Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Shadowwalker on <09-05-10/1932:38>
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Greetings all.
I was wondering if the math is correct when Troll adept with mystic armor is wearing Full body Form fit, a Great coat, and the the full Secure tech PPC system?
Troll +1/1
Mystic Armor +4/4
Form Fit +6/2
Great Coat +6/5
Forearm Guards +0/+1
Helmet +0/+2
Arm & Leg casing +1/+1
Shin Guards +0/+1
Vitals Protection +1/+1
Total armor/19/18
Note the troll has a Body of 9 so it is not exceeding the 2X body mark
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Greetings all.
I was wondering if the math is correct when Troll adept with mystic armor is wearing Full body Form fit, a Great coat, and the the full Secure tech PPC system?
Troll +1/1
Mystic Armor +4/4
Form Fit +6/2
Great Coat +6/5
Forearm Guards +0/+1
Helmet +0/+2
Arm & Leg casing +1/+1
Shin Guards +0/+1
Vitals Protection +1/+1
Total armor/19/18
Note the troll has a Body of 9 so it is not exceeding the 2X body mark
That looks correct to me.
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Scary, but correct.
This is why you ALWAYS hit the troll with the mana spells
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yep and he's the groups melee specialist/ stealth specialist
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"Hey Lenny, did you just see a huge black blob walk by that door?"
"Nah. You gotta lay off those BTLs, Joey."
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Yup, all those things stack. Keep in mind that a troll's natural dermal armor, and mystic armor, don't count at all for encumbrance, and the form-fitting body armor only counts as 3/1 for encumbrance purposes. So he is not even close to being encumbered. Wait until he has a few runs under his belt, and gets some SWAT armor...
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As a GM I have to say I LOVE these kinds of characters. I'll even help them out and give them even better equipment to maximize their sense of invulnerability. It makes it even better when they are suddenly left bereft of their exceptional scores. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ermmm excuse me I mean yes those numbers add correctly.
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Yep looks all correct to me too.
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Thanks that helps a lot
The funny is that as GM I notice that even without Mana bolting him 3/5ths of the time the Party has had to carry his unconscious troll body away from a fight. he never takes body but lots of stun damage usually from nickel and dime stun in melee. he is good at tieing up the bad guys heavy hitters and keeping them away from the squishys in the party
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You need to get him a pain editor then ;)
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The absolutely scary part is, while mana spells definately hurt him, that armor can still be breached pretty easily. Even at character creation someone can take an assault rifle with EX ammo that reduces armor by 2, make it a HV weapon capable of firing long bursts, put enough recoil compensation upon it to negate the first long burst, make a called shot to boost damage by 4, and make an aimed narrow long burst capable of doing:
Base damage: 6
long burst: +5
called shot: +4
EX ammo: +1
total: 16
And that is not including the extra hits for damage. While it is possible to negate the damage completely with the roll, that is really unlikely. And that is just a starting character with a modified AK 98. Keep in mind that while damage resistance is pretty sweet, not getting shot is better still.
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The absolutely scary part is, while mana spells definately hurt him, that armor can still be breached pretty easily. Even at character creation someone can take an assault rifle with EX ammo that reduces armor by 2, make it a HV weapon capable of firing long bursts, put enough recoil compensation upon it to negate the first long burst, make a called shot to boost damage by 4, and make an aimed narrow long burst capable of doing:
Base damage: 6
long burst: +5
called shot: +4
EX ammo: +1
total: 16
Only 11 of those count for armor penetration, so your not even close to doing physical damage to that Troll, but considering he most likely has a slower stun damage pool, doing stun damage isn't really a bad think.
Also thats pretty slow armor rating for a body 9 Troll with mystic armor 4, even my Dryad combat face has 11/11 armor.
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Don't forget that all PPP System components can come in a concealable style, made to be worn under armor or clothing, even the helmet.
So, he could have a regular helmet with a PPP helmet underneath it like a little metal yarmulke.
Also, it's not hard to build an HV weapon/character who can fire a full 11 round burst with no recoil penalties at chargen, if you've got the stones to chrome up. 8)
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The absolutely scary part is, while mana spells definately hurt him, that armor can still be breached pretty easily. Even at character creation someone can take an assault rifle with EX ammo that reduces armor by 2, make it a HV weapon capable of firing long bursts, put enough recoil compensation upon it to negate the first long burst, make a called shot to boost damage by 4, and make an aimed narrow long burst capable of doing:
Base damage: 6
long burst: +5
called shot: +4
EX ammo: +1
total: 16
Only 11 of those count for armor penetration, so your not even close to doing physical damage to that Troll, but considering he most likely has a slower stun damage pool, doing stun damage isn't really a bad think.
