Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Solo on <04-24-13/0858:01>
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Hello
i have a huge amount of gaps in my understanding of metaplots (actually, I only have a gap).
The question is as follows, the blood magic from the Aztechnology seems to hastened the coming of the horrors. If the Aztecs are such a threat, why don't the dragons and other major playors just destroy it? Great dragoons + a good bunch of immortal elves should be able to level the head quarters and branches in the major cities..
Thanks for the answers
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Here's the down and dirty answers.
1) Because in the Dragon Heart trilogy, the hastening has been halted by some serious events. I won't go into spoilers and I recommend reading the novels; they're a decent read.
2) Because as of the latest release, Storm Front, there's a whole lot of STUFF happening. Specifically, Aztechnology has developed and fielded a viable anti-dragon weapon called Blue-227. It was successfully used to defeat Sirrurg, albeit at great effort and cost to the Azzies. So I think for now they're going to play a "wait and see" game for a while.
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There's multiple things at work here:
1) Leveling buildings doesn't destroy a corporation. Especially not a corporation with a nation in its pocket. To destroy Aztechnology, you need to fight them as a corporation, not with direct violence.
2) Direct violence on that scale turns you into a major target. If the great dragons and immortal elves did such a thing, Omega Orders would follow, because if they can do it to one megacorp, they can do it to any mega they don't like. (Remember, the world at large knows nothing of the Horrors.)
3) Taking out Aztechnology won't solve the problem of who is guiding them. The Smoking Mirror will survive, even if the Azzies don't.
What this means is that the great dragons and immortal elves can't act openly without tipping their hand about the big bads down the road. And what do you think people's reactions will be if a bunch of dragons start sharing that kind of information? Because the dragons and immortal elves have hidden behind the veil of secrecy for so long, pulling back the curtain will cause as many problems as it might solve, and in the confusion the real troublemakers at AZT will slip through the cracks.
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Also, like it or not, AZT is a AAA-Corporation and a major part of the Corporate Court, a major power that even the Dragons have to respect. Yes, even Lofwyr.
AZT is doomed, but it'll be a dragon's game that does it. Likely, it'll just take (metahuman) generations.
Also, there is the possibility that a dragon is one of the forces in charge of AZT, which makes matters... Difficult under draconic society.
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Tackling the drain of a spell with blood magic or summoning a blood spirit actually do very little to hasten the arrival of Horrors. The ritual used by Daniel Coleman to perform the Ghost Dance, or whatever the blood mages did with the artifact called the Locus, really were significant events. After Harlequin and Dunkelzahn disrupted Darke plans, blood magic is more of a long-term threat (at least until yet another sinister plan is discovered).
Back in 2056, at the time of the Aztlan Sourcebook, the major Awakened players knew the Aztlaner practiced blood magic, but do not worry too much about it. They are still baffled to learn that the blood mages of Aztlan may know the real implication of they're doing. Only Dunkelzahn is slightly more knowledgeable, but he devoted a lot of time and resources to spy on Aztechnology, while having a seat on their board of directors. Dunkelzahn also suggests that Hualpa and other Amazonian dragons are well aware of Aztlan use of blood magic, but chose to stay silent about it, withholding information even from other Amazonian awakened (rather than recognizing that the knowledge of blood magic the feathered serpents taught to metahumanity to fight off the Horror during the Fourth World wasn't lost as they thought it would).
In 2057, Dunkelzahn put an halt to the early coming of Horrors. Darke is either dead or on the run. By 2061, the evil force behind Aztechnology maintained its hold on the board members, the remaining blood mages were only a small number of rather high-level Initiate (grade 8+) hiding from internal purge or deported.
At this point it would have made sense for dragons to consider Aztlan blood mages were no longer a major threat, because that was what SR authors wanted it to be! It was the Apep Consortium who was supposed to be the new front for Horrors.
But the blood mages of Aztlan have returned since, first during the Yucatan War, then at the highest level. The recent sourcebooks suggest blood mages are now again considered as an elite inside Aztechnology and Aztlan. During the Colombian War, one of the most secret unit of the Aztlan army was the Blood Daggers, with 30-40 blood mages, receiving their order directly from HQ, with a focus on eliminating Amazonian high-level initiates.
