[voydangel]

I'd still like to see the build. I mean, you can only spend 200 BP on attributes, so... if it's not a legal build for karma then it most likely isn't legal for BP either.

[Kontact]

Ultimate Karma Sink -  Credit: Karoline of DS

This character is made with 400 bp and is worth 1323 karma.

Bear Shifter: 80/80
Bod:16 95/500 Str:13 60/315 Log:1 0 Edge:1 0
Agi:1 0 Cha:1 0 Wil:1 0 Ess:6
Rea:1 0 Int:5 40/70 Ini:2 Magic:5(4) 40/70

Qualities:0/0
Exceptional Attribute (Body) 20
Adept 5
Surge 10
*Metagenic Improvement (Body) (20)
*Fuzzybutt (-10)
In Debt 6 -30
SINner -5

Skills:
Blades 6 24/44

Knowledge Skills:
Local Geography 6 Free/22
Local Wildlife 6 Free/22
Local Plants 6 Free/22

Contacts:2/4
Some guy 1/1

Powers:
Various Powers.

Binding:
Weapon Focus F2 2/10
Weapon Focus F2 2/10
Power Focus F2 2/16
Centering Focus F2 2/12
Masking Focus F2 2/12

Equipment: 49/98
Genetic Optimization (Body) 45000
Genetic Optimization (Str) 45000
Weapon Focus (Axe) F2 20000
Weapon Focus (Axe) F2 20000
Power Focus F2 50000
Centering Focus F2 30000
Masking Focus F2 20000
Other Stuff 45000

For the reverse...

Okay, so looks like the best you can do is 750 BP from a 750 Karma character. I couldn't find anything that cost more BP than Karma. Start with human, raise all stats to 2, then grab every skill in the book (and chemistry and arcana, but no magic or resonance skills) which is 60 skills, and raise them all to 2 and spec them (minus exotic weapon and exotic vehicle), that brings you up to 676 karma spent at 1:1 ratio. Then you just grab more exotic weapon and vehicle skills at 2 until you reach 750. Drop a spec somewhere if you need to even the stuff out for 750 points.

Doesn't play well at all of course, but you do have a truest of true jack of all trades, with a DP of 4 in everything and alot of 6s floating around from specs.

I'm sure you could easily hit around 600 BP from a character that you'd actually play.

[Mäx]

I'd still like to see the build. I mean, you can only spend 200 BP on attributes, so... if it's not a legal build for karma then it most likely isn't legal for BP either.

Nostrefatu with Exceptional Attribute (Logic), Surge 1 and Metagenic Improvement (Logic) + 30 BP worth of negative qualities
Charisma 7
Intuition 8
Logic 10
Willpower 5
= 200 BP
Edge 6
=620 karma for the stats, except your not actually allowed to spend nearly that
Add in the 300karma for being Nostrefatu and we're allready in 920 karm and haven't yeat bought the ton of knowledge skills the BP version gets for free.

[esprism]

Okay, so looks like the best you can do is 750 BP from a 750 Karma character. I couldn't find anything that cost more BP than Karma. Start with human, raise all stats to 2, then grab every skill in the book (and chemistry and arcana, but no magic or resonance skills) which is 60 skills, and raise them all to 2 and spec them (minus exotic weapon and exotic vehicle), that brings you up to 676 karma spent at 1:1 ratio. Then you just grab more exotic weapon and vehicle skills at 2 until you reach 750. Drop a spec somewhere if you need to even the stuff out for 750 points.

Doesn't play well at all of course, but you do have a truest of true jack of all trades, with a DP of 4 in everything and alot of 6s floating around from specs.

I'm sure you could easily hit around 600 BP from a character that you'd actually play.

The best ratio for Karma is 1BP for 1Karma, but don't forget 35 points of disadvantages that give you 70 karma. (minus 37 karma free skills you loose in karma gen if you want to consider that point)

For previous examples, you can make better because for example willpower 5 make you loose points and it' the same with all skills that are under 1BP for 2 karma ratio.

