Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Nightmare on <03-11-16/1353:31>
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Just saw the commlink dongles in Data Trail...anyone know if those can be added to cyberware/internal commlinks? Got a PC who wants to add one to his character's internal commlink and I'm not sure if he can or not...
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RAW? Probably not, since there's really no reason for an internal commlink to have a UDP. This almost makes me miss the old router cyberware, but I'd probably allow a player to take a dedicated datajack to act as a UDP, although having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
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I would think that an internal commlink would still have an access port or at least that it would be an option. I would think it would work like a external magazine for a cyber gun though so the dongle would be sticking out of your head or arm or wherever you have the commlink installed.
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If they're small enough they could be able to slot inside like a memory card for smartphones/tablets.
Also, let's not forget the utility of a stun dongle on the forehead. ;D
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I'd say yes; even an internal commlink may need service, so it makes sense that it's accessible enough that a dongle could be added relatively easily.
Alternatively, just get an Internal Router and something to plug the dongle into...
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Every time I hear people talking about internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks, I just picture Data from TNG.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/e/ef/Data's_modifications.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140518162838&path-prefix=en)
The human skull has evolved to be a "skin tight" jar for your grey matter, and very little else. There's not a whole lot of room in there to fit a smartphone with a USB thumb drive sticking out of the side. And that is what we're talking about here, when they refer to "dongle".
(http://www.blogginghits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Install-internet-data-card-dongle.png)
We're not talking about a fleck of sand, we're talking about another component that adds a significant amount of function to your device. You're taking your ordinary smartphone, plugging in a Stealth Dongle, and turning it into a competitor for an Alienware laptop full of expensive hacking tools and software. That's going to require a little bit more room than a grain of rice.
Furthermore, I don't think internal implants come with access ports ala Star Trek unless you also invested in a Cyber Skull. That's why the book cautions against anything less than DR 5 being implanted. They cite security reasons, which means they want to avoid your cheap Commlink getting hacked and someone flooding your visual cortex with pop-up advertisements. If the implant were easy to get to, you wouldn't need to worry about security b/c you could just jam a finger in your ear and turn it off.
So... for my 2 cents, I don't think internal Commlinks can support Dongles. You opted to have it internalized for concealment and portability, the trade off is lack of customization and difficulty of repair. If it gets bricked, you'll need a Geek Squad surgeon to get in there and fix it for you.
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The human skull has evolved to be a "skin tight" jar for your grey matter, and very little else. There's not a whole lot of room in there to fit a smartphone with a USB thumb drive sticking out of the side. And that is what we're talking about here, when they refer to "dongle".
(http://i.imgur.com/bMiDMFl.png)
Ya I cant possibly fathom where you could fit a commlink with a dongle >.>
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RAW? Probably not.
I'm not sure how you define RAW after reading that.
In any case; consider the characters with shiny sticking out of, or replacing, their facemeat. Look at all that fleshy space around the skull. There's room. Some people here just don't want there to be.
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Yeah, you're thinking in today's technology and not factoring in how technology miniaturizes over time. Take removable storage for example; I have a Micro SD chip right next to me that holds 16 GB of data. Less than a decade ago, a USB flash drive was at least 20x that size, and only held about 128 MB worth of data. I just picked up a new computer that has an integrated graphics chip that is almost as good as the best graphics card I have. Add in that for many years scientists have been implanting chips in the brains of people with paralysis, allowing them to remotely access computers and give them basic functionality with those computers. Where do you think they'll be at 61 years from now?
Just because commlinks might be bulky doesn't mean that they can't miniaturize the technology. After all, they don't need the flashy case or other eye candy the package them in; they just need the bare minimum electronics. Shrinking that down for them should be no more difficult than computer companies that take a graphics card for a desktop, and shrink it down to fit in the limited space of a laptop.
That's all beside the point though, really; it's a science/fantasy FICTION setting, whose timeline has already diverged rather massively from our own several years ago. Trying to apply current technological limits to that is rather silly. That being said, since a dongle doesn't get built into the commlink like other mods, I would most definitely make the player have a dongle sticking out of their head if they wanted to do this! ;D
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Just regarding comlink size I always imagine at least part of it is to make room on the screen for human fingers afterall you have mages, children, poor people and others who for one reason or another aren't going to be able/want to use a smartlink e.g paranoid about that direct link and runners so most comlink are made large enough you can actually use it without a datalink since most of those who do have a link will also have an implanted comlink with no need for a screen.
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although having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Not if you weave it through a braid or some rasta-style dreads.
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although having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Not if you weave it through a braid or some rasta-style dreads.
;D
(http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/talk-like-a-pirate-day-jack-sparrow.jpg)
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although having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Not if you weave it through a braid or some rasta-style dreads.
;D
(http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/talk-like-a-pirate-day-jack-sparrow.jpg)
And now I'm seeing the amalgamation of Jack Sparrow and Kane... dear GOD that is a terrifying prospect.
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Furthermore, I don't think internal implants come with access ports ala Star Trek unless you also invested in a Cyber Skull. That's why the book cautions against anything less than DR 5 being implanted. They cite security reasons, which means they want to avoid your cheap Commlink getting hacked and someone flooding your visual cortex with pop-up advertisements. If the implant were easy to get to, you wouldn't need to worry about security b/c you could just jam a finger in your ear and turn it off.
So... for my 2 cents, I don't think internal Commlinks can support Dongles. You opted to have it internalized for concealment and portability, the trade off is lack of customization and difficulty of repair. If it gets bricked, you'll need a Geek Squad surgeon to get in there and fix it for you.
I can't support this interpretation. If the intent was "you can never access the commlink after it's implanted short of surgery," that sure as shit needs to be something that's explicitly stated.
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Furthermore, I don't think internal implants come with access ports ala Star Trek unless you also invested in a Cyber Skull. That's why the book cautions against anything less than DR 5 being implanted. They cite security reasons, which means they want to avoid your cheap Commlink getting hacked and someone flooding your visual cortex with pop-up advertisements. If the implant were easy to get to, you wouldn't need to worry about security b/c you could just jam a finger in your ear and turn it off.
