Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Hermes on <06-25-12/1530:09>

Title: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-25-12/1530:09>
Okay, I read Never Deal with a Dragon, and Never Trust an Elf and I had the impression that Mister Drake knows Lofwyr intimately.  As in Ian Hymme intimately knows Nevada Smith in the Deadlands RPG.  Although Mister "I am a Dick" Lofwyr (as CanRay so eloquently puts it to Lofwyr) acts like a dick, Mr. "I am a duck" Drake doesn't act so dicky.

So, is Mister Drake Lofwyr?  Or is he an entirely different entity that just acts as Lofwyr's mouthpiece?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: CanRay on <06-25-12/1617:21>
So, is Mister Drake Lofwyr?  Or is he an entirely different entity that just acts as Lofwyr's mouthpiece?
Yes.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-25-12/1739:08>
Oh, how funny.

Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: ArkangelWinter on <06-25-12/1746:03>
But accurate. Identity is a little muddy with Drakes, especially dealing with Doll Maker himself.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: CanRay on <06-25-12/1755:29>
Oh, how funny.
I'm not being funny.  I'm being serious.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-25-12/1800:51>
Oh, how funny.
I'm not being funny.  I'm being serious.

I knew you were.

That's why I edited my response.  I figured that Lofwyr was Drake it was too blinking obvious.  I wanted to make that other people shared my  thoughts on this.  Even if he goes around calling himself "duck."
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: TheNarrator on <06-25-12/2342:12>
But accurate. Identity is a little muddy with Drakes, especially dealing with Doll Maker himself.
Doll-Maker is Ghostwalker/Icewing, not Lofwyr.


Although I read those books only a few years ago, I don't really remember Mr. Drake. Dragons do use drakes (a sort of shapechanging metahuman/dragon hybrid) as their most trusted agents, however.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-26-12/0047:18>
Mr. Drake is my favorite minor character in the book.  I really enjoyed him! :)

Although when Sam Verner Assensed him, he still appeared human.  So, either Lofwyr can hide himself from astral assessing, or Mr. Drake is actually a drake and not a shape changing "duck."  ;D
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Critias on <06-26-12/0056:25>
Mr. Drake is my favorite minor character in the book.  I really enjoyed him! :)

Although when Sam Verner Assensed him, he still appeared human.  So, either Lofwyr can hide himself from astral assessing, or Mr. Drake is actually a drake and not a shape changing "duck."  ;D
Read up on Masking some time.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-26-12/0208:08>
Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: M • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2)

Physical Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2) + 1

The Mask spell requires the caster to touch the subject. The subject assumes
a different physical appearance (of the same basic size and shape)
chosen by the caster. This alters the subject’s voice, scent, and other
physical characteristics as well.

Anyone who might see through the disguise must first successfully
resist the spell. Simply make one Spellcasting Test and use the hits
scored as the threshold for anyone that resists at a later point.
Mask affects the minds of viewers. Physical Mask creates an illusion
that affects technological sensors as well.

From SR4A.

Let me check Street Magic.

Okay, there's nothing in Street magic, so I am guessing *Mask* would hide you in the Astral Plane as well.  That still doesn't explain why Verner was able to see Haesliche in the bar and not Lofwyr in the car.  So I'm guessing that Mr. Drake cast a masking spell of higher force than Haesliche in regards to Verner's Assensing.

edit: Found this --

Masking: A character who learns masking can change the appearance of her aura/astral form to do the following: look mundane, look as though her Magic is higher or lower than it is (+/– your grade of initiation), or look as though she is a different type of astral creature. When someone attempts to assense the aura of an initiate using masking, make an Assensing + Intuition Opposed Test against the initiate’s Intuition + Magic + initiate grade. If they get fewer hits, they see only the false aura. If they get more hits, they will see both the illusory aura she provided and her true aura. To disguise her astral form to look like a spirit or other astrally active creature, the character must be capable of astral projection.