Also thats pretty slow armor rating for a body 9 Troll with mystic armor 4, even my Dryad combat face has 11/11 armor.
"Only" 11? :) We haven't included bonus damage from hits yet. A good roll pushes it above into lethal range rather quickly. And as you said, the smaller stun damage pool means that he will go down just as fast (perhaps faster). My point was that damage can accumulate quickly, even with a heavy armor setup.
The purpose of the armor was maximum concealability. Folks won't know that the troll is, in fact, heavily armored until the bullets start bouncing off of him. I think the best armor/damage resistance I've heard of at character creation was 40 dice (again, with a troll).
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"Only" 11? :) We haven't included bonus damage from hits yet. A good roll pushes it above into lethal range rather quickly.
7 nethits is pretty unlikely for most characters.
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The purpose of the armor was maximum concealability. Folks won't know that the troll is, in fact, heavily armored until the bullets start bouncing off of him. I think the best armor/damage resistance I've heard of at character creation was 40 dice (again, with a troll).
Most of the armor is pretty concealable, but the helmet would probably draw attention, even if he got an athletic-looking one. Although if he got the Urban Explorer Jumpsuit instead of the coat, along with something like a skateboard or skates, the helmet wouldn't look out of place.
Now, a chameleon suit with thermal dampening would be really scary, especially for a stealthy troll like this one.
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The purpose of the armor was maximum concealability. Folks won't know that the troll is, in fact, heavily armored until the bullets start bouncing off of him. I think the best armor/damage resistance I've heard of at character creation was 40 dice (again, with a troll).
Most of the armor is pretty concealable, but the helmet would probably draw attention, even if he got an athletic-looking one. Although if he got the Urban Explorer Jumpsuit instead of the coat, along with something like a skateboard or skates, the helmet wouldn't look out of place.
Now, a chameleon suit with thermal dampening would be really scary, especially for a stealthy troll like this one.
Book never says there isn't a concealable version of the PPP helmet. :)
Just wear a hat on top of it if you want to be discrete. ;)
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Do add in some armor mods to protect against thermal cold electricity radiation checmicals may as well lol
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"Only" 11? :) We haven't included bonus damage from hits yet. A good roll pushes it above into lethal range rather quickly.
7 nethits is pretty unlikely for most characters.
With 15 dice plus an edge reroll, the odds start moving in your favor.
Also, even if the 15 dice pool only gets 5 hits (for the average) that is a total of 21 stun. If the troll has average Willpower, and doesn't resist 11 points of damage, then he falls into physical from overflow. And he's unconscious. Ouch.
Even a more "reasonable" number of dice (like 8 to 10) produces enough hurt that the troll will either be unconscious or almost there. He's in trouble at that point. If he's alone that is (having a team to back you up is the A#1 thing in SR).
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Also, even if the 15 dice pool only gets 5 hits (for the average) that is a total of 21 stun. If the troll has average Willpower, and doesn't resist 11 points of damage, then he falls into physical from overflow. And he's unconscious. Ouch.
Even a more "reasonable" number of dice (like 8 to 10) produces enough hurt that the troll will either be unconscious or almost there. He's in trouble at that point. If he's alone that is (having a team to back you up is the A#1 thing in SR).
Earlier was talking Base Damage 6. 5 net hits gets you only 11 damage, right? Where does the 21 come from?
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I can see the half shirt form fitting body armor as concealable, no worries there.
The full body condom version of form fitting body armor seems about as concealable as a full wetsuit that covers the face and hands.
"The full-body suit covers the entire body, including the extremities, and comes with gloves, booties, and a hood." (Aresnal, pg 48)
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I can see the half shirt form fitting body armor as concealable, no worries there.
The full body condom version of form fitting body armor seems about as concealable as a full wetsuit that covers the face and hands.
"The full-body suit covers the entire body, including the extremities, and comes with gloves, booties, and a hood." (Aresnal, pg 48)
True, but I don't think you have to wear the gloves, booties and hood all the time. Kinda like Spider-man or Supes wearing their costume under their street clothes.
That reminds me, where the heck does Supes hide the cape?!?