So... for my 2 cents, I don't think internal Commlinks can support Dongles. You opted to have it internalized for concealment and portability, the trade off is lack of customization and difficulty of repair. If it gets bricked, you'll need a Geek Squad surgeon to get in there and fix it for you.
I can't support this interpretation. If the intent was "you can never access the commlink after it's implanted short of surgery," that sure as shit needs to be something that's explicitly stated.
+1
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Wholeheartedly agreed, Whiskeyjack.
Given that the Repairing Matrix Damage section of both the core book and Data Trails does not list any special tests for repairing a damaged internal commlink, it would be house rule territory to introduce such. By RAW, you can fix even an internal cyberdeck or commlink with just a hardware toolkit and some time.
ETA:
I think the Data Lock is far more appropriate for people who want to keep data secure in headware, as it is described as effectively turning the person it is installed in into a "walking data safe". An implanted commlink, to my mind then, isn't mean to function like a data lock, it's merely a communications device that you always have with you and that provides both DNI and a sim module.
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Ya I always ruled the internal commlink can be accessed by a slide out mount to be repaired replaced with stronger more powerful commlink.
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I'd imagine so as well there's way to many times you'd need to access a comlink repairs, upgrades, modifications for an implanted comlink/cyberdeck to need surgery to repair. I imagine the surgery is to install the connections/access not any specific comlink.
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If the internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks are so readily accessible, then what's the point? It's one thing to be super covert and have a Cyberdeck hidden away that nobody can take away from you. If tugging on your ear lobe causes it to eject out the side of your neck, then your captors are still going to take it away.
And if everybody thinks that technology is just going to keep getting smaller and smaller that there's no worry about fitting anything, then why aren't all these things little tiny grains of rice you just get injected and forget about entirely? Why are Cyberdecks described as a Tablet sized piece of equipment, when they should obviously be a fleck of sand in the corner of your eye. You should be able to stash a million nu¥en worth of Fairlight merchandise on the head of a pin.
Or... you give your players options, trade-offs, and ramifications for choosing one thing over the other. If you want an easily concealed device implanted, then the trade-off is that it's not readily accessible, and you can't really walk around with a USB thumb drive sticking out your ear. If you want to have something easily modified and adapted, you're gonna need to keep it in your backpack instead.
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If the internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks are so readily accessible, then what's the point? It's one thing to be super covert and have a Cyberdeck hidden away that nobody can take away from you. If tugging on your ear lobe causes it to eject out the side of your neck, then your captors are still going to take it away.
And if everybody thinks that technology is just going to keep getting smaller and smaller that there's no worry about fitting anything, then why aren't all these things little tiny grains of rice you just get injected and forget about entirely? Why are Cyberdecks described as a Tablet sized piece of equipment, when they should obviously be a fleck of sand in the corner of your eye. You should be able to stash a million nu¥en worth of Fairlight merchandise on the head of a pin.
Or... you give your players options, trade-offs, and ramifications for choosing one thing over the other. If you want an easily concealed device implanted, then the trade-off is that it's not readily accessible, and you can't really walk around with a USB thumb drive sticking out your ear. If you want to have something easily modified and adapted, you're gonna need to keep it in your backpack instead.
1: no-one is saying this.
2: They're so big because they have multiple input modes including a touch screen... strip them back so that the only I/O is DNI and Simsense and you'll save a ton of space, most of that in the screen itself!
3: No-one is saying that it's "Easy" only in that it doesn't require cybersurgery levels of skill.
Also, there's never any desription of the size, they could be the size of your wireless mouse/wifi/whatever reciever, in which case they should be able to go into an internalized port quite easily.
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RAW, cybertechnology can be used to modify or upgrade cybernetics in a cyberlimb.
Otherwise all implantation, modification or removal is medicine skill.
Why would an implanted Commlink be different than any other cybernetics?
If a Commink comes in and out as easily as some implied, that should be implicitly stated as it would be an exception.
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RAW, cybertechnology can be used to modify or upgrade cybernetics in a cyberlimb.
Otherwise all implantation, modification or removal is medicine skill.
Why would an implanted Commlink be different than any other cybernetics?
If a Commink comes in and out as easily as some implied, that should be implicitly stated as it would be an exception.
On the other hand, repairing a Cyberdeck or Comlink is generally stated as using Hardware skill. However the implanted ones have no mention of requiring Cybertechnology, thus providing no specific rules of their own to override general rule.
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RAW, cybertechnology can be used to modify or upgrade cybernetics in a cyberlimb.
Otherwise all implantation, modification or removal is medicine skill.
Why would an implanted Commlink be different than any other cybernetics?
If a Commink comes in and out as easily as some implied, that should be implicitly stated as it would be an exception.
On the other hand, repairing a Cyberdeck or Comlink is generally stated as using Hardware skill. However the implanted ones have no mention of requiring Cybertechnology, thus providing no specific rules of their own to override general rule.
other than the fact that it's implanted- which is why I don't implant cyberdecks/comlinks inside my body.
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If the internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks are so readily accessible, then what's the point?
What is the point indeed; it's not real clear as far as I'm concerned.
The obvious benefit is that an implanted commlink comes with a sim module and grants DNI (not just DNI, but SUPER DNI). An implied benefit is that you can't exactly forget or lose your implanted commlink easily.
If you want to keep data safe as a covert operative, however, an implanted commlink or deck is not the answer; that's where the Data Lock comes in with it's Rating 12 maximum. That's not to say that an implanted commlink isn't necessarily covert; since you've got DNI you can turn it off with a thought, making it much harder to find. If you're captured and have access to information on your link that your captors want, all it takes is a millimeter wave scanner and a hit or two to locate it, and nothing is stopping a dedicated attacker from just pulling that thing out with a pair of pliers if they don't care about your health.
So for me, the risks of an implanted commlink requiring surgery to remove in order to perform basic maintenance and or repair far outweighs the benefits of having it be removable from an in-game perspective. It just makes more sense to me that it's the latter, not the former. Your mileage may vary.
