[RickDeckard]

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old?

I get the rules say you can only raise an attribute to 4 over your max, but there seems to be several interpretations of that.

Example:

Human with starting STR of 3 (racial max is 6). Some say your augmented max is then 3+4=7, others say its 6+4=10.

Also, what is augmented max? Can I raise my STR to 8 using Karma and then keep raising it using Cyberware, e.g. Muscle Augmentation, until I hit 12?

HALP!

[Beta]

(this is all as I understand it)

There are two things here:  racial max and augmented max, and I think they have been sloppy with wording occasionally.

Your augmented maximum is always four points above your unaugmented attribute.  If your strength is 3, no mix of 'ware and magic can take it above 7.  But if you use karma to buy it up to 4, then your augmented maximum is 8.

As a human, your racial max is 6.  You can buy your strength up that far with karma, but no farther (unless you get the exceptional attribute quality, when it could go to 7).  So from starting at 3 you could pump in 75 karma and get up to strength 6, at which point your augmented max would be 10.

The spot that I'm not clear on is with cyberlimbs.  I've assumed that limb attributes, after all is said and done, can't exceed your augmented maximum, but I'm not positive about that.

[Michael Chandra]

Updated SR5 edition:

First, when purchasing augmentations
such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute
rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an
augmentation bonus of up to +4. If the attribute being
raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the
attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no
point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap. This
applies to all sources of attribute increases. Whatever
the source, or combination of sources, the maximum
bonus for any attribute is always +4, unless specifically
excepted.

If your attribute is X, your Augmented Maximum is X+4. Your Racial Maximum is the limit to how far you can get the BASE value with Karma. So a Human, with racial strength max 6, can go +4 max, and 6 max, so total max 6+4. But 5+5 would not be allowed, nor would 7+3.

Cyberlimbs are completely separate: They are not restricted by Augmented Maximum, since they REPLACE your attribute, not augment it.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Updated SR5 edition:

First, when purchasing augmentations
such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute
rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an
augmentation bonus of up to +4. If the attribute being
raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the
attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no
point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap. This
applies to all sources of attribute increases. Whatever
the source, or combination of sources, the maximum
bonus for any attribute is always +4, unless specifically
excepted.

If your attribute is X, your Augmented Maximum is X+4. Your Racial Maximum is the limit to how far you can get the BASE value with Karma. So a Human, with racial strength max 6, can go +4 max, and 6 max, so total max 6+4. But 5+5 would not be allowed, nor would 7+3.

Cyberlimbs are completely separate: They are not restricted by Augmented Maximum, since they REPLACE your attribute, not augment it.

+1 to all of this.  Particularly to the Cyberlimbs... they are a completely different animal entirely. Completely different rules apply. (Note that Chummer and Hero Lab have Cyberlimbs end up giving augmented values to STR/AGI, and this is technically incorrect)


To answer another OP's question:

If your strength is 3, you can spend karma to increase it to whatever your racial maximum is.  These increases are not augmented bonuses; they are simply increasing your base value.  So if you  start at 3 strength and spend enough karma to go to 6 strength, you can still stack +4 strength onto that from various augmentations.

[RickDeckard]

So you can never raise an attribute above your racial max using Karma? And your Augmented Max is a floating number that is always your natural attribute +4? Which means for humans your Augmented Max is actually 10, provided you bump it to natural max using Karma.

[Michael Chandra]

Correct. And Customized Cyberlimbs are restricted by your Racial Max (which of course you can increase with that one quality), and a +3 on top from its modifications.

[RickDeckard]

Awesome, thanks!