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Also, even if the 15 dice pool only gets 5 hits (for the average) that is a total of 21 stun. If the troll has average Willpower, and doesn't resist 11 points of damage, then he falls into physical from overflow. And he's unconscious. Ouch.
Even a more "reasonable" number of dice (like 8 to 10) produces enough hurt that the troll will either be unconscious or almost there. He's in trouble at that point. If he's alone that is (having a team to back you up is the A#1 thing in SR).
Earlier was talking Base Damage 6. 5 net hits gets you only 11 damage, right? Where does the 21 come from?
Base damage: 6 +1 EX explosive ammo +4 called shot (-4 dice pool) produces a base of 11. With +5 from a narrow burst that gives a modified 16. With 5 net hits you get 21.
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I can see the half shirt form fitting body armor as concealable, no worries there.
The full body condom version of form fitting body armor seems about as concealable as a full wetsuit that covers the face and hands.
"The full-body suit covers the entire body, including the extremities, and comes with gloves, booties, and a hood." (Aresnal, pg 48)
True, but I don't think you have to wear the gloves, booties and hood all the time. Kinda like Spider-man or Supes wearing their costume under their street clothes.
That reminds me, where the heck does Supes hide the cape?!?
Down a leg.
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Also, even if the 15 dice pool only gets 5 hits (for the average) that is a total of 21 stun. If the troll has average Willpower, and doesn't resist 11 points of damage, then he falls into physical from overflow. And he's unconscious. Ouch.
Even a more "reasonable" number of dice (like 8 to 10) produces enough hurt that the troll will either be unconscious or almost there. He's in trouble at that point. If he's alone that is (having a team to back you up is the A#1 thing in SR).
Earlier was talking Base Damage 6. 5 net hits gets you only 11 damage, right? Where does the 21 come from?
Base damage: 6 +1 EX explosive ammo +4 called shot (-4 dice pool) produces a base of 11. With +5 from a narrow burst that gives a modified 16. With 5 net hits you get 21.
An heaven forbid someone goes full auto
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It is curious...do you think that Seattle was choosen as the central setting for Shadowrun because the designers knew that players would want to stack amor...like greatcoat, form fitting, helmet, forearm guards?
Just imagine living in Miami (say July) running around with all of that on. Seems to me that runners would be dropping like flies from heat exhaustion and dehydration. ;D
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It is curious...do you think that Seattle was choosen as the central setting for Shadowrun because the designers knew that players would want to stack amor...like greatcoat, form fitting, helmet, forearm guards?
Just imagine living in Miami (say July) running around with all of that on. Seems to me that runners would be dropping like flies from heat exhaustion and dehydration. ;D
Nah, Seattle was central because that's where most of them lived at the time... ;)
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No it wasn't. Fasa was based in Chicago! ;D
Maybe they put it in Seattle because they wanted to live where you wouldn't freeze to death in the winter and sweat to death in the summer. ???
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No it wasn't. Fasa was based in Chicago! ;D
Maybe they put it in Seattle because they wanted to live where you wouldn't freeze to death in the winter and sweat to death in the summer. ???
If I remember right, didn't The Bomb get dropped on where their first HQ was located?
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I believe that it did. ;D
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The cemack blast was at F.A.S.A. headquarters in Chicago home of a massive bug hive.
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Huh.... I remember a review that one of the authors/designers knew Seattle so well and/or he live there, which is why the Seattle books came out so well.
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I'm sure someone did live out that way
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Unless Mike pipes up on the forum we aren't likely to get an answer.
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I sent Mike an IM about that question last night. He was busy but said he would send me an email with the answer.
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Handy.
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I love digging for little trivia like this. ;D
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About armor and stacking, when you approaches such protection amounts by simply stacking common armors, doesn't it make milspec armors nearly useless ?
I find it at least paradoxal that the best SOTA hightech armors can't provide the best protection.
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As with any ruleset that tries to simulate a world we know (to a certain grade), it has holes. This is just a pretty good armored specimen ;D
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Staypuff Marshmellow Man...
Sure, you can throw all of that stuff on. You look silly, are going to be spotted a mile away, and will want to stop for a banana bag every hour. Not every hole has to be plugged with a rule, not every rule plugs a hole.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't anything besides the helmet be covered by the coat?
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About armor and stacking, when you approaches such protection amounts by simply stacking common armors, doesn't it make milspec armors nearly useless ?
I find it at least paradoxal that the best SOTA hightech armors can't provide the best protection.