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If you want to keep data safe as a covert operative, however, an implanted commlink or deck is not the answer; that's where the Data Lock comes in with it's Rating 12 maximum.
You just gave me an idea - take a rating twelve data lock, and install a persona firmware module in it. You'll need to figure out how to connect to it (and establish wireless connection), but otherwise it may be the most impregnable persona option yet.
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Or a Program Carrier so you can run an Agent on it. You'll literally have voices in your head! :D
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I'd imagine so as well there's way to many times you'd need to access a comlink repairs, upgrades, modifications for an implanted comlink/cyberdeck to need surgery to repair. I imagine the surgery is to install the connections/access not any specific comlink.
Ya its called the hardware skill
If tugging on your ear lobe causes it to eject out the side of your neck, then your captors are still going to take it away.
Right cause your captors automatically know your personal secret way to access your own personal commlink
And if everybody thinks that technology is just going to keep getting smaller and smaller that there's no worry about fitting anything, then why aren't all these things little tiny grains of rice you just get injected and forget about entirely?
Those are RFID tags
Why are Cyberdecks described as a Tablet sized piece of equipment,
To be accessable to non AR users
If you want an easily concealed device implanted, then the trade-off is that it's not readily accessible, and you can't really walk around with a USB thumb drive sticking out your ear. If you want to have something easily modified and adapted, you're gonna need to keep it in your backpack instead.
Or disguise it as an ear ring or any other piece of wearable usb technology that we have available today *drops mic
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Looks like I've found a spot that Catalyst needs to look into and maybe set up some rules for....didn't expect that....
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On a related note,
what are your opinions on weapon commlinks and dongles?
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If tugging on your ear lobe causes it to eject out the side of your neck, then your captors are still going to take it away.
Right cause your captors automatically know your personal secret way to access your own personal commlink
Why would you need some secret hand jive to open it/eject something? It's a DNI link.
Anyway, RAW, implanted Commlinks and Cyberdecks can be worked on the same as any other Commlink or Cyberdeck. Matrix damage is repairable by a Hardware check, doesn't matter what device, implanted or not. Implanted Cyberdecks and Commlinks can have Mods or Dongles or whatever the same as the non-implanted ones. Houserule if you want, but RAW, implanted or not they're the treated the same for repairing, accessorizing, or modding.
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Lemme ask you guys this... what do you call for to repair bricked Wired Reflexes? They're a cyberware implant buried deep beneath the skin, wired into the nerves and muscles throughout your body. They obviously took a lengthy and involved cybersurgery to install, and there's no real word in the book as to what "bricking" entails and whether than means some single tiny component needs mended or whether it means every relay at every nerve cluster, basically every pressure point, will need repaired.
Do you think it's just a Hardware check without any worry of getting to the implant first? Or is there going to be something more involved?
Now back to the Commlink / Cyberdeck, buried deep inside your grey matter, or at least very near to it. It comes with DNI out of the package, which means its circuitry is interlaces with all the important bits of your noodle. And explain to me why you think this one should be any easier to get to? Other than "Well, Data Trails gave us new toys to fuck up hacking and Matrix rules in general, and we want that to be extra easy to implement."
The repair rules that call for a simple Hardware check, are pretty obviously talking about a device lying on the workbench. Not one buried inside somebody. And certainly not one buried inside yourself.
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So basically you're saying you MUST use the Cybertechnology skill because that's the general rule and the implanted Comlink and Cyberdeck say nothing specific to break that.
Meanwhile we're saying you use the Hardware skill because the general rule is repairing Comlinks and Cyberdecks uses that skill, and the Implanted versions say nothing specific to break that.
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So basically you're saying you MUST use the Cybertechnology skill because that's the general rule and the implanted Comlink and Cyberdeck say nothing specific to break that.
Meanwhile we're saying you use the Hardware skill because the general rule is repairing Comlinks and Cyberdecks uses that skill, and the Implanted versions say nothing specific to break that.
Purely "by the book" you would use Cybertech.
Core pg 145, Medicine.
Medicine is used to perform advanced medical procedures such as surgeries. It includes long-term medical support for disease and illness, and the skill can be used to diagnose a character’s medical condition. This skill is used to implant or remove cybernetics and bioware but cannot be used to repair or maintain implanted devices.
Core pg 144, Cybertechnology
Cybertechnology is the ability to create, maintain, and repair cybernetic parts. A character with the proper tools and parts may repair or even build new cybernetics.
Now you could test twice... once to gain access to the implanted Comm/Deck, and once to repair it.
Or you could average the scores and test once, reflecting your overall skill at performing the complex task of accessing and repairing.
Nothing in the rules suggests that implanted Comms and Decks are so easily accessible as others in this thread have suggested. Mainly b/c nothing in the rules covers implanted Comms and Decks specifically in any regard. But it's pretty damned Munchkin to point at the lack of very case specific rulings and come back saying "Well, the rules don't say that I can't wield an Apache helicopter in each hand!!!"
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Nothing in the rules suggests that implanted Comms and Decks are so easily accessible as others in this thread have suggested. Mainly b/c nothing in the rules covers implanted Comms and Decks specifically in any regard. But it's pretty damned Munchkin to point at the lack of very case specific rulings and come back saying "Well, the rules don't say that I can't wield an Apache helicopter in each hand!!!"
Just as nothing in the rules suggests that implanted Comms and Decks are any harder to repair than regular ones.
Also, piss off with straw man munchkin arguments. I'm not arguing anything of the sort, I just find it unreasonable that for something a regular as repairing Matrix damage to a Cyberdeck you basically need a cyberware clinic to take the thing out, THEn use Hardware skill to repair THEN basically needing a clinic to put it back in again.
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Can we all keep this civil? This is a subject that affects one of my PCs, so getting some type of answer to this all is more prefered to locking the thread. Just saying...keep it civil and all.
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Nothing in the rules suggests that implanted Comms and Decks are so easily accessible as others in this thread have suggested. Mainly b/c nothing in the rules covers implanted Comms and Decks specifically in any regard. But it's pretty damned Munchkin to point at the lack of very case specific rulings and come back saying "Well, the rules don't say that I can't wield an Apache helicopter in each hand!!!"
