[SuperPheemy]

My runners are starting to touch upon places and subjects where the big and powerful Magi, Technomancers, and Shamans play.  So, by game definition how powerful is powerful?  I know that the average SINful wage-slave thinks any Magic is scary and powerful.  But what do the Shadows think?  When do we go from "Talented" to "STAY THE FRAK AWAY YOU DREKHEAD!"?

[Caine Hazen]

I found the first time my players kinda pooped themselves was the Toxic tradition guy with 9 magic and 4 initations.  Of course being that he just had corrupted a layline to 1 point of his own tradtion probably helped.  I'm sure that with the combo of meta magics I used that my players likely would ahve still crapped themselves at a lower magic rating.  Its all in the presentation

[Sludig]

You know, watching that fight, I was waiting for the Shoggoth's to come out, such a disappointment..

[Mara]

Well, consider that I saw my players geek a pair of Troll Initiate Security Mages(2 grades of Initiation, 8 magic) with an
assault cannon.....Um....it gets really hard to know....Unfortunately, in my experience, my players are likely to
just go "You bastard" and then bring out the "we've been carrying these for when the defecation hits the
rotary oscillator" weapons....and blow up half the building...

[Caine Hazen]

Well when the force 6 inhabitation earth spirit "gugs" came out I added a little fun.  The players had to make composure 4 rolls to look at them.  That + immunity to normal weapons did cause a few problems for a few heartbeats.  The force 10 Ligore showed, all bets were off.  Fun times were had!

[Electron Dream]

Ahhhhh, isn't it submersion instead of sublimation for techno's?  Is that what you're asking about

[The_Gun_Nut]

Yes, it is submersion.

Sublimation would be...unpleasant.

[Casazil]

It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.

[Tarot]

In my exp. it's not as much how much power you have as how you use the power you do have. I've seen a Dragon (not a Great) taken down with a lucky grenade. I've also seen a Grade 1 blood mage (magic 7) take down a whole team of semi-prime runners. It's all about applying the correct amount of force at the correct time. That said I almost drekked when we had to go up against a Grade 6 wasp shaman in her own lair    A good time was NOT had by all. (characters anyway we players had a blast getting stomped  )

[Casazil]

Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol

[Mara]

It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.

I actually did that once with a Magic 1 magician...creative use of AR and high explosives combined with magical gestures...confused the hell out of the party, and they
ran like hell!

[Usda Beph]

It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.

I actually did that once with a Magic 1 magician...creative use of AR and high explosives combined with magical gestures...confused the hell out of the party, and they
ran like hell!

You pulled a Raistlin on them!

[Prime Mover]

I have to agree with some of the sentiment here.  It is in the presentation sheer numbers can pose an epic challenge, explosives in sufficient quantities, one high power spirit, full auto from a hvy weapon etc.

I've rated my home games in 4 grades  1-3(Novice)/ 4-6(Vet)/ 7-9(Prime)/10-12(Welcome to Z-O)  I use this for Spirit force,program maxes,initiate grades etc.

[Casazil]

That looks like a good system

[Turtletron]

Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol

One day my runners had to fight agaisnt a Toxic shaman with 10 Magic and 5 initiation, he was named Chernobyl and he was pretty well prepared...but the Dice Gods were not with me, and I critical glitched on his most powerful spell, and well, as you can imagine, they beat the crap out of what was remained of him *sigh*