[Michael Chandra]

Bump all ranged damage by 3 do the armor as I suggested. Add 1/2 strength round down to melee weapon damage.

What about 1/2 strength rounded down using one hand, and straight strength if using the weapon 2-handed? It would make that troll with a battleaxe waaay scarier to get into combat with.

If the biggest guns do like 7P damage, which might be 11P under the houserule I wrote up (with guns getting small increases for small guns because people are complaining about lethality, so boosting small guns like crazy will make it worse), a Troll being able to do X+14 is incredibly OP.

[JoeNapalm]

Remember when D&D decided to simplify the system, over-corrected, and gave us 4th edition?

Here's hoping Shadowrun 7th edition finds the balance.

(I'm an old and jaded gamer, my snark is born from experience.)

Must be an old jaded gamer thing, I kind of feel the same way, but am trying to reserve judgement.

From the Critical Action/Shadow Network streams, it feels like they're trying to morph into something similar to the engine Modiphius uses for Star Trek Adventures...Edge = Momentum, system is quick and abstract, etc.

This system works really well for STA, but STA is very much about simulating an episode of a Science Fiction show, vs actual Science Fiction, if that makes any sense. There's very little crunch. SR has always been fairly crunchy, and my initial reaction is somewhat indignant, I must confess.

The streams showed the players having similar reactions, then gradually coming to like it -- but after six hours or so not really groking/liking things like the Armor rules.

Edge may prove interesting. I never really played Edge Monkey characters, but Momentum in STA does make for very dynamic and interesting play, and this looks similar. Things like the Armor/Melee changes made an initial impression like fingernails on a chalkboard, so I'll have to wait and see if how I understand them is how they really are going to work.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Marcus]

I agree that edge is intended to be momentum like, but how it’s generated and how it interacts with a the groups seems to have gotten confused. At least with how the system has been explained to date.

[tenchi2a]

Remember when D&D decided to simplify the system, over-corrected, and gave us 4th edition?

Here's hoping Shadowrun 7th edition finds the balance.

(I'm an old and jaded gamer, my snark is born from experience.)

Must be an old jaded gamer thing, I kind of feel the same way, but am trying to reserve judgement.

From the Critical Action/Shadow Network streams, it feels like they're trying to morph into something similar to the engine Modiphius uses for Star Trek Adventures...Edge = Momentum, system is quick and abstract, etc.

This system works really well for STA, but STA is very much about simulating an episode of a Science Fiction show, vs actual Science Fiction, if that makes any sense. There's very little crunch. SR has always been fairly crunchy, and my initial reaction is somewhat indignant, I must confess.

The streams showed the players having similar reactions, then gradually coming to like it -- but after six hours or so not really groking/liking things like the Armor rules.

Edge may prove interesting. I never really played Edge Monkey characters, but Momentum in STA does make for very dynamic and interesting play, and this looks similar. Things like the Armor/Melee changes made an initial impression like fingernails on a chalkboard, so I'll have to wait and see if how I understand them is how they really are going to work.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Yet that's a smart move, imitating a company that has a history of lie to and pissing off its fans  .
Anyway, it seems to me as has been said before that the writes fell into the old trap of trying to bring in new players by streamlining (industry talk for simplifying) their game.
This has always turned out to be a bad idea, but I hope it's not the last nail in the coffin for the game because it would be sad for Shadowrun to go out on the wimpier that is 6th.

[jim1701]

These are the QSR which we're seeing examples of.  They are pretty much guaranteed to be a simplified subset of the full rules.  Not sure how much stock I can put in critiques on complexity until the full rules become available.  Then again IMO 5th ED was a horribly a over complicated mess simply for the sake of being complex. 

[Shinobi Killfist]

I agree that edge is intended to be momentum like, but how it’s generated and how it interacts with a the groups seems to have gotten confused. At least with how the system has been explained to date.

Momentum at least sounds more like what this mechanic does than edge. Never played a momentum system before so I can’t comment on them. But edge as described so fat seems like a cool addition to a compete rule system but a crap way to replace core mechanics. The threshold system is used to represent difficult tasks but edge is used when a person is involved.

So grabbing a handhold in the dark threshold X grabbing a dude in the dark they get 1 edge, but the task is actually no more difficult than doing it in light if they don’t use the edge as defense  but now after escaping your hold they are a better shot on some dude unrelated to your scuffle when they use the edge 2 combat turns later. Balancing on a slippery surface threshold 2, spinning side kick on a slippery surface defender gets 1 edge.

[tenchi2a]

These are the QSR which we're seeing examples of.  They are pretty much guaranteed to be a simplified subset of the full rules.  Not sure how much stock I can put in critiques on complexity until the full rules become available.  Then again IMO 5th ED was a horribly a over complicated mess simply for the sake of being complex.

Not sure if this was directed at me, If so I am speaking from what I have seen and heard from the play thru on shadowcasters network.
And they are using the full corebook to the best of my knowledge not the beginners box QSR.

[tenchi2a]

So There is a question that has been floating around my table for the last couple of games.
Is the Core-rule book still in development/layout or is it done and just waiting to be printed for the august release?
The reason I ask is to find out if there is any chance that the rules will be change before the release or is this what we're going to get?
I understand if this information is under NDA.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

So There is a question that has been floating around my table for the last couple of games.
Is the Core-rule book still in development/layout or is it done and just waiting to be printed for the august release?
The reason I ask is to find out if there is any chance that the rules will be change before the release or is this what we're going to get?
I understand if this information is under NDA.