Even the lightest of milspec armors would only be a few points away from the original example, and there are other benefits to milspec as well, like capacity.
Going unnoticed, not so much :p
edit: looking at it again, the troll adept in full Oyoroi (the lightest milspec) would be at 18/18 + have 15 points of capacity to play with.
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Okay !
I'm curious : is there an option allowing to spend milspec armors capacity to increase its armor rating ?
All I found is gel packs, and I'm not even sure it applies to these armors.
EDIT : the other combo I've heard of is SWAT armor + form fitting + PPP. Didn't made the calculation, but think it goes far further than milspec : FFBA 6/2 + SWAT 12/10 + helmet +2/2, you're already at 20/12, without PPP options, without magical or cybernetic options nor race modifiers.
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I am sure that it would be covered by the trenchcoat.
Spotting body armor is relatively easily, police and security have every reason to be on the lookout for characters wearing body armor, ballistic helmet, carrying smgs, a dozen ammo mags, grenades, knives, katana swords, blocks of C4. You don't really need a rule to solve that problem just the willingness as a GM to give a gentle reminder (read...multiple SRT teams converging on the PCs) every so often.
If carrying the LMG into the Corp facility is going to cause more problems than it solves then perhaps its best to leave it at home. ;)
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I do agree, but when the choice you have to make involve a milspec armor on one hand, don't think discretion does matter anymore ^^
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Discretion always matters. ;D
Tactically speaking...shadowrunners are always going to lose in a protracted engagement. As soon as runners forget that rule, in my games, they are toast. Getting into combat is all too easy, breaking contact with the opposition and escaping that is the trick.
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Agreed. While there might be plans that require a Milspec armored troll with an LMG during the getaway, plans involving said troll on the way in are pretty much destined to fail. Except in military campaigns. *ahem*
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Actually, what disturbs me is more "why would a megacorp choose a milspec armor when she can get better and cheaper results with armor stacking ?" ^^"
I do agree options are pretty cool - I particulary like options about movement, mobility upgrade, hydraulic Jacks and so, which allow terrific tactics - but I've got difficulties to admit these armors are overtaken in protection by a simple basic armor stacking.
In SR3 these armors where hardened, no way hurting the wearer if the damage code was too weak, no test required, too bad there's no such rule here.
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Maintenance, storage, upgradeability, "visual impact" factor... take your pick.
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Also, the "stackable" armor can't store any of the extras. Milspec armor allows for much higher armor ratings before penalties accrue, as well. A weapon mount can also be added to the armor for that extra bit of heavy firepower.
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Wow, I've never looked closely at the SWAT armor before, that seems kind of silly. Effectively a milspec armor that stacks with form fitting and PPP? Ugh.
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Even cops dial 911. And when they do, you'd better be loooooong gone...
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This thread's pretty interesting. None of my characters, and really none of the others those I play with made, have been very armor heavy. We've always preferred to simply not get hit in the first place. But to each his own.
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It kind of feels like I am talking past a couple of posters here.
In my opinion, milspec armor belongs in military adventures not something to be found in your average Shadowrun.
Still my opinion, at the point where I see armor stacking get out of hand (and this is GM taste) I will give the player an OOC "really, that seems like a good idea to you?" Should they persist, they might get a random traffic stop by the Star (yeah, it may not be PC to profile but my cops at Lone Star do), a heat wave (if the time of year is appropriate), and so forth. Normally, it doesn't take too long for the message to sink in.
The point of keeping milspec armor in a certain range of protection is game balance (because the designers know that if it exists it is probably going to make its way into a situation where it doesn't really fit), if the only way to take out a guy wearing it is with an assault cannon things get skewed really fast.
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Honestly, the milspec armor seems fine, it's the swat and other "medium" body armors that seem a bit out of whack.
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if the only way to take out a guy wearing it is with an assault cannon things get skewed really fast.
"Military armor is wireless-enabled (automatically subscribed to the helmet’s commlink)"
I think I see a weak point.
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Mod it to be skinlinked.
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Actually, what disturbs me is more "why would a megacorp choose a milspec armor when she can get better and cheaper results with armor stacking ?" ^^"
Becouse she can actually wear the millspec armor and not get penalties, even if she's an elf or human.
Millspeck armor allows low body inviduals to wear much more armor then they could otherwise.
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Plus it just looks WAY cooler and more intimidating than a patchwork armor!
