[SoulGambit]

So. It's become an... issue in one of my games. Namely the +8-+12 Armor one can cheaply get for a pair of gloves and shoes. To be fair, its my fault. I built a Red Samurai as a Cybered up chromehead and revealed how good armored cyberlimbs are in general. He was a tank, eventually got taken out by four grenades detonating at his feat... Actually he spent Edge and survived that, because I thought it would be amusing to see if he could live. The concentrated fully automatic fire from all the PCs afterwards took care of him, however. Armor in general has been wonky, honestly. Thinking of the following houserules, and would like feedback.

Encumbrance: A character may wear a total of 10+Strength Armor without penalty. Every point of armor above this applies a -1 penalty to the total amount of meters they may move per pass, and a -1 penalty to all Defensive rolls. Every three points above this reduces your Physical Limit by 1.

Cyberlimbs and Armor: Full Cyberlimbs add +1 Armor. Half Cyberlimbs add +0.5 Armor. Remember to round up the final value. This armor does not count for encumberance. The Armor Enhancement continues to exist, but it requires Capacity*3 and does count against encumbrance.

Notes: Dermal Plating, Orthoskin, the +Armor Adept Power, and the Armor Mage Spell would still not count against encumbrance.

[Xenon]

First impression. Lots of complex rules and formula :p

How about this:
You can only buy enhancements to full limbs, no partial limbs.
You can only utilize a total of +4 armor from cyberlimbs.


Or how about this:
You can only buy enhancements to full limbs, no partial limbs.
Armor from cyberlimbs now count towards the existing Armor and Encumbrance rule on p.169

(which basically state you can get Strength +2 bonus armor, then you suffer -1 Agility and Reaction for each 2 bonus armor beyond that).



Example
A Strength 5 character could get 7 bonus armor without penalty.
2 points from a helmet. 2 from left arm. 2 from right arm. 2 from right leg. 2 from left leg.
This is equal to +10 bonus armor so she would  take a penalty of -2 agility and -2 reaction.

[Psikerlord]

Yeah i like the no armour on partial limbs/hands/feet. That way you can tank up if you want, but it costs signficant essence to do so.

Alternatively, in SR4, we went with all limbs give you +1 armour free. But you couldnt add any extra beyond that.

[Reaver]

My way of handling cyberarmor munchkinism is easy, straight forward, and a staple at my table no matter who GMs.

1: since we can assume that attackers are aiming to do the most damage to an opponent, we can safely say they are aiming for the "trunk"... Meaning chest, head, abdomen areas. Thus, cyber armor in limbs is not as effective at stopping damage. (note: not including cyber torso armor in this statement.

Thus: armor in cyber limbs only adds 25% value to total armor. UNLESS an attacker makes a called shot to the limb... Then the cyber armor is 100% effective.

Armor in partial limbs is NOT effective at all except VS called shots to that portion of the limb. (a cyber armored foot has no barring on a shot to the chest... But a shot to the foot however...)

We have found this cuts down on cyberarmor munchkins who replace hands/feet or even whole limbs for to sole purpose of stacking armor very effectively
Cyber torso armor us 100% effective Vs normal shots, but has no effect in called shots to other parts if the body (head, hand, leg, etc)
 
Cyber limb armor is only 50% effect vs AOE damage.
Cyber torso armor is 100% effective Vs AOE damage.

[SoulGambit]

@Xenon: Which part appears complicated?

[Xenon]

@Xenon: Which part appears complicated?

Encumbrance

There is already an existing Armor and Encumbrance rule.
Use it. It is good.


Change this line of text at p.456
Armor enhancements provide an Armor bonus equal to their rating, cumulative with other armor, without adding to Encumbrance.
to
Armor enhancements provide an Armor bonus equal to their rating, cumulative with other armor. It adds to Encumbrance.

[Xenon]

A Strength 4 character having 4 cyberlimbs with +2 armor on each would in that case suffer -1 agility and -1 reaction.

That would affect his movement speed
His physical limit.
Using Agility and Reaction based skills.
His Initiative
His defense roll




A version of this would be that half the amount of armor from cyberlimbs count towards the Armor and Encumbrance rule.
- In that case you would need a Strength of 4 to handle 4 cyberlimbs with +3 armor on each (without wearing a helmet or a shield).

[Novocrane]

Why not house-rule armour enhancement for cyber-limbs as armour accessories?

The maximum bonus a character receive from [armour accessories] is limited to their Strength attribute. For every 2 full points by which the bonus exceeds the character’s Strength, the character suffers a –1 penalty to Agility and Reaction.

[Mäx]

My way of handling cyberarmor munchkinism is easy, straight forward, and a staple at my table no matter who GMs.