"Is 'this' what we're going to get?" is perhaps a trickier question than you realize. NDAs are keeping all the answers everyone wants from being given.

Some things to keep in mind (and that are tangentially relevant to your question):
The QSR has some minor rule divergences from the full CRB for the sake of ease-of-play/demo-ing.
The QSR also has some flat out wrong info.  (I saw an egregious error in one of the pics shared in the twitter link covering a QSR unboxing in another thread)
The CRB *is* written, but as the Shadowrun Line Developer has said there's already an errata team poring over it. It remains to be seen what specific changes may come about to the CRB via the errata process. But it's already in the works.

[tenchi2a]

So There is a question that has been floating around my table for the last couple of games.
Is the Core-rule book still in development/layout or is it done and just waiting to be printed for the august release?
The reason I ask is to find out if there is any chance that the rules will be change before the release or is this what we're going to get?
I understand if this information is under NDA.

"Is 'this' what we're going to get?" is perhaps a trickier question than you realize. NDAs are keeping all the answers everyone wants from being given.

Some things to keep in mind (and that are tangentially relevant to your question):
The QSR has some minor rule divergences from the full CRB for the sake of ease-of-play/demo-ing.
The QSR also has some flat out wrong info.  (I saw an egregious error in one of the pics shared in the twitter link covering a QSR unboxing in another thread)
The CRB *is* written, but as the Shadowrun Line Developer has said there's already an errata team poring over it. It remains to be seen what specific changes may come about to the CRB via the errata process. But it's already in the works.

Thank you for the response.
Just to be clear was not asking about the QSR have not seen or read them.
I was asking based on what I had seen and heard on the shadowcaster play thru.
And if this is an accurate or close to accurate version of the corebook rules.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I would say mainly accurate. 

As with any group, being new with the system made them do some things wrong in the "you shouldn't have done that" tactical meaning, and some other things were done wrong in a "that's not what the rulebook says" sense.  Moreso the former than the latter.

[Marcus]

Yet that's a smart move, imitating a company that has a history of lie to and pissing off its fans  .

To be fair Tenchi I think that statement could be used to describe pretty much every gaming company in existent at one point or another. (Ok probably not Guardians of Order but we can't all be saints, or that unlucky.)

As to the rest, I have never read 6e CRB and the only fore knowledge of the 6e system I have is what has/is discussed on here or is linked from here.
But lets be honest after reading all that been said on here. It's fairly obvious that 6e is gonna need a lot of work.
Even it's strongest proponents on here, already outlined some the house rules they intend to use to help fix it at their tables, and they have actually read at least some version those rules. So lets all hope the errata team can make 6e playable. Sure it will probably mean whatever printed version makes it out for the first round mass distribution will probably be fairly meaningless. But PDF updates are basically free so just order online, and wait a bit before picking up the dead tree version if you prefer it.

[tenchi2a]

Yet that's a smart move, imitating a company that has a history of lie to and pissing off its fans  .

To be fair Tenchi I think that statement could be used to describe pretty much every gaming company in existent at one point or another. (Ok probably not Guardians of Order but we can't all be saints, or that unlucky.)

I really miss BESM , always was a fun game.

As to the rest, I have never read 6e CRB and the only fore knowledge of the 6e system I have is what has/is discussed on here or is linked from here.
But lets be honest after reading all that been said on here. It's fairly obvious that 6e is gonna need a lot of work.
Even it's strongest proponents on here, already outlined some the house rules they intend to use to help fix it at their tables, and they have actually read at least some version those rules. So lets all hope the errata team can make 6e playable. Sure it will probably mean whatever printed version makes it out for the first round mass distribution will probably be fairly meaningless. But PDF updates are basically free so just order online, and wait a bit before picking up the dead tree version if you prefer it.

That's the thing, if the rules need heavy errata just to be playable then there seems to be no point in buying the book.
I would say that with that pushing the release back would be smarter than going to print with that much errata needed, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway got the info I needed so it looks like we are just going to stick with 5th for now.

[Marcus]

Yet that's a smart move, imitating a company that has a history of lie to and pissing off its fans  .

To be fair Tenchi I think that statement could be used to describe pretty much every gaming company in existent at one point or another. (Ok probably not Guardians of Order but we can't all be saints, or that unlucky.)

I really miss BESM , always was a fun game.

As do I. Everyone lost out when they went down.

That's the thing, if the rules need heavy errata just to be playable then there seems to be no point in buying the book.
I would say that with that pushing the release back would be smarter than going to print with that much errata needed, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway got the info I needed so it looks like we are just going to stick with 5th for now.

From my perspective buying a "book" isn't about buying some pulped up dead tree with ink on it. When we buy a book, these days, we are buying the IP. We are supporting the makers of the book.  I personally don't have much faith in 6e CRB at launch, and further the QSR rules make no sense to me. But I expect I will at least buy a pdf copy of the CRB. After that we will simply have to see. If errata can fix it great. If not well, there are other options, sometimes I feel the need to have to step out for an edition. As to pushing it back, I suspect that ship probably already sailed literally, I have no idea what the distribution schedule is but sailing from where ever this is being printed means a good amount of lead time. So if they are releasing at the end of the summer I suspect that first round is probably already printed.

[Shinobi Killfist]

While the errata team is working on it I suspect they are mainly looking at typos and straight contradictory rules and not at ways to fix a core system. Once enough players speak up like if they had a sizable diverse playtest we might get optional rules in a first book.