Just as nothing in the rules suggests that implanted Comms and Decks are any harder to repair than regular ones.
Also, piss off with straw man munchkin arguments. I'm not arguing anything of the sort, I just find it unreasonable that for something a regular as repairing Matrix damage to a Cyberdeck you basically need a cyberware clinic to take the thing out, THEn use Hardware skill to repair THEN basically needing a clinic to put it back in again.
You are absolutely arguing precisely that situation. Everyone in this thread is saying that in the absence of very case specific rulings, they're going to opt for the more convenient interpretation which benefits them the most in every way possible.
You're saying that it's just as easy for you to change the battery or SIM card on your cell phone lying on the desk... as it is for someone to remove an implanted Commlink buried inside their head by a cybersurgeon, so they can do the same thing.
Are the two devices comparable once they're both laid out on the table? Of course they are, they're both Commlinks.
Are they equally accessible at any given moment of the day or night? Absolutely not!
If it took a Cybersurgeon to get it in there, it's not just going to come out spring loaded at the push of a button. And if it did, it would take away any benefit to having it inside your head to begin with. Nothing in the book says anything about a DNI-only accessible eject button (which someone suggested earlier as a security precaution against forced removal). And even if there were such a feature, we're talking about repairing a device after it's been bricked... when it ceases to acknowledge DNI or any other form of interface. So there needs to be an external means of removing it if anyone is going to start making repairs. And if there is an external means, then it's only a Google search away for someone to find out how to take it out. You can,after all, look up all sorts of things like how to Root your smartphone, or how to factory default a router and what the default user name and passwords will be afterwards.
If someone kidnaps you and discovers you have a Comm inside your head, they're going to do a quick Matrix search to see what the manual says about how to extract it (tweak their nose up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right...) and they're going to take it away. Unless you treat it like a real implant, which would require surgery to access and remove. Convenient access is going to be convenient for you and for the guy taking it away from you. Complex access is going to make it safer, but also harder to modify later on. That's the trade-off.
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Lemme ask you guys this... what do you call for to repair bricked Wired Reflexes?
Stupid for turning wireless on when there was a decker near by
Seriously is there even rules for removing cyberware or repairing it?
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Right so somehow thinking that needing a cyberclinic te repair something as common as Matrix damage to a Cyberdeck is perhaps unreasonable suddenly becomes me wanting to dual wield attack helicopters "because the book says I can't"
And the MAIN thing I've been saying is the argument is fruitless since both sides can claim "general rue with no superseding specific rule."
You need Hardware skill to repair Matrix Damage to a Comlink/Cyberdeck.
You need Cybertechnology to repair Cybernetics.
The issue IS that Implanted Comlink/Cyberdeck falls squarely into both categories with nothing to say which supersedes what.
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I wrote a lenghty explanation and a few examples but then I just realized it's all for naught.
In my opinion, and it might be wrong, you need cybertech to remove/install a modification, such as that commlink. Then, with the commlink removed, you need to use hardware skill to fix it.
So in short, you need both, IMO.
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Yet another topic where the rules need interpretation. So the answer to this question is, as with so many others: ask your GM.
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Seriously is there even rules for removing cyberware or repairing it?
Sort of.
The downside of these augmentations is that the cyber or bioware associated with the complimentary genetics becomes more integral to the body systems, and thus harder to remove or replace. Doing so costs ten percent of the initial cost of the cyber or bioware.
This only implies other rules though, clarification would be much appreciated.
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Lemme ask you guys this... what do you call for to repair bricked Wired Reflexes?
I use RAW a Hardware test per the rules on repairing Matrix damage.
If it's Missions Play I don't even do that. It just fixes itself during downtime, no skill checks or costs required.
At no point in time have the developers ever stated you need anything more than a Hardware test. There is nothing that states you need surgery or recovery time to plug in a dongle or a mod or repair Matrix damage. You can house rule however you want, but RAW is very simple. And given the even simpler rules for Missions play, I'd think developer intent is pretty clear.
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Seriously is there even rules for removing cyberware or repairing it?
Not really. There are some general removal rules but nothing specifically for repairing installed Cyberware. The only damage Cyberware is expected to take is Matrix damage and that is fixed with a Hardware test. There are no rules covering repair of damaged Cyberware. Because their are no rules for Cyberware taking Physical Damage. And Matrix Damage is covered by a Hardware test.
Again, everyone here is free to houserule however you want. But RAW is real simple, Hardware test to fix Matrix Damage. Done.
Physical Damage and Matrix Damage are two different things. Objects have different Physical and Matrix tracks, damaging and repairing those tracks are covered by completely different mechanics.
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Guess it makes sense, just like how you use first aid regardless if you get shot in the throat or somewhere else that you need major surgery to extract the bullet just a simple first aid test
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On a related note,
what are your opinions on weapon commlinks and dongles?
From what I've read, dongles should be able to be attached to weapon commlinks with little to know problem because the weapon acts as an external commlink. I mean, you can hook into the weapon via a datajack so I see no reason for you not being able to attach a dongle to it.
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Guess it makes sense, just like how you use first aid regardless if you get shot in the throat or somewhere else that you need major surgery to extract the bullet just a simple first aid test
Core pg 144, First Aid
First Aid is the ability to provide emergency medical assistance similar to that of a paramedic. This skill may be used to stabilize wounds and prevent characters from dying. First Aid cannot be used to perform surgery or repair damaged implants.
Also, Core pg 205-208 talk about the various forms of Healing and recovery, and include rules for using Medicine in surgical cases.
Having actually taken Combat Lifesaver courses I can tell you, there's a big difference between applying a dressing or a quick tourniquet, and actually performing surgery to remove a bullet. Like the skill says, you're a paramedic. They don't cut people open and start digging out rounds in the back of the ambulance. They save that for the real doctors at the hospital. And if it comes down to digging bullets out after the fight, you'd be making Medicine checks, not First Aid. Or if the GM feels gracious, they could let you try and ply your First Aid skill with a penalty (as per Substituting Skills pg 130).
