, you take an average of 0.1361 Drain damage if Drain is 3, and 0.0308 if Drain is 2) and without having to worry about erasing your trail afterwards.

[quindraco]

Has anyone started tallying the Karma value of the options in the priority system for optimal Karma efficiency?

Yes.  What do you want, a shortcut to the optimal efficiency build?  I'll warn you, it's very silly.

Did you read the warning?  I don't want to be held responsible for you building this, because it's quite silly.

Ok.  Metatype Dwarf C, Attributes D, Magic B, Skills A, Resources E is optimal - provided, of course, you spend optimally (that means fewer stats/skills driven as high as possible, rather than spreading out).