[Wakshaani]

For those curious, I've pushed all teh questions here upstairs Officially.

If there're any new ones, now that the printed copies are out, let me know!

This is the place.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

For those curious, I've pushed all teh questions here upstairs Officially.

If there're any new ones, now that the printed copies are out, let me know!

This is the place.

Even the Drug questions...? Cause we are never been given a single answer about any of the issues with chapter since the very 1st page.

[Wakshaani]

I highlighted those, as they were something that I couldn't personally give an opinion on, since, you know... not my work.

So, yes, every single question here, including the ones I answered, were passed up, sans my own commentary, to ensure that a value-neutral reading could be made. It'll take some time to process, naturally, since work on (Future Product) is progressing, but as soon as it's available, it'll get dropped in.

Until then, I'll be here to address any other questions I can and take notes. This stuff's important after all!

[Slamm-O!]

Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?
 
I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility. 

[Teknodragon]

Thanks, Wakshaani! There's stuff that just plain gets missed sometimes, and it's fun to provide feedback.

[Wakshaani]

Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?
 
I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility.

I need to get me hands on the physical book soon. I'm curious to see exactly where soem of the stuff landed. I know the playtesters changed some stuff... some pieces went up in Essence, Nuyen, or both, while some rules got changed as well. I don't think Skimmers currently grant a stealth penalty, do they?

Regardless, what was the question about Run/Walk speed? A clarification I know that needed to be made was that doubled-double isn't the go to, but rather you use an additive property. That is to say, if you had two augmentations that doubled your speed, it'd actually be 100% speed (normal) + 100% (upgrade #1) + 100% (upgrade #2) = 300% of starting speed, not Speed * 2 * 2, for 400% of starting speed. But that's not laid out anywhere so fell out of the overall list.

At this rate, I might have to write another 10,000 words for Chrome Flesh just to give examples of everything! (Not that I'd mind, as long as they'd pay me. I'll write *anything* if you start tossing cash at me!)

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?

Regardless, what was the question about Run/Walk speed?

The question he's trying to ask is... Do you use Natural Agility or Cyberlegs Agility to determine Movement Rate?

This is part of a very vocal minority whenever the Cyberlimbs threads come up that are not happy about how the Rules read. It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes. But what constitutes a Task as opposed to a Test is the part they want to debate about because they want to use Str/Agi as complete dump stats at 1 and then be unhappy that this causes problems. To be fair.... this is a 5th Edition issue since we didn't have Limits & Movement was calculated by Metatype before.

This is pretty much a complete non-issue after Redliner Quality and/or just not having Str/Agi at 1. It did kinda bother me before but Chromed Flesh really made the issues inherent before with just Core SR5 go away is utilized properly.

I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility.

Partial Cyberlegs in an twinked out elf is how you accomplish this.

[Novocrane]

It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes.

If it were undeniable, there wouldn't be anyone questioning it. The hard facts of the matter are that there hasn't been an official statement, that it's possible to interpret in different ways, and that a freelancer unofficially supported one particular stance.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes.

If it were undeniable, there wouldn't be anyone questioning it. The hard facts of the matter are that there hasn't been an official statement, that it's possible to interpret in different ways, and that a freelancer unofficially supported one particular stance.

Not to derail the thread into 5 pages of people who can't/won't accept the rules but here how it's "undeniable"...

Physical Limit
Pg 47
Your character has three inherent limits—Physical, Mental, and Social—that are derived from their attributes (p. 51).

Pg 455
Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings.

Undeniable.

Movement
Pg 62
Characters cannot exceed their calculated Run Rate...

We have already established that Calculation is based upon Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes. There being no Specific Rule to override the General Rule about Movement, then we are left with the Specific Rule about Cyberlimbs Attributes that say that they aren't used  in Calculations.

Undeniable.


You can ask for a Specific Rule to be added which will change how it currently functions by RAW, cause you don't like it. But don't pretend that it's unclear how it functions by RAW. That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me. I'm perfectly ok with Houseruling that Movement is based off of Cyberlimb Agility or if they officially changed it for the same effect. It's the pages and pages every time this issue comes up saying that the Rules are unclear, they are very clear... people just don't like the answer.

[Darzil]

Although I'm very happy to make GM calls on it, as I don't run missions legal stuff, it would be nice to have a call on some common things, maybe as examples, for when to use what stats for cyberlimbs.

So, the example given of Cyberlegs, movement based on body agility (current RAW), average of cyberleg and natural (sounds ungainly), agility unless you have two cyberlegs, then lowest of them (how I'd gm it).

Or consider two handed weapons - average of both arms (how I interpret RAW) or primary arm only, other just used for steadying (how Herolab interprets RAW).

I suspect 4-5 examples could make pages and pages of argument redundant.

[Wakshaani]

Agreed on examples, and I plan on making quite a few of those. Walking people through a few builds of Modular Limbs, for example.

[Novocrane]

That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me.

We can agree that this is clearly a bothersome subject for you. I have no intention of arguing over it with you, as you seem to find it difficult to be less than abrasive. Suffice to say I've read the same book, and not reached the same conclusions.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me.

We can agree that this is clearly a bothersome subject for you. I have no intention of arguing over it with you, as you seem to find it difficult to be less than abrasive. Suffice to say I've read the same book, and not reached the same conclusions.

Of course not... a debate/argument would require you to refute my points, which you can't do. "Not Liking It" isn't a Logical Point... but still an acceptable position, just go with it.

Hopefully the Examples will fix this... either by changing RAW or by providing even more proof that not liking how the Rules work doesn't change them. I didn't like the Rules about this either but Chromed Flesh fixed all the Balance issues pretty well. Changing the Rules now just means that everyone is going to be running around at 120kph/75mph, which brings up other balance issues.

[Novocrane]

Won't != Can't. There's no requirement here for me to deal with your drek directly - particularly when you're so clearly going to be obstinate on the matter.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Won't != Can't. There's no requirement here for me to deal with your drek directly - particularly when you're so clearly going to be obstinate on the matter.

Won't = Never Have = Can't