[Raven2049]

Now that DT version has got a street date http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2015/08/26/september-street-dates/ Hopefully we will get some responses within the next month and a few weeks before the remaining few cons of the year so we know whats legal and whats not along with any errata.

[Lucean]

Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?

Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.

New options have to reference the basics. Since Cyber and Bio have been defined and Genetech is neither, they would have needed to repeat the available grades. But as of now Genetech has no connection to the grade rules from the CRB. So Novocrane is right in both responses.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?

Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.

New options have to reference the basics. Since Cyber and Bio have been defined and Genetech is neither, they would have needed to repeat the available grades. But as of now Genetech has no connection to the grade rules from the CRB. So Novocrane is right in both responses.

Have I not conceded the point enough...? OK for a third fucking time it's not mentioned!!! This could be due to a oversight or assumption that it was clear are 2 reasons for this being so as it has in other instances before. But even if it is INTENDED under the new PSD process to not come in Grades, that still leaves plenty of room for Houserule that you got it done more than 3 years ago under the Nanite process which did come in Grades during Chargen at least.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Real Errata Post

Narco & Stimm Patches. You can create an unintended feedback loop to remove 6S an hour by using Rating 1 Stimm Patches. Rating 1 Stimm Patches removes 1S for 10 minutes & gives back 2S, Narco reduces 2S from a Drug crash. That makes it a net total of -1S every 10 minutes... that's the most efficient way to do it but it will "heal" 1S off every Stimm Patch regardless of Rating.

[prionic6]

If a player did that at our table they would get whacked with the biggest rule book in reach for 3S damage.

[Top Dog]

Ah, so that's what you meant by that.

Stimmpatches aren't drugs. They're not listed under drugs and they don't use their rules. So RAW, it doesn't work. And it's not like you can bring RAI into play here...

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Ah, so that's what you meant by that.

Stimmpatches aren't drugs. They're not listed under drugs and they don't use their rules. So RAW, it doesn't work. And it's not like you can bring RAI into play here...

I wish... I hate the new Drug interaction Table & if they make it so I don't have to use it, I'll be super happy. Until then we have RAW...

Stim patch: This patch removes a number of boxes of Stun damage equal to its Rating. This effect lasts for (Rating x 10) minutes—after that period of time, the pa- tient takes (Rating + 1) unresisted Stun damage (which may be well become physical overflow by that point). While a stimulant patch is in effect, the character is unable to rest. Frequent use of stimulant patches may require Addiction Tests. Treat it as Addiction Rating 2, Addiction Threshold 1.

From Jackpoint conversation about using Stim Patches...

It isn’t just street drugs. A street samurai I used to run
with used jazz on a regular basis to give him that edge during combat. He once got hit by a spell and was just about knocked out. Then he slapped on a stim patch to counteract the effects and went into cardiac arrest. There’s nothing as hair-raising as doing CPR on
someone in the middle of combat.
> Thorn

So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.

[ProfGast]

So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.

Er, Neither of your quotes appear to address Top Dog's statement. 

Any drug that deals damage when it wears off deals two less damage,

Emphasis mine.  Top Dog's argument is that a Stim Patch is not a Drug, as such, since all street drugs are listed in an effect-by-usage with a full table of boosts and downsides, while a Stim Patch is listed only under Slap Patches at a per-rating listing.  Granted your interpretation might fly for some people but as has been mentioned most tables will apply the thrown rulebook methodology.

In any case your quote of Thorn actually supports Top Dog's interpretation.

It isn’t just street drugs … … Then he slapped on a stim patch…

seems to imply that Stim Patches aren't in fact drugs.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.

Er, Neither of your quotes appear to address Top Dog's statement. 

Any drug that deals damage when it wears off deals two less damage,

Emphasis mine.  Top Dog's argument is that a Stim Patch is not a Drug, as such, since all street drugs are listed in an effect-by-usage with a full table of boosts and downsides, while a Stim Patch is listed only under Slap Patches at a per-rating listing.  Granted your interpretation might fly for some people but as has been mentioned most tables will apply the thrown rulebook methodology.

In any case your quote of Thorn actually supports Top Dog's interpretation.

It isn’t just street drugs … … Then he slapped on a stim patch…

seems to imply that Stim Patches aren't in fact drugs.

So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug? Please explain that logic... Thorn saying that "it's not just street drugs" is saying that Medical Drugs qualify as well. So it reinforces the point most eloquently... but again I'm truly curious at how Stim Patches being specifically stated to be a Drug means it's not a Drug. Just because it's in a different section doesn't mean that it's a different thing when it still has all the same Rules applied.