1: since we can assume that attackers are aiming to do the most damage to an opponent, we can safely say they are aiming for the "trunk"... Meaning chest, head, abdomen areas. Thus, cyber armor in limbs is not as effective at stopping damage. (note: not including cyber torso armor in this statement.

Thus: armor in cyber limbs only adds 25% value to total armor. UNLESS an attacker makes a called shot to the limb... Then the cyber armor is 100% effective.

Armor in partial limbs is NOT effective at all except VS called shots to that portion of the limb. (a cyber armored foot has no barring on a shot to the chest... But a shot to the foot however...)

We have found this cuts down on cyberarmor munchkins who replace hands/feet or even whole limbs for to sole purpose of stacking armor very effectively
Cyber torso armor us 100% effective Vs normal shots, but has no effect in called shots to other parts if the body (head, hand, leg, etc)
 
Cyber limb armor is only 50% effect vs AOE damage.
Cyber torso armor is 100% effective Vs AOE damage.

Does this also affect all the other sources of armor, if not, then why does cyber armor get singled out.

[Crunch]

I think the simplest solution would be either

A) Use Cyberlimb averaging for Cyberlimb Armor.

or

B) Apply only the highest Cyberlimb Armor bonus.

[SoulGambit]

I'd like it if encumbrance stopped Strength 1 Elven Mages from dancing around in Fullplate as well. Perhaps continue making it 10+Strength, make normal armor apply to the limit, and otherwise leave encumbrance alone.

Re: Why not just make enhancements count towards...

Street Samurai should be more resilient, soak more damage, and have more armor than an equivalent Adept. They should -not- have +12 Armor over what an Adept should be capable of.

[Reaver]

My way of handling cyberarmor munchkinism is easy, straight forward, and a staple at my table no matter who GMs.

1: since we can assume that attackers are aiming to do the most damage to an opponent, we can safely say they are aiming for the "trunk"... Meaning chest, head, abdomen areas. Thus, cyber armor in limbs is not as effective at stopping damage. (note: not including cyber torso armor in this statement.

Thus: armor in cyber limbs only adds 25% value to total armor. UNLESS an attacker makes a called shot to the limb... Then the cyber armor is 100% effective.

Armor in partial limbs is NOT effective at all except VS called shots to that portion of the limb. (a cyber armored foot has no barring on a shot to the chest... But a shot to the foot however...)

We have found this cuts down on cyberarmor munchkins who replace hands/feet or even whole limbs for to sole purpose of stacking armor very effectively
Cyber torso armor us 100% effective Vs normal shots, but has no effect in called shots to other parts if the body (head, hand, leg, etc)
 
Cyber limb armor is only 50% effect vs AOE damage.
Cyber torso armor is 100% effective Vs AOE damage.

Does this also affect all the other sources of armor, if not, then why does cyber armor get singled out.

Nope. Just cyber armor. And the reason is, most other armor is jackets, or coats, or shirts and the like. These forms cover your vitals from damage. Helmets only add +1 armor, and shields are large devices you deploy in front of your trunk...

Cyber limb armor is the ONLY armor that is (IMO) broken in the fact that a character can replace only their hands and feet and get/expect/demand an extra 16-20 points of armor even though the surface area covered by your hands/feet make up LESS then 5% of your surface area, and contain no vital organs...

In short, cyber armor is kinda broken.

[Mäx]

Does this also affect all the other sources of armor, if not, then why does cyber armor get singled out.

Nope. Just cyber armor. And the reason is, most other armor is jackets, or coats, or shirts and the like. These forms cover your vitals from damage. Helmets only add +1 armor, and shields are large devices you deploy in front of your trunk...

Well good for you that you have such fiat accommodating players,  personally i would never accept GM just randomly making one part of completely abstract rules suddenly non-abstract.
Lightly armored pants or skirt helps you survive a hit to central mass, but magically armored cyberlegs dont

[Reaver]

Does this also affect all the other sources of armor, if not, then why does cyber armor get singled out.

Nope. Just cyber armor. And the reason is, most other armor is jackets, or coats, or shirts and the like. These forms cover your vitals from damage. Helmets only add +1 armor, and shields are large devices you deploy in front of your trunk...

Well good for you that you have such fiat accommodating players,  personally i would never accept GM just randomly making one part of completely abstract rules suddenly non-abstract.
Lightly armored pants or skirt helps you survive a hit to central mass, but magically armored cyberlegs dont

I didn't ask you to

You are free to play at any table you wish, with any rules you wish, I am not going to stop you. But the OP noticed a problem with something at his table and proposed a solution. I countered with the solution that are agreed to at my table so he could see what we do. And then I expanded on why I treat some cyber armor the way my table does.

You don't like it, fine. Don't use my house rule. Makes no difference to me