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Yeah oddly I think both sides of this argument are right, in that it's clear reading skill descriptions fixing any cybernetic implant would require Cybertech.
On the other hand from an actual play perspective Hardware makes more sense and is more "balanced" imho.
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ust wanted to ask how people treat upgrading. That is assuming you don't get the very best comlink or deck implanted to start with how do you upgrade. Is it just buy the new one and swap over or is it buy the new one, pay to have the old one removed then pay to have the new one implanted?
If like me you assume you only pay the implanting cost once and the technology is easy to swap on a like for like basis e.g comlink for comlink, deck for deck you'd also need to allow for easy removal for repairs and just because pull both ears then push the nose causes it to eject doesnt mean the port isn't covered with synthetic skin and looks like it isn't there.
On the other hand if you assume it can only be accessed via cubersurgey then you'd only ever want the very newest deck or comlink because of the costs in time, surgery risk and money any time a newer model came our. Want the Z3 compact instead of the Z1 you need surgery to remove the z1 and install the z3 that's two operations and the costs for each.
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We treat upgrading rather simply; buy the new device, pop it in. We've houseruled that you you essentially have to buy the miniaturized versions with no screen, so you couldn't just pick up SOTA commlink off of your enemy and poke it into your head unless you had the Hardware and successfully disassembled it.
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Which would be the same as pop out damaged comlink, repair and reinsert
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Indeed; that's how we treat implanted commlinks and decks. That's mostly based on Aaron's "the implant is the slot, deck/commlink purchased separately" reading.
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We treat upgrading rather simply; buy the new device, pop it in. We've houseruled that you you essentially have to buy the miniaturized versions with no screen, so you couldn't just pick up SOTA commlink off of your enemy and poke it into your head unless you had the Hardware and successfully disassembled it.
I don't think disassembling it is going to produce parts small enough, especially a cyberdeck.. That's just me-YMMV.
And if you go with the pop in/pop out- what skill is used to replace the cyberdeck/commlink...if any?
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No skill needed at our table; we treat it like attaching a silencer to a weapon, i.e. a complex action to pop it out, and another complex action to slot it back in. Total houserule territory, and it's only ever come up once or twice, but there you have it. The same character also has a Rating 12 data lock for the information he really wants kept safe.
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Indeed; that's how we treat implanted commlinks and decks. That's mostly based on Aaron's "the implant is the slot, deck/commlink purchased separately" reading.
Yeah, there is pretty much two schools of thought on Internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks. One is the "install a slot in your skull" that lets you pop in and out the device and treat it essentially like a cyber holster or smuggling compartment. The other is "You need Surgery to do anything with any implanted devices" Not a lot of middle ground. Pick what works for your table, carry on. Given that the writers and developers are likely split between the two options themselves I doubt we'll ever see anything better than Aaron's post as to intent.
If you've played the Hare Brained Schemes Shadowrun Hong Kong there is some dialog there where the main character is talking with someone with an implanted deck. One of the dialog options is to make fun of the guy for needing to get surgery constantly to get the latest deck upgrades. So, it's clearly not clear. ;)
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It's also 2050s, so hopefully tech evolved to solve that issue.
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Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.
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Or creative use of Custom Form Factor. Gets you the same thing, a Commlink or Cyberdeck that can get through a search.
My Samurai has her Nixdorf installed in a combat harness.
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Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.
The difference is called DNI.
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Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.
The difference is called DNI.
and what's the difference between a smuggler compartment with a datajack hooked up to a commlink with a simrig?
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Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.
The difference is called DNI.
and what's the difference between a smuggler compartment with a datajack hooked up to a commlink with a simrig?
Situation A - Implant
- Implanted Commlink = 0.2 Essence cost / 2 Capacity, 2,000¥ + cost of Commlink (TOTAL)
- Implanted commlinks automatically give you a Direct Neural Interface (Core pg 222) allowing you to interface with other devices remotely. This means you don't need to purchase a Datajack (unless you want the Noise Reduction) or wear Trodes to relay mental commands.
- Implanted commlinks come with a Sim Module which is not the same as a Sim Rig, not even remotely. Sim Modules are like a graphics card, allowing the user to experience high resolution VR affecting all 5 senses instead of ordinary DNI only providing AR audio and video. Sim Rigs are for recording your sensations and allowing people to play them back later.
- Assuming you treat it LIKE ANY OTHER IMPLANT WOULD BE TREATED, it requires cybersurgery to access. Which makes it difficult to repair, but also difficult to take away from you.
Situation B - Pockets 'n Stuff
- Datajack for DNI = 0.1 Essence, 1,000¥
- Smuggling Compartment = 0.2 Essence / 2 Capacity, 7,500¥
- Commlink = normal price + 100¥ Sim Module
TOTAL = 0.3 Essence / 0.1 Essence + 2 Capacity, 8,600¥ + cost of Commlink
- Datajack grants DNI.
- Commlink still has Sim Module
- Smuggling Compartments aren't "impenetrable", they just have a high bonus to Concealment. If someone knows you have the commlink hidden somewhere, they will eventually find the pocket. And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.
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Implanted Commlink or Cyberdeck is found with a Cyberscanner. Smuggling Compartment or whatever is found with Perception or a Cyberscanner. You're changing what dice roll the GM needs to spot it. Although I'd argue that a Cyberscanner is a touch more uncommon than a Perception skill. : )
Commlink in a Skin Pocket would be awful hard to spot if you were wireless off.
The advantage of the implanted version is it's less Nuyen, and you don't have to physically access it to turn the wireless back on (DNI).
The advantage of the Skin Pocket or Smuggling Compartment is you could use it for something else if the Commlink doesn't need to be hidden.
Clever use of custom form factor and Palming skill saves essence, but is likely the easiest to spot.
But, yes, if you're at a table where cybersurgery is deemed necessary to swap around an implanted Commlink, get a Skin Pocket or Smuggling Compartment and carry on. Cyberdeck is borderline if it fits in a Smuggling Compartment. Tablet vs Light Pistol? That's awful close. Custom Form Factor Cyberdeck "Fits in my Skin Pocket" : ) And hey, you save Essence! : )
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And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.