Page 198.  This overrides the Mask spell, and both Lofwyr and Haesliche would know it.  Only that Sam Verner didn't succeed at his Assensing + Intuition test in regards to Drake, but in the case of Haesliche he did succeed.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Black on <06-26-12/0245:37>
Wasn't Mr Drake the other dragon?  The United Oil dragon?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: redwolf on <06-26-12/0259:48>
nop that was Haesliche
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: ArkangelWinter on <06-26-12/1619:15>
But accurate. Identity is a little muddy with Drakes, especially dealing with Doll Maker himself.
Doll-Maker is Ghostwalker/Icewing, not Lofwyr

For some reson when I read the OP, I had replaced Lofwyr with GW in my mind.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: VuuduuHedd on <06-27-12/0811:59>
You'd think Games Workshop would have been bought out by one of the UK-residing Dragons.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: CanRay on <06-27-12/1209:10>
You'd think Games Workshop would have been bought out by one of the UK-residing Dragons.
Who says it hasn't?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <06-27-12/1847:45>
Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: M • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2)

Physical Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2) + 1
...
(clipped)
...
Page 198.  This overrides the Mask spell, and both Lofwyr and Haesliche would know it.  Only that Sam Verner didn't succeed at his Assensing + Intuition test in regards to Drake, but in the case of Haesliche he did succeed.

Yeah ... I ... it's really hard for me to keep my jaw-hinge closed (as it were), but this is sort of egregious.  Haesslich pretty obviously didn't care, though as I recall the book, he never bothered to NOT be in his dragon form; Mr. Drake, one way or the other, was either what he was or didn't want to advertise his presence.

What gets me though, Hermes, is that you're snarky and shirty about other people's commentary when you haven't even studied up on the material.  Is it the most basic of the stuff, no - but hey, look, it's right there in the 4A Rulebook.  C'mon, man, you aren't even trying ...
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Mirikon on <06-27-12/1903:55>
I'm fairly certain that while Haesslich was in metahuman form for his dinner date where Twist was spying in astral form, he was only in that form because of space considerations. The people who knew what he was wouldn't be fooled by masking, and there are few better ways to keep someone from taking an astral peek at your conversations than broadcasting "I'm a dragon. Go away."
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Black on <06-27-12/1911:40>
I'm fairly certain that while Haesslich was in metahuman form for his dinner date where Twist was spying in astral form, he was only in that form because of space considerations. The people who knew what he was wouldn't be fooled by masking, and there are few better ways to keep someone from taking an astral peek at your conversations than broadcasting "I'm a dragon. Go away."

Its been awhile, but thats the bit I remember.  Looked human, but all dragon in the astral.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <06-28-12/0040:14>
You'd think Games Workshop would have been bought out by one of the UK-residing Dragons.
Who says it hasn't?

Celedyr bought out Games Workshop and has been competing with the Megacorp that has bought out Hasbro ever since. :D
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Mythik on <07-04-12/2200:26>
You'd think Games Workshop would have been bought out by one of the UK-residing Dragons.
Who says it hasn't?

Celedyr bought out Games Workshop and has been competing with the Megacorp that has bought out Hasbro ever since. :D

They merged recently and now go by the name Games-Work-Bro!
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Hermes on <07-11-12/1700:14>
Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: M • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2)

Physical Mask (Realistic, Multi-Sense)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: S • DV: (F ๗ 2) + 1
...
(clipped)
...
Page 198.  This overrides the Mask spell, and both Lofwyr and Haesliche would know it.  Only that Sam Verner didn't succeed at his Assensing + Intuition test in regards to Drake, but in the case of Haesliche he did succeed.

Yeah ... I ... it's really hard for me to keep my jaw-hinge closed (as it were), but this is sort of egregious.  Haesslich pretty obviously didn't care, though as I recall the book, he never bothered to NOT be in his dragon form; Mr. Drake, one way or the other, was either what he was or didn't want to advertise his presence.