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Even though Milspec armour has bonuses and options etc, as a player I always thought donning milspec armour was like putting a huge target on your head and just inviting all sorts of trouble. My preferred option is to stack armour, particularly form fitting and a Mortimer of London Greatcoat plus cyberware and bioware. Try to go at least sort of low key, rather than begging my gm to drop a swat team on my head whenever I wander down to the Stuffer Shack.
I would rather draw aggro because I am standing in combat of my choosing gunning down combatants not because I have been seen by any number of people thinking 'who the f**k is that, hello 911?'. I usually have a similar view of weapons, usually.
8)
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Also, some of the Milspec capacity options allow for mods which would regularly make a player take cyberlimbs.
Stuff like cyberarm gyros and foot anchors are a great way to move up to the realm of High Velocity and Minigun firing.
Like, take a Vindicator minigun, drop on a GV3, personalized grip and hip pad brace for 5 RC. Then take two cyberarm gyros, and two foot anchors for another 8 RC. Finally, you might need to take the Strength Upgrade enhancement for a final point STR-related recoil reduction, and you're firing 15-round bursts with no recoil penalties.
14 cumulative RC. Rock and roll.
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GV is compatible with multi-barrel weapons...? Also, I don't think the Cyberarmgyro installed in both hands gives you double RC. Just use the normal gyro mount.
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GV is compatible with multi-barrel weapons...? Also, I don't think the Cyberarmgyro installed in both hands gives you double RC. Just use the normal gyro mount.
It certainly doesn't say that it can't take Gas Vents. And Cyberarm gyros are only listed as being incompatible with a regular gyromount harness. Why wouldn't two points of stabilization be better than one?
But yeah, it's probably better to just go with the Gyro Harness. That way you can use the HMG miniguns from the German Arsenal. (which I believe come with gas vents standard. ;))
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They would end up fighting each other, unless you had them linked together physically and with the appropriate software. The gyro harness has that all set up with a much larger gyro, so it becomes somewhat redundant.
And while you can stick gas vent on cyberguns, the venting would stand out and decrease concealability. One could build it into a cyberarm with an extra slot taken so that the venting doesn't open up until the weapon is deployed. After all, when you are already shooting at someone, who cares about concealing the gun?
Miniguns do not come with gas venting, but there is nothing saying that one cannot mount it on a minigun. Probably best to buy six gas vents for the GE minigun, since it has six barrels, just to keep the GM from having fits.
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Also, I don't think the Cyberarmgyro installed in both hands gives you double RC.
I think it does if the weapon is two handed.
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See above. The gyros would start working against each other unless you created a physical link (beyond just holding the same weapon) and got dedicated software to link them together. For larger weapons it is easier to just get the gyro mount.
If you wanna John Woo those machine pistols, then the pair of gyro's works just fine.
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See above. The gyros would start working against each other unless you created a physical link (beyond just holding the same weapon) and got dedicated software to link them together.
Sorry for your post above, I admit I just had difficulties to understand it.
For the software, can't your PAN just do it ?
And I thought gyros only stabilise an object, and couldn't work against each other since they only cancel forces applied to the object they're sticked on. I have seen recently a movie of an experience in zero gravity where an astronaut put some CD readers together with only some adhesive tap to create a stabilized object : one to three CD readers, and showing at each step how it reacted to a little push. At each step, when pushed, the object couldn't spin in a dimension, At the last step, if pushed, it translated through space without spinning.
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The gyros aren't fixed. They move and react to the motion of the object they are attached to in order to counter its motion. Or I may be thinking of something else, as while the gyro's "pop out" when activated to negate motion, the entry doesn't specify that the things continue to move as I have assumed.
Will have to revisit this. I may be entirely wrong in my line of thinking.
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As far as I understood, they only make very quick rotations, as any basic gryosscope, in order to minimize the object movements, they do not "react" to the object's motion ^^"
But assuming they react to the object's motion in real time, then the other gyro's effect can simply be integrated in the second gyro's reactions, as are all others objects' motions, whatever their source is.
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Arsenal page 148
Recoil compensation from an auto-adjusting weight, bipod,
foregrip, gyromount, sling, tripod, or underbarrel weight are
not cumulative with each other (except that the compensa-
tion from a foregrip and sling can be combined into an overall
recoil compensation of 2)
so no ... 2 Gyro in 2 Arms would not work
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And the rules have spoken!
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Gun Nut want to have real fun use two pistol grip shotguns modified with burst fire and a gyro mount in each hand.