I can see the immortal elves from Tir Tairngire being more occupied by their own situation, Lofwyr wary that taking on Aztechnology would be interpreted as a move from Saeder-Krupp CEO and have geo-economical consequences. Ghostwalker would be the most willing to take on Aztechnology. Maybe he considered regenerating Zebulon/Yuichotol was his priority.
It's possible the great dragons actually consider the knowledge of blood magic by metahumanity in America is the concern of the feathered serpents who taught them in the first place, ie. Amazonia. Though it technically was triggered by Aztechnology, the Colombian War may actually be the first part of Hualpa and Sirrurg action to deal with the threat of blood magic.
It would shed a new light on Hestaby condemnation of Sirrurg war crimes. If other dragons said it was up to Hualpa, Sirrurg and their allies were to use any mean necessary to eliminate the Aztlan blood mages (a sort of Council Mandate), without setting any limit, it would be difficult to condemn Sirrurg action afterwards. That would explain why Hestaby didn't call a draconic meeting to discuss Sirrurg action first, and moved it to the UN instead.
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Great info. thanks a lot...
Where do you get all this?
Is there a source book with all this info?
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The info on Dunkelzhan putting a stop to the Horrors coming through is from the Dragonheart Trilogy novels.
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Not a single soursebook, I'm afraid. But here is some stuff to get you started...If I forgot something please speak up.
SR Sourcebooks:
Aztlan (2nd Ed?)
Threats (Info on Darke, 2nd Ed)
Street Magic (3rd Ed)
Novels:
Dragon Heart Saga by Jak Koke
Stranger Souls
Clockwork Asylum
Beyond the Pale
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The surviving Great Dragons of the Sixth World could not fathom the idea that within 46 years of the Awakening that concerted effort could bridge the gap, even factoring for the spike caused by the Great Ghost Dance.
Pride Goeth Before The Fall.
Personally, I'm glad to be done with that plot for all intents and purposes.
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Nine good reasons:
The Lords of the Night.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Nine good reasons:
The Lords of the Night.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Who?
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Nine good reasons:
The Lords of the Night.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Who?
Mesoamerican Night Lords.
Tlaloc, Tlazoteotl, Tepeyollotl, Centeotl, Itztli, Xiuhtecuhtli, Piltzintecuhtli, Chalchiuhtlicue, and Mictlantecuhtli.
I haven't read enough of the source material on Aztechnology to know if it's reflected in-game (I have the rare opportunity not to GM, so I'm staying out of everything but splatbooks), but if North Amerind "mythology" has proven functional enough for a Ghost Dance, I would put the Nine Lords of the Night firmly at the top of my "Do Not Annoy" list.
If they're not in game already, as Horrors, they should be.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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The dragons don't have a choice.
A viable, technological method for killing all dragons now exists. There's no reason to presume that Aztlan would not deploy this method at every opportunity. Granted, getting the cost down might take a few years, but eventually Aztlan will be capable of committing dragoncide. And there's no reason why they wouldn't. Dragons have a lot of enemies, so it's not like there will be a major outcry about the event.
Even if we presume that Aztlan, for whatever reasons, decides not to utilize their weapon...others will. Military secrets, as an alien once observed, are the most fleeting of all. Other corps, other countries, major private interests will either reverse-engineer the weapon, or steal the plans.
The dragons only hope of survival is to erase all plans, all extant examples, and every single person who knew anything about the construction of the weapon before it gets outside Aztlan. And hope that upcoming events happen before others manage to replicate the research. It's not a great hope...but when it's your only chance...
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Because if they do that I'll have to stop taking trips there to black-bag blood mages for bounties. 1,000,000 buys a sweet vacation package
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'cause even Dragons can't get enough Stuffers! :P
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About Hestaby action, even if Sirrurg is an ennemy, isn't Azzie a bigger threat for everyone? I mean, now they have this weapon, they could do the same to Hestaby, as far as we know it. So why favoring such actions against him? Because taking down a corp is easier than a fellow dragon?
What about draconic honor? Shouldn't they settle matter in person in the end, instead of using human pawns?
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Survival of the Fittest implies that dragon choose to use pawns as a preference, rather than direct confrontation.
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Survival of the Fittest implies that dragon choose to use pawns as a preference, rather than direct confrontation.
Pawns are cheap, and who knows, the Metahumans might get in a lucky shot. ;D
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I wanna hear more about these 9 lord of night. It wreaks of cultist potential. Time to break out some sourcebooks
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Because status quo is god, even more then super magical godzilla lizards. If there were not an aztechnology the writing team would have to invent a new one.
