[ArkangelWinter]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

Heck, most of the West didn't believe the Holocaust was occurring until they physically walked in on it.

[CanRay]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

Heck, most of the West didn't believe the Holocaust was occurring until they physically walked in on it.

Humans are pretty adept at ignoring things that are...  Inconvenient to their world view.

[Sichr]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

You would speak differnet if you are European

[Black]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

You would speak differnet if you are European

Rwanda wasn't ignored, at least not everywhere.  Aussies had un troops there, they just weren't allowed to do anything, thank you security council members...  But what was happening was well known.

Also, the location is different.  Europe may not be the place it is today, but it's home to some pretty important locations and the 'circuit'

Finally, this is not just man on man volience, this is an alien creature turning mankind into cattle. That's got to cause some reaction.

And while mainstream media is perhaps turning a bLind eye, what about shadowsea and pirate triid stations, word of mouth from refugees and smugglers, impacts on criminal networks that use the plex etc?

[Sichr]

In fact, considering criminal syndicates operating in the area toda, those organizations are those who have great potential not only survive awakening and its consequencies, but also profit from it. And GeMiTo...hmmmlooks like great area for such organizations. And such organizations own media. Always looking for oportunity to spread chaos, because in such conditions they are winning the price.
Also...every christian in the world would get interrested if something like that...Hellspawn killing innocents, happens nextdoor to Vatican, in the hardcore cradle of the Church.

[Crimsondude]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

You would speak differnet if you are European

Indeed. I'd make overtly racist remarks about it being African tribal violence.

[Kot]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

You would speak differnet if you are European

Indeed. I'd make overtly racist remarks about it being African tribal violence.

That was rude. And uncalled for.
Sichr was referring to the fact, that Europe had a lot of things like that happening to it's people. Would you like if I pointed to the Native American people being massacred by the US citizens and military in the real world?
Oh, wait. I just did... Sorry for that, but I hope you get the point. Nobody is innocent, but there are some things, that Europe suffered from, and wounds that will not heal anytime soon. As I wrote on the WAR! topic before: One trip to the Auschwitz museum is what it takes, to make people see.

P.S. Sorry for being emotional, and all, but after some dumb memetic/racist stuff my players said during the last game I'm being a bit touchy about the subject.

[Nath]

No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

You would speak differnet if you are European

Indeed. I'd make overtly racist remarks about it being African tribal violence.

I think he was rather referring to how European audience would react to dragons killing people in northern Italy. That is, any distance between 0 and 2,000 kilometers away from their house. A better example would be hundred of killings in Mexico, and no one in the US even remotely aware of what's going on even in San Diego, San Antonio or Corpus Christi.

But since we're already well into overtly racist cliché, I guess people in the US are oblivious about anything happening outside of their border, even that close. And imagine the rest of the world mustn't know better. As amazing as it may appear to the American audience, there were major channels in Europe that covered the killings in Rwanda from day one in the evening news. Oh, and journalists could correctly pinpoint where the country is on a map.

I find all the more amusing to describe a racist a depiction of Rwanda genocide as "African tribal violence". As far as I know, Rwanda is in Africa, to be a Tutsi or a Hutu depends solely on the tribe you're from, and the genocide amounted to violence.

[Wakshaani]

Woo, guys? How about we toss some cool water on the RL talk for a bit?

Just a soft suggestion.

[Sichr]

Oh, and journalists could correctly pinpoint where the country is on a map.

That, sir, was a good one.

But...just to get the feeling, from my house to Venezia it is about 600km. Thats like 2/5 of distance from Seattle to Denver. With no "tribal" areas between...

[carmachu]

That was rude. And uncalled for.
Sichr was referring to the fact, that Europe had a lot of things like that happening to it's people. Would you like if I pointed to the Native American people being massacred by the US citizens and military in the real world?

Oh, wait. I just did... Sorry for that, but I hope you get the point. Nobody is innocent, but there are some things, that Europe suffered from, and wounds that will not heal anytime soon. As I wrote on the WAR! topic before: One trip to the Auschwitz museum is what it takes, to make people see.

Hate to break it to you, people do that all the time. Usually in as a method of moral equivilency over various massacres.