Vs just cutting it out... cause if it isn't running silent and it won't if it doesn't have a sleaze rating which you can only get with either a commlink with sleaze rating in it or dongle which is the whole purpose of this thread which leads us back to just a skin pocket with a datajack
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And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.
Vs just cutting it out... cause if it isn't running silent and it won't if it doesn't have a sleaze rating which you can only get with either a commlink with sleaze rating in it or dongle which is the whole purpose of this thread which leads us back to just a skin pocket with a datajack
Any device can attempt to Run Silent. It's Logic + Sleaze, so having a Sleaze rating makes it more likely to hide. But it isn't a Sleaze action, so it doesn't "require" Sleaze.
And if your intention is to have a device concealed and undetectable if you're caught or captured... it's a Free action to trigger all your devices to deactivate wireless functions. If you had a Commlink in your belly button, you'd have to fish it back out and re-enable wireless after the threat has passed. If you have an implanted Commlink, you can always mentally turn it back on.
Core pg 451, Augmentation
Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the “moving parts” are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality is active.
You can't make phone calls or surf the Matrix with the wireless turned off, but you'll be safe from hackers. And it's just a thought to turn all that back on later.
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...having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Dongle Dreadlocks!
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And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.
Vs just cutting it out... cause if it isn't running silent and it won't if it doesn't have a sleaze rating which you can only get with either a commlink with sleaze rating in it or dongle which is the whole purpose of this thread which leads us back to just a skin pocket with a datajack
Any device can attempt to Run Silent. It's Logic + Sleaze, so having a Sleaze rating makes it more likely to hide. But it isn't a Sleaze action, so it doesn't "require" Sleaze.
And if your intention is to have a device concealed and undetectable if you're caught or captured... it's a Free action to trigger all your devices to deactivate wireless functions. If you had a Commlink in your belly button, you'd have to fish it back out and re-enable wireless after the threat has passed. If you have an implanted Commlink, you can always mentally turn it back on.
Core pg 451, Augmentation
Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the “moving parts” are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality is active.
You can't make phone calls or surf the Matrix with the wireless turned off, but you'll be safe from hackers. And it's just a thought to turn all that back on later.
same with a skinpocket with a datajack inside
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I'm in the camp that it doesn't require cyber surgery to repair and internal cyber deck or commlink. Why? Because the setting falls apart if you can't. Matrix damage is common enough (not saying that it's an everyday thing, but it does happen) that if you can't repair it with a simple hardware test then no one would run wireless on for their cyberware.
Anyway, it's cyberware. A device, technology, hardware. It's meant to be maintained. It's not meant to be invisible. When you're cybered up, you can see it, which means it'll have access panels and ways to make it easy to maintain it.
For something like wired reflexes, I'd assume there would be a base control unit, I'm imagining at the base of the neck, which acts as a fail safe. If your wired reflexes get bricked the panel on the back of your neck explodes and suddenly you have to use those old meat neurons to send signals to the rest of your body. But say once you're out of combat, your friendly decker or someone with hardware, can go pop open the panel and swap out whatever fuse ignited in your wired reflexes to return functionality.
Similar, a cyber deck in your head, like the Mr. Data analogy already used, is how I see cyberdecks. Not a complete cyber skull, but replacing a part of your skull with a deck. Can you pop it out and work on it with your hands...I actually think it'd be cooler to use a series of mirrors or a drone by remote to repair it, but either way, I don't think it requires going under the knife.
It doesn't make sense that they'd make cyberware impossible to maintain unless you go into the cutting board every time. The cost seem insanely expensive. Then wireless on has a double cost, not only can you lose the ware, but you have to pay through the nose and find a street doc. That's ridiculous.
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I'm in the camp that it doesn't require cyber surgery to repair and internal cyber deck or commlink. Why? Because the setting falls apart if you can't. Matrix damage is common enough (not saying that it's an everyday thing, but it does happen) that if you can't repair it with a simple hardware test then no one would run wireless on for their cyberware.
Anyway, it's cyberware. A device, technology, hardware. It's meant to be maintained. It's not meant to be invisible. When you're cybered up, you can see it, which means it'll have access panels and ways to make it easy to maintain it.
For something like wired reflexes, I'd assume there would be a base control unit, I'm imagining at the base of the neck, which acts as a fail safe. If your wired reflexes get bricked the panel on the back of your neck explodes and suddenly you have to use those old meat neurons to send signals to the rest of your body. But say once you're out of combat, your friendly decker or someone with hardware, can go pop open the panel and swap out whatever fuse ignited in your wired reflexes to return functionality.
Similar, a cyber deck in your head, like the Mr. Data analogy already used, is how I see cyberdecks. Not a complete cyber skull, but replacing a part of your skull with a deck. Can you pop it out and work on it with your hands...I actually think it'd be cooler to use a series of mirrors or a drone by remote to repair it, but either way, I don't think it requires going under the knife.
It doesn't make sense that they'd make cyberware impossible to maintain unless you go into the cutting board every time. The cost seem insanely expensive. Then wireless on has a double cost, not only can you lose the ware, but you have to pay through the nose and find a street doc. That's ridiculous.
That's nice... but are you telling me you can repair reflex enhancers with just hardware if someone bricks it?
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Yes.
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Makes a certain amount of sense electrically as well its why we have wires and circuit breakers. Its all about protecting the asset if a problem happens you blow the fuse rather than melting a whole bunch of cabling then when you've fixed the initial problem you just replace the fuse rather than running a whole bunch of new cabling. In this case you can't really make the new wiring in the body melt itself (not unless you start houseruling burns and other phsyical damage from bricking) so there's a central hub with all the software that controls the impulses and its that unit which gets trashed, repaired and upgraded.
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Makes a certain amount of sense electrically as well its why we have wires and circuit breakers. Its all about protecting the asset if a problem happens you blow the fuse rather than melting a whole bunch of cabling then when you've fixed the initial problem you just replace the fuse rather than running a whole bunch of new cabling. In this case you can't really make the new wiring in the body melt itself (not unless you start houseruling burns and other phsyical damage from bricking) so there's a central hub with all the software that controls the impulses and its that unit which gets trashed, repaired and upgraded.
