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Overflow?

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Bishophawk

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« on: <09-02-19/0614:44> »
How does a person determine how many overflow boxes a character have

penllawen

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« Reply #1 on: <09-02-19/0618:36> »
SR6? If so, page 121:

"Sometimes a hit brings you closer to death than you ever really want to be, and you’ve got some Damage Overflow boxes to recover. These boxes are healed just like Physical Damage and need to be healed before the character can return to the land of the conscious. Note that if a character receives (Body x 2) boxes of Overflow damage, they are dead and gone, beyond the reach of any kind of healing."

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: <09-02-19/0706:44> »
To quote my notes:

Condition Monitors:
- B/2+8 P, W/2+8 S (p38)
- Each filled row a -1 on all tests except Damage Resistance (p38)
- Either monitor full makes unconscious (p38)
- Additional stun damage becomes physical, additional physical Overflow (p38, p121)
- Bodyx2 Overflow is lethal (p121)

And some other things:

- Surgery will never inflict Overflow damage
- Trauma Patches heal Overflow damage (1d6+1)
- Healing (Heal, First Aid, Med Kits, Regeneration) always heals Overflow first
- First Aid is less efficient at Overflow: 2 net hits required per box healed
- Resting Overflow works like resting for Physical damage
- Any Overflow damage means you're unconscious
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #3 on: <09-02-19/1053:45> »
To quote my notes:

Condition Monitors:
- B/2+8 P, W/2+8 S (p38)
- Each filled row a -1 on all tests except Damage Resistance (p38)
- Either monitor full makes unconscious (p38)
- Additional stun damage becomes physical, additional physical Overflow (p38, p121)
- Bodyx2 Overflow is lethal (p121)

And some other things:

- Surgery will never inflict Overflow damage
- Trauma Patches heal Overflow damage (1d6+1)
- Healing (Heal, First Aid, Med Kits, Regeneration) always heals Overflow first
- First Aid is less efficient at Overflow: 2 net hits required per box healed
- Resting Overflow works like resting for Physical damage
- Any Overflow damage means you're unconscious

Can you apply a Trauma Patch, then do First Aid/Med Kit?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <09-02-19/1108:53> »
Well I know healing methods can be done in any order but the main three have a maximum time lapsed. So without checking the book I say 'don't see why not'.
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Typhus

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« Reply #5 on: <09-02-19/1113:31> »
The change to Trauma Patches feels like it breaks something fundamental on a couple different levels.

First, overflow as I understood the idea was literally parts being blown off you.  You didn't just have a hole in you, you'd lost *chunks*.  When you were down the Trauma Patch was only ever an auto stabilize.  You still had penalties and problems arising from Overflow if you survived.  Now, it's just "apply the miracle patch and it never mattered".

The idea that a Trauma Patch can heal damage boxes is pretty game changing in itself, but then again, "overflow" also been redefined as this nebulous "extra damage", which makes that concept nearly meaningless.  You basically just have a vast extra reservoir of hit points that exist after you've been dropped.  They really only serve to soak a bunch of extra damage and still let you survive, and which have different healing mechanics, since they can be healed with any number of Trauma Patches, which somehow stop helping you after they hit this arbitrary cap.  It's like "damage but not damage" combined with "Healing potions that only work on the extra damage". 

Like most of 6E, it's another spot in the rules where things make zero sense, and break something that wasn't broken before. 

Here is a case where omission may as well be permission.  Nothing says you can't, so you may as well.  Overdamage works differently than regular damage, so there's nothing to stop you from putting on all the TPs you need to to heal it to 0, and then do the medkit and 1 action heal spells because I guess we're playing D&D now. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #6 on: <09-02-19/1121:38> »
It's been a few (or more than a few...) editions since Shadowrun dictated what body parts got destroyed when you suffer catastrophic damage.

Ever since some early Powers That Be decided it wasn't fun for magicians to forced to take essence hits (or run around missing eyes/limbs) the subject of the necessity for replacement "parts" has been pure GM fiat.  And attitudes have probably gotten to where a GM is thought of as being a Richard for telling a PC (especially one with Resonance or Magic) that a limb got blown off.

All that said, I do take a sadistic glee in the propensity for maimings in the "suggested" glitches/critical glitches in 6we.  My view is if the setting and rules prominently feature cybernetic replacement parts, why then do the only people who get them hack off/out perfectly working parts to employ them? Shouldn't people who, oh I don't know, had stuff BLOWN OFF be a sizeable proportion of those cybernetics-users? :D
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #7 on: <09-02-19/1137:51> »
I've seen people talk about their love for grounding and perm damage to players. If your table likes it, enjoy. But when people claim that's how Shadowrun should be played no matter what (and I have seen too many of those people) it really disqualifies their opinion to me. When that kind of avenue is used to attack 4e+, I consider it god advertisement instead.

Again, optional if your table likes it, sure. But if the game isn't Shadowrun unless a bad dodge and soak roll permanently damages your character solely because the GM is a sadist, who thinks the players are there to entertain the GM with their suffering, I suggest sticking to 2e.
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #8 on: <09-02-19/1150:59> »
Way I am reading RAW, you can Trauma Patch, First Aid, then Medkit back to back. Follow that up with a magic heal.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #9 on: <09-02-19/1157:03> »
Overflow
Body + Body - Wound Modifiers

Does this mean that when you try to heal Overflow naturally, you are subtracting the wound modifiers from the # of dice rolled?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #10 on: <09-02-19/1215:59> »
I have no idea. I have it as outstanding question. Might be a natural stabilization?
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GuardDuty

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« Reply #11 on: <09-02-19/1601:46> »

First, overflow as I understood the idea was literally parts being blown off you.  You didn't just have a hole in you, you'd lost *chunks*.  When you were down the Trauma Patch was only ever an auto stabilize.  You still had penalties and problems arising from Overflow if you survived.  Now, it's just "apply the miracle patch and it never mattered".


Overflow has always been a measurement of how long you have before dying from trauma, which in the context of Shadowrun can easily be envisioned as bleeding out.  After a quick glance at all the 2nd-5th corebooks, the "Exceeding your condition monitor" section that defines overflow does not mention "losing chunks" as part of the definition.  A separate section, "Deadly Wounds and Permanent Damage" (in 2nd) talks about a test to see if you took irreparable harm to a limb or organ, but it's a fairly low threshold to avoid.  Although there is a connection between the two, it doesn't appear they were intended to be the same thing in any edition.

evilgoattea

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« Reply #12 on: <04-02-21/2027:25> »
New to the forum.  Question.  Is there an actual bleed out mechanic?  I see when you get double your body in overflow you die.  I see that if either track fills up you are unconcious.  I also see that if your stun fills up you fall unconscious and then damage is converted to physical.

If you have 5 Body and 8 overflow damage is there a mechanic in place where you add more overflow every turn or is it simply when you take more damage in the fight is the only way to advance your overflow damage.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #13 on: <04-02-21/2053:15> »
No, there isn't a bleed-out mechanic.  Once you're into overflow, you only take more overflow if you keep getting attacked or "pinged" by ongoing, damaging statuses like Burning or Poisoned.

Also note that the concept of a "stabilized" status is no longer a thing in this edition.  Trauma patches (and magical equivalents) outright heal overflow damage instead of stopping the bleeding, since the bleeding isn't a thing anymore.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.