Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: flatlyne2001 on <09-16-10/1759:07>
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My char wields dual pistols at times, my question is would you add your dice for smartlink before or after splitting?
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Pg 150 of SR4 anniversary edition states:
"Two-gun attacks also negate any dice pool bonuses from smartlinks or laser sights"
So you don't get the smartlinking bonus at all.
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As a GM, I might allow the bonus to apply once if you're focusing all attacks on a single target. You may have two guns, but your two eyes are hardcoded to focus on a single target.
Of course, that brings up cybereyes/SURGE Lizard eyes/Adept powers that allow you to see through, control and interpret each eye individually... Hmm... ;)
Okay... Maybe it's good that the RAW say "No". ;D
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In general, dice pool modifiers apply after splitting. For example, if you have a tacnet with +3 bonus, it will add to both attacks, and if you're firing blind, it's -6 to both attacks. There are a few specific exceptions: As noted above, you lose smartgun/laser bonuses entirely, and some mods like Multi-Strike apply before splitting.
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Actually, you can apply the smartlink when wielding two guns, but not by making two shot in the same action (so not when you split your dice pool).
Example : you have two ruger S.warhawk. One is affiliated to the smartlink, the other not at this time.
- Simple action : you shot with the first ruger, you can aply the smartlink
- Automatic action : you switch the affilieted ruger from the first to the secondth
- Simple action : you shot with the secondth ruger, you can apply the smartlink (but the off hand modifier too)
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By RAW the first response is correct. Anything else does not seem to be supported by 4Ea and thus may be considered a house ruling. I do not mean to step on any toes if you have additional information that refutes this then please post so we may know the rules better
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Actually, you can apply the smartlink when wielding two guns, but not by making two shot in the same action (so not when you split your dice pool).
Example : you have two ruger S.warhawk. One is affiliated to the smartlink, the other not at this time.
- Simple action : you shot with the first ruger, you can aply the smartlink
- Automatic action : you switch the affilieted ruger from the first to the secondth
- Simple action : you shot with the secondth ruger, you can apply the smartlink (but the off hand modifier too)
Whilst you are correct that isnt the answer to the question at hand.
When dealing with firing two guns At the same time you lose your smartlink bonus.
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Yep, I just wanted to make a precision about "smartlink not applying when you use two weapons". It too easily could be misinterpreted.
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Thanks everyone for the responses.
Since I'm using both Ambi quality and cybereyes, maybe I'll work with my GM on a house rule for this.
I mean granted going from 19dice down to 17 wouldn't be worst thing in the world but when you have a PhysAdept in your group using 23'ish dice for each attack you need all the dice you can due to monster toughness creep.
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As I understand it, Smartlinks do not apply to firing two-handed.
Ambidextrous eliminates the -2 off-hand penalty you get when you shoot with two guns.
As for what kind of attacks you can do while dual-wielding pistols, that is a whole different story.
What the rules say and what people want to do sometimes differ.
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Personally, I think firing two Ruger Warhawks (each one only once, but with Smartlink bonus and with no recoil problem for both shots) is quite stylish for an ambidextrous character :-)
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As I understand it, Smartlinks do not apply to firing two-handed.
Only if your firing both guns at the same time, if you shoot only one of them at a time smartlink applies.
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Actually, you can apply the smartlink when wielding two guns, but not by making two shot in the same action (so not when you split your dice pool).
Example : you have two ruger S.warhawk. One is affiliated to the smartlink, the other not at this time.
- Simple action : you shot with the first ruger, you can aply the smartlink
- Automatic action : you switch the affilieted ruger from the first to the secondth
- Simple action : you shot with the secondth ruger, you can apply the smartlink (but the off hand modifier too)
TO me, that is a way to get around the RAW. Making an attack on one target with two guns is firing two guns. That should go under the rule in the book. Different strokes but yeah. Not well explained to be sure.... :)
And as I understand the rules, you always split the dice poll when using two guns. It is not the most well explained rule I have to say.
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As I understand it, Smartlinks do not apply to firing two-handed.
Only if your firing both guns at the same time, if you shoot only one of them at a time smartlink applies.
If you want to shoot one at a time, lose a gun. That is how I run it. By RAW, it says two guns means split dice pool and no smartlink. I may have a different interpretation of this however, it is not very well explained. I just think that you shouldn't be able to get around the rule by shooting "one at a time". If you are shooting both guns in the same IP then you use the rules under Using A Second Firearm in the book.
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Nope, the rules under "Using A Second Firearms" are used when you are firing TWO guns with ONE simple action and not when firing TWO guns with TWO simple actions. Two guns, one action -> Split pool, no smartlink. Two guns, two actions -> Combat as usual. Would be kind of strange to split the pool for firing two guns in two actions when firing one gun twice in two actions doesn't split the pool :-)
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As I understand it, Smartlinks do not apply to firing two-handed.
Only if your firing both guns at the same time, if you shoot only one of them at a time smartlink applies.
If you want to shoot one at a time, lose a gun. That is how I run it. By RAW, it says two guns means split dice pool and no smartlink. I may have a different interpretation of this however, it is not very well explained. I just think that you shouldn't be able to get around the rule by shooting "one at a time". If you are shooting both guns in the same IP then you use the rules under Using A Second Firearm in the book.
If i'm using a single handed gun it doesn't matter what my other hand is doing, your reading makes as much sence as saying "if you use your first simple action to flip a bird(show your middle finger) to the bad guy and your second to shoot him you have to split your pool and cant use smartlink". Your not using a second firearm, unless you shoot it with the same action as the first one.
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Personally, I think firing two Ruger Warhawks (each one only once, but with Smartlink bonus and with no recoil problem for both shots) is quite stylish for an ambidextrous character :-)
Yes, but when it comes to relaod the both ruger, he just will cry.
- a simple action to undraw one of the two rugers
- a complex action to reload the other
- a simple action to undraw the other ruger
- a simple action to draw the first ruger
- a complex action to reload the first ruger
Now you're ready. After 3,5 IP. Yay !
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Personally, I think firing two Ruger Warhawks (each one only once, but with Smartlink bonus and with no recoil problem for both shots) is quite stylish for an ambidextrous character :-)
Yes, but when it comes to relaod the both ruger, he just will cry.
- a simple action to undraw one of the two rugers
- a complex action to reload the other
- a simple action to undraw the other ruger
- a simple action to draw the first ruger
- a complex action to reload the first ruger
Now you're ready. After 3,5 IP. Yay !
If there are still enemies standing after your Warhawks are empty, your doing it wrong:)
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I do believe this was covered in one the Dev chats last year. I do believe it was under Peter's reign (Long Live the King). It was said that if you do fire a Pistol, SMG or whatever in SA mode one at a time. Thus using TWO simple actions you did not split your pool and you got all your mods. If you used ONE simple action to fire two guns then pool was split then ADD all your mod MINUS the smartlink.
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Now you're ready. After 3,5 IP. Yay !
Free Action - let go of both guns
Simple Action - Quickdraw new gun and fire
Simple Action - Quickdraw second new gun and fire
I don't see the problem :-)
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Man, it's two rugers, the coolest guns on earth, you can't just let them go like this ! it's an offense !
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Drop and draw more is the classic solution to this problem, both in real life and in action movies. :)
Although that makes me wonder about something ... best to ask in a new thread.