Kinda like you just did now.

Reality is, no one gave a crap about rwanda while it happened, inso much they got off their rears to DO something about it. Not EU. Not the US, not really anyone. So the poster was correct, no one cared. They might have said alot of the right things after the fact as caring, but reality when it came to actions/inactions tell another story.

[Sichr]

That was rude. And uncalled for.
Sichr was referring to the fact, that Europe had a lot of things like that happening to it's people. Would you like if I pointed to the Native American people being massacred by the US citizens and military in the real world?

Oh, wait. I just did... Sorry for that, but I hope you get the point. Nobody is innocent, but there are some things, that Europe suffered from, and wounds that will not heal anytime soon. As I wrote on the WAR! topic before: One trip to the Auschwitz museum is what it takes, to make people see.

Hate to break it to you, people do that all the time. Usually in as a method of moral equivilency over various massacres.

Kinda like you just did now.

Reality is, no one gave a crap about rwanda while it happened, inso much they got off their rears to DO something about it. Not EU. Not the US, not really anyone. So the poster was correct, no one cared. They might have said alot of the right things after the fact as caring, but reality when it came to actions/inactions tell another story.

es. Today we can see equivalent in Syria

But to this, only one point...

Being unable to act is something completely different from being unaware. As Ive understand the topic we are talking about is that there was major manslaughter in GeMiTo and there is no public coverage on this event, more, it seems that people are completely unaware of the event...

[Mirikon]

The reason for that is simple, Sichr. There is no such thing as a 'free press' in 2074. There are news outlets owned by the corps (who have decided that mass panic is bad for business, and GeMiTo is practically the Chicago of Europe), and then there's tabloids and pirate and shadow news outlets, who have limited reporting capabilities, limited distribution, and a lack of 'credibility' as far as the sheeple are concerned. The reason most people are unaware is because they haven't been told, and good corporate sheep don't go looking around on shadow news sites. Whatever they do hear is reports from someplace a long way away, and is not nearly as important to them as filing those TPS reports so they don't have to stay late on Saturday.

[Sichr]

IDN. In Chicago there was active contrapropaganda. Everyone knew something bad happened there, but believed the quarantine is there fo protect rest of the world from disease. People were aware of the situation. And there was quarantine that affectively disable any kind of migration. What I say is, that if something like that happened, people who witnessed that would flee frome GeMiTo and the word would spread like the fire across European countries.
Also, Social media aree way ahead from current state, and you know, even with primitive facebook etc people were able to organize couple of revolutions in north africa despites government attempts to shut down the network and jam the communication. I dont believe those guys in Libya even had smartphones. On the oposite, commlink is a standard.
As for "free press"...well, you really believe, that there is such thing even today???
Seems lot of people believe in black and white scale of dystopian society: people are criminals/shadowrunners/revolutinars or sheeps. you are missing whole bunch of people between. I know it is easy and simple to imagine the shadowrun society like this. Well I`ve grew up in what would Orwell call fulfillment of his vision, and I can tell you, there is much more than those two types.

[Mirikon]

I meant Chicago, 2074. Life is still fragging awful in the former CZ, there are still warlords and bugs running around, not to mention clouds of FAB IIIb. And that's not even touching the drek that was going on in Chicago before the UB set up shop. The Shattergraves are still a bad place to be.

Basically, Chicago is a place that has been nasty for so long that most people would gladly pretend like it was on another planet, and would rather go 400 miles out of their way to get around it than going there. Anyone who actually goes there is obviously asking for whatever happens to them, since they didn't bother to stay in nice, safe places like corporate compounds.

But to bring it on a more 'close to home' example, how much do you think the people in Seattle really care about the absolute hellhole that is Redmond, except when Redmond's troubles overflow the boundaries, and start affecting them personally? Or we could look at LA before the walls came down. Pay no attention to the starving masses on the other side of the wall, we're busy getting in line for one of the rides at Virtual World Disney. I can go on, but the fact is that most people really don't care about problems that aren't affecting them, more than sending a pledge in when they see the commercials talking about starving kids in Africa, and how a dollar a day can save their life. They do that, feel good about themselves, and go back to worrying about their own, more immediate, problems.