Shadowrun Play > Gamemasters' Lounge
[6E] How to make the combat fun?
marfish:
--- Quote from: marfish on ---the gimmick ideas sounds cool :) let me try it this weeks.
--- End quote ---
I have try it, I feels like it was more fun and engaging (at least for me, I am still trying to collect their feedback though), but I soon realise that my grunt might never hit my player if they don't already have the attack dp that match the player's defense dp (I mean, if it's 5e, I can try FA, or gang up, or suppressive fire, or longer reach, etc. none of them required me to have dramatic attack dp). It sicks.
Am I doing it wrong? Or is it a problem of the combat rule? Any HR I should try?
Stainless Steel Devil Rat:
--- Quote from: marfish on ---
--- Quote from: marfish on ---the gimmick ideas sounds cool :) let me try it this weeks.
--- End quote ---
I have try it, I feels like it was more fun and engaging (at least for me, I am still trying to collect their feedback though), but I soon realise that my grunt might never hit my player if they don't already have the attack dp that match the player's defense dp (I mean, if it's 5e, I can try FA, or gang up, or suppressive fire, or longer reach, etc. none of them required me to have dramatic attack dp). It sicks.
Am I doing it wrong? Or is it a problem of the combat rule? Any HR I should try?
--- End quote ---
Try having the baddies reroll the player's hits on the defense test.
MercilessMing:
--- Quote from: marfish on ---
--- Quote from: marfish on ---the gimmick ideas sounds cool :) let me try it this weeks.
--- End quote ---
I have try it, I feels like it was more fun and engaging (at least for me, I am still trying to collect their feedback though), but I soon realise that my grunt might never hit my player if they don't already have the attack dp that match the player's defense dp (I mean, if it's 5e, I can try FA, or gang up, or suppressive fire, or longer reach, etc. none of them required me to have dramatic attack dp). It sicks.
Am I doing it wrong? Or is it a problem of the combat rule? Any HR I should try?
--- End quote ---
Using Edge to reroll your players' hits, like SSDR said, is important to remember to do.
Changing your NPC dice pools is another thing you can do. I often stat my NPCs in a player-relative way. How many dice are your players rolling, typically? Starting Shadowrunners are often rolling 10-14. I like to say 12 is the magic dice pool number for a threat that's on-par with the players. For me this is like, the boss's lieutenants, or HTR, or elite corp security, or Force 6 spirits. If they're good but not as good as the runners, I will roll two less. Runners have the advantage, but a 10 dice pool npc will probably get a couple licks in too. For me this is like, Yakuza/mafia/triad fighters, cops and security forces, gang leaders. If they're not a big threat but we're still going to roll and maybe they'll get lucky, that's an 8 dice pool for me. Rent-a-cops, gang members, goons. Dice pool 6 opponents may as well not roll, that's like an angry civilian, your cousin who's been in a few fights, the shopkeeper swinging his bat. I roll that just to hear the dice clatter and narrate what happens.
Another thing you can do is make more attacks. If you roll enough, some of those will hit. See the earlier reply about increasing the number of enemies. Say your team's combat specialist can eliminate 2 targets per turn. Build that buffer into your attack plan. Use your social guile to taunt the combat specialist into attacking the target you want. Maybe there's a ganger in the front who's just itching to fight, he's always looks right at your combat specialist, cracking his knuckles or laughing at him. Stuff like that can goad your combat guy (who will go first and wipe the floor with this nobody) into attacking your disposable pawn while the guy in the back with cover takes aim and fires ak-97 bursts into your players. They might miss, but you lengthened his life and he could get another chance.
Another thing you can do is use offensive and defensive moves to your advantage, like your players do. Flank them for Edge. Take Aim for extra dice. Use Dodge, use Full Defense.
Michael Chandra:
I've been writing up a lot of different approaches of weaker grunts to combat, using varying force multipliers and on occasion wave combat. The quick summary is simply 'don't just make it straight-up firing, use terrain and tricks'. This could be just cover (and combat drugs), an ambush with good sneaky surprises, or hard use of terrain such as causing a building to collapse. Lots of options if you make the enemies use Cover, groups, and cheaty tricks.
marfish:
--- Quote from: MercilessMing on ---Using Edge to reroll your players' hits, like SSDR said, is important to remember to do.
Changing your NPC dice pools is another thing you can do. I often stat my NPCs in a player-relative way. How many dice are your players rolling, typically? Starting Shadowrunners are often rolling 10-14. I like to say 12 is the magic dice pool number for a threat that's on-par with the players. For me this is like, the boss's lieutenants, or HTR, or elite corp security, or Force 6 spirits. If they're good but not as good as the runners, I will roll two less. Runners have the advantage, but a 10 dice pool npc will probably get a couple licks in too. For me this is like, Yakuza/mafia/triad fighters, cops and security forces, gang leaders. If they're not a big threat but we're still going to roll and maybe they'll get lucky, that's an 8 dice pool for me. Rent-a-cops, gang members, goons. Dice pool 6 opponents may as well not roll, that's like an angry civilian, your cousin who's been in a few fights, the shopkeeper swinging his bat. I roll that just to hear the dice clatter and narrate what happens.
Another thing you can do is make more attacks. If you roll enough, some of those will hit. See the earlier reply about increasing the number of enemies. Say your team's combat specialist can eliminate 2 targets per turn. Build that buffer into your attack plan. Use your social guile to taunt the combat specialist into attacking the target you want. Maybe there's a ganger in the front who's just itching to fight, he's always looks right at your combat specialist, cracking his knuckles or laughing at him. Stuff like that can goad your combat guy (who will go first and wipe the floor with this nobody) into attacking your disposable pawn while the guy in the back with cover takes aim and fires ak-97 bursts into your players. They might miss, but you lengthened his life and he could get another chance.
Another thing you can do is use offensive and defensive moves to your advantage, like your players do. Flank them for Edge. Take Aim for extra dice. Use Dodge, use Full Defense.
--- End quote ---
multi hit √ (I get 3232, but my player get 4376; 8dp would never hit them)
12dp √ (8dp would never hit them, and that's why I feel stuck, a 12dp basically means agility 6 and skill 6, they should be some sort of expert instead of regular glunt, but without the numbers of them, a few 12dp elites with regular weapon is not going to be a challenge for them; If I use combat drug, the player would mow them down in the frist round)
Flank them for Edge √ (but it just felt too slow or insiginificant, if I use them right away, they only add 2dp or 1 success; if I save them, my glunt in that good attack position would be mow down)
I believe I try most of them, they are ok :/ but non of them feels impactful.
--- Quote from: Michael Chandra on ---I've been writing up a lot of different approaches of weaker grunts to combat, using varying force multipliers and on occasion wave combat. The quick summary is simply 'don't just make it straight-up firing, use terrain and tricks'. This could be just cover (and combat drugs), an ambush with good sneaky surprises, or hard use of terrain such as causing a building to collapse. Lots of options if you make the enemies use Cover, groups, and cheaty tricks.
--- End quote ---
Mind sharing? ;)
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