Imagine the reaction of others hearing 6 rapid shotgun blasts.
That would convince me to keep my head down
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My friend made a John Woo style pistol fighter. He took two of the Ruger Thunderbolts (the ones that burst fire like super machineguns, except with shorter bursts and no recoil first busrt), smartlinked them, put in a single shot micro-grenade launcher in the underbarrel slot, and focused his skill (in 3rd edition, where the dice pools didn't get as big) so that he could fire each one with a 17+ dice pool for each gun.
He complained once, after downing two guys in really good armor with decent combat pools, that it took two bursts each to kill them instead of one...all in under 0.3 seconds (yes, we calculated that, he was that fast).
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yeah in 3rd edition shooting really well was kind of common, and with the old initiative system the players often nuked all in parts of a second. I knew some sam's that would regularly act 3 times before the mudanes moved. Usually killing 2 each phase.
One of the big reasons I like the new initiative system so much better
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yeah in 3rd edition shooting really well was kind of common, and with the old initiative system the players often nuked all in parts of a second. I knew some sam's that would regularly act 3 times before the mudanes moved. Usually killing 2 each phase.
One of the big reasons I like the new initiative system so much better
QFT
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yeah in 3rd edition shooting really well was kind of common, and with the old initiative system the players often nuked all in parts of a second. I knew some sam's that would regularly act 3 times before the mudanes moved. Usually killing 2 each phase.
With "old" you mean "2nd edition"?
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He must mean 2nd Ed
Bad as 3rd Ed was it had the same (better) Initiative-system as 4th Ed
with a better Dance
Medicineman
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Honestly, even after playing 2nd, 3rd and 4th edition, I'm still not sure if the 3rd ed. initiative was a good change. Of course, yes, it is more balanced for all non-extremly cybered or magiced, but somehow it is missing a certain flair. With the old system, a sam could start firing immediatly, with the new one, a sam must consider that after his first action, people will start throwing bullets in his direction - and thus the most sensible use for his first action is to get into cover. It's simply a different style...
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Well, since "Oh, BULLETS! Better get some fraggin' cover!" seems like the natural reaction to the outbreak of a gunfight me... it works for me ;)
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Try to take every opponent down BEFORE the "Oh bullets !" reaction isn't dumb from a sammie.
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Well, since "Oh, BULLETS! Better get some fraggin' cover!" seems like the natural reaction to the outbreak of a gunfight me... it works for me ;)
I don't say that the new rules make combat unrealistic or something like that, but they DO change the style. For an Action-Movie approch, the quick-as-lightening sam who start fireing and kills 4-6 enemies before considering cover is also acceptable.
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Keep in mind, though, that full defense can be taken as an interrupt action. So a street samurai can take his action, then spend his next action on full defense when the other guys go. This is another reason why multiple initiative passes are so important for a combat-focused character.
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Keep in mind, though, that full defense can be taken as an interrupt action. So a street samurai can take his action, then spend his next action on full defense when the other guys go. This is another reason why multiple initiative passes are so important for a combat-focused character.
But he does lose the next action (from either the next IP or Combat Round, whichever's first), for doing so.
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Sure, but he just has to have one more IP than everyone else, so he can be in full defense for their IPs and on his last IP start blasting a lot of frustrated goons ;D
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Running, even for cover, is a free action.
The Sam can still throw lead down range and take cover at the same time, provided he doesn't have to sprint to cover the distance. But, even with 4 IP, a running Sam can cover at least 5 meters in a pass. Cover shouldn't be that hard to come across within 5 meters.
Priorities shift a little, but it's still a good approximation of a gunfight.
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And if nothing else, dropping to the ground provides some minimal amount of cover. It's better than nothing.
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Or grabbing the dwarf and using him as a human shield...
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Voydangel wouldn't that be a dwarven shield then? And it would only give you partial cover
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ok, fine.. grab the dwarf and use him as a meta human shield. And yes, only partial cover.
wait... meta human shield... is that a triple entendre?
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....oO(would a Dwarf ,strapped to the Forearm of a Troll be considered a Buckler ?And what Armor Value does he have ? Would his struggling and whining be considered a distraction? What Modifier for the distraction -2 or -4 ....and would it be worth it ? Questions,questions,questions... ???....)
with a thoughtfull Dance
Medicineman
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....and would it be worth it ?
Just for the picture, oh yes !
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I agree.