[Reaver]

The bigger question you should be asking (if you are not..... your posting style is confusing to suss out EXACTLY what you are asking...)

"Is the an excusion of the unwritten 'no double dipping damage' rule, that is never expressly written?"

What is referrs to is the simple fact that each test is a singular test. Examples of this are things like shock gloves, touch range spells, poisons and toxins.

   Shock gloves only deal damage on a touch attack, you can NOT punch someone, and have them resist damage, then use the same atrack result to get them to resist the shock attack. You either do punch damage, or shock. Not both.
     Touch based spells require a melee attack as part of the casting test to touch the target. Many have tried to argue that they should be able to do punch damage on top of the spell.
     Many people point to poisons and toxins as a 'double dip' and proof that they can 2 types of damage in a single hit. But they are forgeting the onset time, which starts on the poisoned individual's turn, not the attacker, thus seperating the damage to: the initial hit. Then poison/toxin at the start of the defender's turn.

    If the "No DD" rule is intact, then elemental body/weapon replaces the damage code of the regular attack with its own damage code. Making a conditional power based on character factors. A maxed out Strength troll with a combat axe wouldn't want elemental weapon powers as they limit the damage to less then his regular melee attack! On the flip side, it reduces the dependancy on strength for damage output and refocuses your attention on improving your magic attribute. Which also nets you more power points.


If you are asking me, I follow the "No Double Dipping" unwritten rule. Which in this case would be elemental body/strike/weapon replaces the usual damage code with its own.

[ScytheKnight]

Well you can do a 'full attack' with Shock Gloves/Baton but this just adds net hits to the damage, you don't deal an impact damage, then a stun damage on top.

[Strange]

    Great answer. A little clarification on what I wanted to know on elemental body, considering as you said it requires "unarmed attack" status and would not be compatible with Knucks per your listed reasons. Does the damage as a listed "magic x2" allow the application of critical strike which is compatable with "unarmed attack" status but unlike Penetrating Strike does not list incompatibility with elemental strike. It makes since that critical strike works with elemental strike as a non-mutually exclusive enhancement of the "unarmed combat" combat status. Elemental body however has that magical damage which I wonder if it would replaces "unarmed attack" status damage with a "magical attack" damage resulting in the bonus not applying or if it changes the state used by the attack damage calculation but still maintaining that it is an "Unarmed Skill" used making Critical strike compatible. It its a "magic attack" that uses "Unarmed Skill" it would appear per earlier descuttions it would. At the same time it states a damage "substitution" which could take place "before or after" the bonus resulting in it bing negated by the transition.

I hope this question is clear. I know its not very consice and I am see how my original question did not reflect I was really looking for the campaablites of multiple asspects.

The wording of Elemental Body explains the DV of the attack, and that seems to denote it replaces all other damage.  That would also be in line with the other rulings and interpretations thus far, so logically we can deduce intent from that precedent.  Whether that is valid or not, however, depends on the individual.  I would also venture that it no longer would be considered unarmed for the usage of powers (I think, technically, you wouldn't even really be physically striking your opponent with you own body, just the elemental aura).  That is just how I read it, however.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Does the damage as a listed "magic x2" allow the application of critical strike which is compatable with "unarmed attack" status but unlike Penetrating Strike does not list incompatibility with elemental strike.

Elemental Body follows the same rules and restrictions as Elemental Strike; that is to say, it "can’t be combined with any other adept striking power except Killing Hands."

Specific trumps general, and Elemental Body is treated like Elemental Strike which can only be combined with Killing Hands.

It makes since that critical strike works with elemental strike as a non-mutually exclusive enhancement of the "unarmed combat" combat status.

See above; that's a no.

Elemental body however has that magical damage which I wonder if it would replaces "unarmed attack" status damage with a "magical attack" damage resulting in the bonus not applying or if it changes the state used by the attack damage calculation but still maintaining that it is an "Unarmed Skill" used making Critical strike compatible.

Again, no. Elemental Strike enhances an unarmed attack by changing the DV to whatever Element you have chosen; so, an adept with a Strength of 4 would normally do 4S, but with Killing hands and Elemental Strike (Fire) would do 4P (Fire) instead. The same adept with Elemental Body and a Magic of 6 would do 12P with an AP of -3 if he used Elemental Body.

It its a "magic attack" that uses "Unarmed Skill" it would appear per earlier descuttions it would.

No, as per the first reply above.

At the same time it states a damage "substitution" which could take place "before or after" the bonus resulting in it bing negated by the transition.

English isn't my first language, but I read the Elemental Body stipulation of "treat Elemental Body like the Elemental Strike power, with a DV of x and an AP of y" as a definitive replacement, as per the above.

In short, adept powers, especially striking ones, don't interact very well unless specifically mentioned particularly where which ones stack with weapons are concerned. Elemental Body is one of the absolute best ways to build a high-DV adept, though it does have a potentially high Drain DV.

[Jack_Spade]

In short, adept powers, especially striking ones, don't interact very well unless specifically mentioned particularly where which ones stack with weapons are concerned. Elemental Body is one of the absolute best ways to build a high-DV adept, though it does have a potentially high Drain DV.

Which makes it one of the worst powers for an adept to have.
Really, Elemental Body is a trap: Drain and activation time are too high and although the damage is decent, the AP is not - unless you have a really high magic rating.