No- it doesn't make sense given the description of what reaction enhancers are.
Just say we use Hardware to fix something implanted along nerve centers because handwaveum.
It makes more sense.
Or fall back on, Matrix repair rules says use Hardware (without regard to whether you can reach said item that needs repair) so it's Hardware. And of course, handwaveum.
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Or just use the 4th Edition Augmentation rules.
Should a particular implant become damaged or disabled in some way—perhaps through a called shot attack, infection with gremlins, intruder nanites, a simple glitch, or as the result of the severe wounds rule—then it must repaired to get it working again (unless the gamemaster rules that it has been completely ruined and must be replaced). The nature of the repair effort may vary wildly, depending on the implant itself, its accessibility (is it reachable externally, or buried deep inside the body, thus requiring surgery?), and the nature of the damage. Some repairs might even be conducted remotely via the Matrix, such as patching up the software or downloading a firmware upgrade. Ultimately, the gamemaster decides what efforts are required, using the Build/Repair Table (p. 125, SR4) as a guideline. If surgery is called for, the surgery damage is the same as if installing the implant in question.
The same section has Implant Repair surgery listed as Cybertechnology + Logic (variable, 1 hour). In other words, ask your GM.
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...having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Dongle Dreadlocks!
That... could actually work. Especially if you're the type with lots of stuff woven into dreadlocks anyway, just hide the connecting cable inside one.
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...having a dongle hanging off your temple might look a bit weird.
Dongle Dreadlocks!
That... could actually work. Especially if you're the type with lots of stuff woven into dreadlocks anyway, just hide the connecting cable inside one.
Long Hair, Piercings and Jewelry, all acceptable camouflage with a little creativity. Or, again, custom Form Factor.
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And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.
Vs just cutting it out... cause if it isn't running silent and it won't if it doesn't have a sleaze rating which you can only get with either a commlink with sleaze rating in it or dongle which is the whole purpose of this thread which leads us back to just a skin pocket with a datajack
Any device can attempt to Run Silent. It's Logic + Sleaze, so having a Sleaze rating makes it more likely to hide. But it isn't a Sleaze action, so it doesn't "require" Sleaze.
And if your intention is to have a device concealed and undetectable if you're caught or captured... it's a Free action to trigger all your devices to deactivate wireless functions. If you had a Commlink in your belly button, you'd have to fish it back out and re-enable wireless after the threat has passed. If you have an implanted Commlink, you can always mentally turn it back on.
Core pg 451, Augmentation
Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the “moving parts” are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality is active.
You can't make phone calls or surf the Matrix with the wireless turned off, but you'll be safe from hackers. And it's just a thought to turn all that back on later.
same with a skinpocket with a datajack inside
Datajacks go in your brain, not in a skinpocket. They aren't just a wall jack for you to plug things into, they're installing a USB hub in the back of your neck. The only way to make it work with a skinpocket is to trail a data cable from the back of your neck, under your shirt, and into your belly button. At which point you're really just illustrating where you hid the Commlink.
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Does the Datajack description actually specify a location? Or can it go on your Kneecap? I know historically it commonly goes somewhere in the skull, but you can find Artwork examples of the Datajack ports being on the neck, on the temple, on the back of the head...
AFB so I can't check. As a GM if a player asks for a datajack belly button I really don't have an issue with it. Clearly YMMV.
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There are various examples in canon of non-standard locations. Riser had one on his back, for example.
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Data jacks are wireless anyway. You can connect to your commlink wirelessly if it's inside a skin pocket.
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Does the Datajack description actually specify a location? Or can it go on your Kneecap? I know historically it commonly goes somewhere in the skull, but you can find Artwork examples of the Datajack ports being on the neck, on the temple, on the back of the head...
If not in the head, I don't see it making sense to put one anywhere other than somewhere along the spinal column. The only way it could even feasibly make sense anywhere else is if it's using capacity in a cyber limb.
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You're okay with a datajack in a Cyber Foot, but not a meat foot? :P
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*rolls eyes*
Full limbs... Don't even know why someone would bring the cyber-foot/hand up...
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Wouldn't a foot need just as much of a neural interface as a full leg? It's not like a full leg would need to connect to the spinal column any more than a foot would, which is to say not at all.
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Does the Datajack description actually specify a location? Or can it go on your Kneecap? I know historically it commonly goes somewhere in the skull, but you can find Artwork examples of the Datajack ports being on the neck, on the temple, on the back of the head...
AFB so I can't check. As a GM if a player asks for a datajack belly button I really don't have an issue with it. Clearly YMMV.
Datajacks are listed as Headware, so I'm pretty sure they have to go in your Head someplace.
Data jacks are wireless anyway. You can connect to your commlink wirelessly if it's inside a skin pocket.
Not the point... if you have an implanted Commlink in your head, you have a neural connection (not DNI) that allows you to mentally control basic functions whether or not the wireless is enabled. So even if the wireless were disabled, you could still check your calendar and such.
If you have a Datajack in your head, and a Commlink in your pocket, and you disable the wireless on the Commlink, then you will need to physically interact with the Commlink to turn that back on again.
And as for relocating Datajacks... their purpose first and foremost is to provide DNI. They pipe digital data straight into the various sensory centers of your brain. Which means there need to be connections to those places in your brain. You can't get to the visual, auditory, or any other cortices from the foot...
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Actually Marcus Gideon, there isn't anything that says the datajack can't be placed elsewhere. In fact, in 2E's Cybertechnology book they give you the chance at a finger datajack and a subdermal datajack in the palm of one's hand. Also, if you check 10 Jackpointers, you'll notice that Turbo Bunny has one datajack in her navel. The navel is definitely not a section that attached to the brain but it does attach to the nervous system. Just saying...
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Actually Marcus Gideon, there isn't anything that says the datajack can't be placed elsewhere. In fact, in 2E's Cybertechnology book they give you the chance at a finger datajack and a subdermal datajack in the palm of one's hand. Also, if you check 10 Jackpointers, you'll notice that Turbo Bunny has one datajack in her navel. The navel is definitely not a section that attached to the brain but it does attach to the nervous system. Just saying...