What gets me though, Hermes, is that you're snarky and shirty about other people's commentary when you haven't even studied up on the material.  Is it the most basic of the stuff, no - but hey, look, it's right there in the 4A Rulebook.  C'mon, man, you aren't even trying ...

Actually I did. Right after I posted that I posted an editing.

I quoted Masking, the Metamagic.  You just forgot that part.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <07-11-12/2226:41>
In other words, you didn't bother to actually fully research before initially posting.  I didn't forget it; you didn't read until after.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Critias on <07-11-12/2252:08>
What's bein' gained by not dropping it, at this point?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Mirikon on <07-12-12/0736:51>
What's bein' gained by not dropping it, at this point?
This is the Internet! It is not enough that someone be wrong, we must rub their face in their wrongness, to prove how right we are, so we can win the internet!

</sarcasm>
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: markelphoenix on <07-12-12/1932:47>
What's bein' gained by not dropping it, at this point?

Yay for Critias. I pronounce your name Crit-E-Ass, btw. Not sure if that is how is suppose to be, but it makes me smile.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: AceFace on <08-27-12/1848:21>
I appreciate that this is thread-o-mancy and probably no-one cares anymore, but I'm pretty sure that the implication is that Mr Drake is Haesslich. In the Into The Shadows collection of short stories, in the last story It's All Done With Mirrors, Nadia Mirin is accompanied by a Mr. Jarlath (Lattie) Drake who promptly turns into a big dragon and chases off some corrupt Lone Star people in helicopters (it's a bit convoluted the plot - it attempts to tie together all of the common threads from the other short stories, with varying levels of success).

Quote
Nadia did not move, but Lattie did. He wrenched the dragon bracelet from his left wrist and tossed it to me. The instant I caught it, the name "Haesslich" echoed through my mind in a hollow voice. I shook my head to clear it, then met his stare and knew Haesslich was Lattie's true name.

Given that Mr Drake is still "dating" Nadia Mirin in Never Deal With a Dragon, I'm pretty sure that's correct. Does that information confuse anyone's understanding of Mr Drake as he appears in the Secrets of Power Trilogy?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Black on <08-27-12/1939:38>
My reading was Mr Drake in the original noval was Haesslich as well.  Mr Drake was to original johnson which hired the team to 'extract' Twist, his GF (mostly as a cover story) and the real target.  He was to guy Twist assensed in the restruant.  Therefore, Mr Drake is Haesslich.

PS: does that mean Into the Shadows is set before Secrets of Power?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: AceFace on <08-28-12/0531:01>
Seeing as Never Deal With a Dragon was originally a short story in the collection, I guess it happens at the same sort of time?
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-29-12/0221:30>
As most of the shorts in 'Into the Shadows' take place within perhaps a week's time - been a while since I read it, so bear with me - and the Secrets of Power evolves out of one of its short stories, one can safely say that most of the Secrets of Power trilogy takes place well after 'Into the Shadows'.  I believe that even most of the very first of the Secrets, 'Never Deal With A Dragon', takes place after the myriad shadowruns involved in the metaplot of 'Into the Shadows'.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: Black on <08-29-12/0254:10>
Thanks Wyrm.. Thats interesting.  I was going to run a campaign based on the trilogy, but maybe I will give the Into the Shadows a look...
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: AceFace on <08-29-12/0339:56>
It's definitely worth a read, though it's a bit of a mixed bag. Some of the stories are great, others not so much. Also, as with all the early SR novels, there are some fairly questionable uses of Magic (i.e. the power levels way too high, or the use of it is really wonky). Well worth a read though and some of the characters in it turn up in the Secrets of Power trilogy too.
Title: Re: Sir Twist, Lofwyr, and Mr. Drake
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-29-12/0418:50>
As well as other places.  Striper, Fastjack ... etc. etc.  Many of these short-story characters got their own novel or novels.