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Because status quo is god, even more then super magical godzilla lizards. If there were not an aztechnology the writing team would have to invent a new one.
Like that would be difficult.
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
You mean that isn't normal for Texans?
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Shall I remind you that Critias will be at Gen Con as well?
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Shall I remind you that Critias will be at Gen Con as well?
Good for him.
I won't be.
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Shall I remind you that Critias will be at Gen Con as well?
Good for him.
I won't be.
Yeah, because you are gonna be busy writing Fanfics :P (75 votes and climbing)
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
You mean that isn't normal for Texans?
Depends on your definition of Normal.
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
You mean that isn't normal for Texans?
Nah, only a yankee could think a dude from Iowa named Marion was a real cowboy.
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A Rhinestone Cowboy
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
You mean that isn't normal for Texans?
Nah, only a yankee could think a dude from Iowa named Marion was a real cowboy.
Or someone from outside of Alberta...
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Tex-Nology the John Wayne worshiping gun manufacturer from the CAS?
Rumor has it at night they put on chaps and conduct mysterious rituals involving tumble weeds.
You mean that isn't normal for Texans?
Nah, only a yankee could think a dude from Iowa named Marion was a real cowboy.
Or someone from outside of Alberta...
To a Texan anyone who lives north of Amarillo is a Yankee :)
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(http://assets.amuniversal.com/6a7867d0d84d0130fb3f001dd8b71c47)
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Perhaps, the other reason was that blood magic in itself isnt bad.
Blood magic was a common practice of the 4th world and not shunned at, even if Life magic was preferrred. What the dragon wanted to stop was the massive use of sacrificial magic at locus made specifically to help the horrors cross.
As other pointed out, the Great Ghost Dance did as much damage... Of course, there the indians were directly taught by an half-horror.
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Nine good reasons:
The Lords of the Night.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Who?
Mesoamerican Night Lords.
Tlaloc, Tlazoteotl, Tepeyollotl, Centeotl, Itztli, Xiuhtecuhtli, Piltzintecuhtli, Chalchiuhtlicue, and Mictlantecuhtli.
I haven't read enough of the source material on Aztechnology to know if it's reflected in-game (I have the rare opportunity not to GM, so I'm staying out of everything but splatbooks), but if North Amerind "mythology" has proven functional enough for a Ghost Dance, I would put the Nine Lords of the Night firmly at the top of my "Do Not Annoy" list.
If they're not in game already, as Horrors, they should be.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Not horror... But definitely passions material. Gods of old summoned by the people faith to come to their help.
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Even Dragons have to eat, and someone has to make Jiffy-Pop. ;D
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Silly CanRay - Aztechnology doesn't make Jiffy-Pop.
Everyone is involved with Jiffy-Pop. Ares makes the handle, S-K the 'pot', Renraku the lid; Evo grows the corn, Wuxing makes the oil. Horizon does the advertising, NeoNET handles the ordering, MCT does the package assembly, and Shiawase does the shipping - to your local Aztechnology-owned Stuffer Shack who sells it.
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Unless it's been stated otherwise, the DF is the trustee of the Jiffy Pop IP. I'm assuming it was licensed to Ares by Daviar to make money for herself.
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Silly CanRay - Aztechnology doesn't make Jiffy-Pop.
Everyone is involved with Jiffy-Pop. Ares makes the handle, S-K the 'pot', Renraku the lid; Evo grows the corn, Wuxing makes the oil. Horizon does the advertising, NeoNET handles the ordering, MCT does the package assembly, and Shiawase does the shipping - to your local Aztechnology-owned Stuffer Shack who sells it.
There is no damn way that many goddamn megacorps are going to cooperate to that degree.
I don't care if Ghostwalker threatened to sit on all of them, that barghest won't hunt. These guys pay professional murderhobos to go kill and steal from eachother for frag's sake.
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I agree. The only things you'll find that many megas all in one place together are ZOG, GOD, and the Corporate Court. And we all know how much infighting there is there.
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::)
Obviously, then, Jiffy-Pop is a product of the Corporate Court.
... geez, Canti, you really can't see a joke when it bites you on the ass, can you?
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::)
Obviously, then, Jiffy-Pop is a product of the Corporate Court.
... geez, Canti, you really can't see a joke when it bites you on the ass, can you?
I can, but first it has to be funny.