This is not 1e,2e,3e or 4e... induction datjacks and the rest have not been introduced in 5e.
HEADware- nothing else says it goes iin the head quite like this.
Of course, do as you please in your own game as always.
If it makes sense to your group it's all good.
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SR3E had it so you could have smartlink processor induction jack and a datajack and that would be the same ask a smartgun system cyberware, trodes probably shouldnt be able to be placed anywhere but with data jacks you should be able to feed it through anywhere internetally
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Given SR5 is the edition where internal wires beyond the standard cost an extra 0.7 essence, I'm a bit leery of saying data jacks can go anywhere that isn't part of your skull.
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Ya true it's the future, things should be more ass backwards than bleeding edge just look at the matrix
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Ya true it's the future, things should be more ass backwards than bleeding edge just look at the matrix
Ass backwards indeed... kinda like taking all the inner workings of an implanted Trode headset
(https://i1.wp.com/ese.wustl.edu/~nehorai/eegmeg/eeg2.jpg)
And grafting that to your foot... somehow? And expecting that to still only require 0.1 Essence, as the Cybersurgeon proceeds to run wiring the entire length of your body so they can connect it to all the proper cortices in your brain for it to work right.
I'm all for fun and games, but this is a whole different level of pretend.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag137/nelsonmonty/spongebob_imagination_by_kssael_display_zps742422d7.jpeg)
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HANDWAVEUM, because you know, it's magic.
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Ya true it's the future, things should be more ass backwards than bleeding edge just look at the matrix
And grafting that to your foot... somehow? And expecting that to still only require 0.1 Essence, as the Cybersurgeon proceeds to run wiring the entire length of your body
cause you totally could do it twenty dreking years ago he'll cyberpunk let's you do it
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cause you totally could do it twenty dreking years ago he'll cyberpunk let's you do it
Previously, nanites were thrown at the issue of creating conducting paths throughout the body, and if there was a problem, it meant not enough nanites being used.
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cause you totally could do it twenty dreking years ago he'll cyberpunk let's you do it
Previously, nanites were thrown at the issue of creating conducting paths throughout the body, and if there was a problem, it meant not enough nanites being used.
so in 2050 SR3 had nano machines...
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This is not 1e,2e,3e or 4e... induction datjacks and the rest have not been introduced in 5e.
HEADware- nothing else says it goes iin the head quite like this.
Of course, do as you please in your own game as always.
If it makes sense to your group it's all good.
And the additional eye mount is eyeware, therefore it obviously can only go inside your eye.
It's a header for convenient grouping, not a requirement.
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so in 2050 SR3 had nano machines...
I'd suggest reading the relevant cyber tech books, rather than making such comments.
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In 2050 SR DID have nanotech; it simply wasn't the level of nanite action you saw after the Arcology Shutdown. Nanites in that time were less 'micro machines' than they were 'magnetically-guided carriers', necessary for the implantation of quite a few different sorts of tech, but primarily nerve-interacting stuff - datajacks, wired reflexes, vehicle control rigs, etc.
I've been chewing on the 'why implant a commlink / cyberdeck / rigger control console if the only way to repair its Matrix damage is by taking it apart?' issue for a little while, and I think I'm split. I believe I'd go with a house rule that blends the two viewpoints: 'surgery' of a sort is necessary, but it isn't too much more than slicing open your head down to the skull, spinning out a couple of screws, and pulling the commlink/cyberdeck out of the slot. There's gonna be blood, and stitches (or at least surgical glue) is going to be necessary, and you're going to take physical damage, even with all that it won't be more than one or two boxes of your Physical track worth.
In regards to dongles, my rule is 'yes, but' - with the 'but' being that the commlink has a port of sorts available, but you're going to have to modify the dongle to fit flush into the commlink, and once it's in your head, it ain't getting changed without surgery (i.e. the above cut-and-unscrew bit). But the essence of the port is going to be there, you just aren't going to be able to switch it out with anything resembling swiftness and ease.
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You think this, and all I'm thinking is, "taser." :P
There are many ways it can go, and most of them aren't necessarily wrong or even mutually exclusive. You can have one person with an internal con link buried so deep it takes surgery to get to it sitting next to someone with a shallow-implant commlink under a layer of synthskin or in a skin pocket, that you could get to quite easily for dongle swapping, next to a third person with their commlink buried deep, but theirs has a port for dongles attached to their datajack, next to a fourth person who has that same port boldly in the middle of their forehead for taser dongle headbutts.
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Yeah, I'd have a surface port for your dongles to dangle from in case of internal commlinks.
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That's called a datajack.
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Uh, does a commlink need a DNI port to plug in a dongle? Seems unlikely. And it still wouldn't fill the role of a datajack.
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Data Jacks plug in to universal data connectors. So does a dongle. Thus if you have an internal commlink, you should be able to plug a dongle into your data jack to get the dongle functionality. Seems logical to me.
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However... the Universal Data Connector seems to be the future's version of USBs. And plugging a Commlink dongle into your Datajack, which just happens to be implanted into the same body as the internal Commlink, sounds kinda like plugging a USB into one thing which just happens to be on the same network as something else.
They've said that they don't want to allow RCCs or Cyberdecks to use Commlink dongles, even though they "function like a Commlink" b/c they aren't truly a Commlink. They do a lot of the same things, but they aren't actually a Commlink. By that logic, you shouldn't be able to plug into a Datajack, or a UDC on your Cyber Arm, and have it work either. It's meant to be connected to a Commlink, and that's where it should go.
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I'd disagree with that, Marcus, simply because I think the dongle can perform it's purpose as long as a commlink is connected to the network somewhere.
To each their own; table call, ultimately.
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Anime robot-rabbit-ears!!
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(http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/talk-like-a-pirate-day-jack-sparrow.jpg)
And now I'm seeing the amalgamation of Jack Sparrow and Kane... dear GOD that is a terrifying prospect.
And by terrifying you mean awesome