[ProfGast]

So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug?

Made some minor but important changes there.  There are things that are not "drugs" per se and are also addictive (the easiest example being BTLs.)  In any case like I said, your point is arguable but liable to be booked.

In any case can you give me a reference page for drug interaction?  I admit to having not actually read THAT section in depth but I see no mention of Stimpatches on page 192 under "Drug Interactions"

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug?

Made some minor but important changes there.  There are things that are not "drugs" per se and are also addictive (the easiest example being BTLs.)  In any case like I said, your point is arguable but liable to be booked.

In any case can you give me a reference page for drug interaction?  I admit to having not actually read THAT section in depth but I see no mention of Stimpatches on page 192 under "Drug Interactions"

Drug interaction Table is on pg 193... Thorn story shows that Stim Patches count for the Drug Interaction Table (+7 on the roll would do it). So Stim Patches have a Drug Addiction Rating & a Drug Addiction Rating.. since they use the Drug Interaction Table. Trauma Patches do so as well... they are all "Drugs" just as much as something like Zero. The "Medicine" a doctor gives you is still a "Drug!" Look I wish I was wrong & you were right by RAW... unfortunately I am right & you are wrong. If Stim Patches got taken off the Drug Interaction Table... I'd be ecstatic!!! Especially if all the Slap Patches were pulled off the DIT cause using them is the not the time I want to be worrying about a bad roll killing me.

[ProfGast]

Ah I see it.  Next time you quote shadowtalk please provide page numbers so we (and possible errata writers) can cross reference.

 Fluff to prove a crunch which is broken by crunch in a different section.  Fair enough.   First it's fluff in my crunch and then its' crunch in my fluff.  Still book-throwing material if I ever did see it.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Ah I see it.  Next time you quote shadowtalk please provide page numbers so we (and possible errata writers) can cross reference.

 Fluff to prove a crunch which is broken by crunch in a different section.  Fair enough.   First it's fluff in my crunch and then its' crunch in my fluff.  Still book-throwing material if I ever did see it.

I'm with you... been harping about it since pg. 1 of this thread. Fair enough... my bad for not fully laying out how it all works since you need to connect like 6 different pieces across 2 books to put it all together.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Real Errata Clarification Post

I'm looking for Clarification on the Internal Router & SmartLink interaction as far as Wireless Bonuses goes as well as some clean up from contradictory information about how Smartlink/Smartgun functions in SR5.

So Internal Router gives the Smartlink access to the Smartgun System through Datajack/Implanted Commlink... does it provide all Wireless Bonuses because the Smartgun System is Wireless On and doing all the processing for the System?

This allows the use of some wireless functionality, such as the quick-loading function of a smartgun or the engagement of a smuggling compartment CF pg. 84

Wireless: A wireless smartlink provides a dice pool bonus to all attacks with the weapon: +1 if you’re using gear with a smartlink or +2 if you’re using an augmen- tation for which you paid Essence. Ejecting a clip and changing fire modes are Free Actions. SR5 pg. 433

I ask this because of the issue I ran across between the Wind section of the Environmental Modifiers saying that it was the Smartlink Accessories doing it but the Smartlink & Smartgun System says that the Smartgun System is doing it. Here's that post as well for clarification of the issue I ran into... I'm probably just over thinking this to hard and making it more complicated than it really is.

I just reread all the Rules and it is kinda contradictory... the Smartgun System says that it's doing all the calculations and broadcasting the information for the Smartlink to pick up & process

The system makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing for precisely calculated trajectories and high precision over any distance. SR5 pg. 433

But the Environmental Modifiers on Wind say it's the Smartlink that's doing it (what threw me off)

Wind modifiers are mitigated by smartlink accessories that calculate adjustments before the shot SR5 pg. 175

yet the Smartlink says that the Smartgun System is doing all the work

The smartgun will tell you the range to various targets, as well as ammunition level (and type), heat buildup, mechanical stress and so on. Without a smartlink, a smartgun system just sends out data that isn’t received by anyone and has no effect. SR5 pg. 444

[Darzil]

I suspect it's a more general clarification on Internal Router, as it clearly works for some wireless bonuses, but not others, and which isn't clear, so is a lot of GM calls.

The explanation for most wireless bonuses (sometimes in fluff, sometimes in crunch, sometimes by players) was that the device had to rely on distributed processing power or information sources on the Matrix. Some never fitted that well, and would be good candidates for Internal Router.

I hope none of my players want one, don't really want to have to make calls on everything a player considers fitting.