I only compute max bp/karma ratio for classics meta-types so it's probably possible to make better with others. My example with a troll is legal in term of rules and use only 175 BP in attributes :
40 BP for troll (40 karma)
str 13 cost 85 BP or 350 karma (only maxed attribute)
body 10 cost 50 BP or 200 karma
int 5 is over 1bp for 2 karma ratio because of free knowledge skills (40 BP for 70 karma)
free skills give you 55 karma (1 skill at 6, 3 skills at 4)
gear 50 points or 100 karma
135 BP remaining in contacts for example (270 karma)
Advantages 30 points (excep attr 20. grim 10)
Disadvantages 30 points
Total 400 BP or 1085 karma.

It's possible to compare karma or bp cost but impossible to know if a character is better or not because "points" are nor representative of character effectiveness. The example I give is not a playable character, just a thing about I was curious. There's no point in term of gaming to know what is the maximum ratio you can make but it can give you hints to make your own idea about karma/BP systems.

[Wraith235]

is there a place where we can download the German Errata ?

[Rockopolis]

Sorry if it's impolite to necro this, but I'm poking around with Karma Gen.  It did seem kind of odd that I went from scraping for points to Doc Savage, and now I hear that there's errata adjusting it.

Where is the errata, I didn't see any on the Catalyst Game Labs site?

Then again, I'm not sure how loudly I should complain; 9 Logic is only 132 points.  Even if I use x5, it's only 220 points.

[Operator]

I have a link to the post describing it in my signature.

[Rockopolis]

Thank you.  I guess I'll just make a character both ways.

EDIT: Actually, one more question.  Non-Errata'd, does this attribute block look okay?  Did I mess up my spreadsheet or something, because this is Doc Savage.

For an Elf, the limit should be (750/2)+30*2=435.  I have my mentat attribute/gear spread.
Abilities   435
STR   2   6
BOD   4   27
AGI   5   42
REC   5   42
INT   5   42
LOG   9   132
WIL   5   42
CHA   7   81
EDGE   4   27
MAGIC/RESONANCE   3   15
Initiative   10   1P

EDIT EDIT:
And what I believe is the German Errata'd version.

Abilities   434
STR   2   10
BOD   3   25
AGI   3   25
REC   3   25
INT   4   45
LOG   9   220
WIL   4   45
CHA   3   25
EDGE   2   10
MAGIC/RESONANCE   3   25
Initiative   7   1P

[Operator]

You forgot the beginning ranges Elves have to Agility (2-7) and Charisma (3-8). The natural attribute cap on Logic is 6 for elves.

(Non errata)
AGI 5 {36}
CHA 7 {66}
LOG 6 (Hardcapped) {60}

(Errata)
AGI 3 {15}
CHA 3 {0}
LOG 6 (Hardcapped) {100}

[Rockopolis]

I have SURGE's Metagenic Improvement, Exceptional Attribute, and Genetic Optimization.  My natural limit is 9, and my augmented limit (saving up for Cerebral Boosters and more Psyche) is 13.  Which would make them as smart as a non-great dragon can be.

But with that in mind, does it look like I have the right numbers?  It just seems like I have absurdly high stats across the board.

[Operator]

I missed those traits.

Agility/Charisma and total numbers aside, then your spread would be correct.

[Rockopolis]

Wow.  That is...something.  Apparently I'm a fan of Karma Generation now.

[Triggvi]

You get more bang for your buck with more well rounded characters in Karma-gen. I am huge fan of Karma-gen. Even using the german errata.

[Rockopolis]

I...don't really see this as well rounded.  More like a huge spike and then above average everywhere else.

[Triggvi]

if you try and do the normal min/maxing that is done in BP. You get a character that is subpar compared to BP. (x5 attributes and paying for your race with karma-gen.)