Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Zilfer on <08-05-11/1246:06>
-
Hi, been lurking around this place for the last week and a half reading on topics learning ideas reading topics. New, only been DMing a year and not shadowrun mostly DnD 3.x (homebrewed rules). Started shadowrun after playing it once. Figured i'd try to DM it and DMed my campaign if you can call scribbles a campaign. Went pretty well. We played two nights in a row, first night went good second they all almost died. 2 of them used dead man's trigger to kill the last enemy standing and there was only one squad mate still up afterwards who had just critical glitched when trying to fire out the window of a U-haul driving itself. xD I made him fall out of the window. Anyways enough on that and to my questions!
1st! I have a guy playing a troll, and I wanted knowledge form the experts. Aka anyone with more experience than I which should be a lot on this form. Anyways this troll is the Tank in DnD terms. Had trouble getting through his armor because what he wore on the mission was Armor that is like 12 or something like that, has a helmet, and on top of that had a sort of Riot shield. Not home at the moment so can't give you specific armor's he's wearing. All i know is the total armor comes out to close to 21 dice. I just reread some of the book looking for a rule i knew was there but couldn't find while I was DMing. That was if it doesn't do more base damage then you have armor than it turns to Stun. (his Impact rating is 17 so it gives more of a chance to bring him down. Also his will as you can probably guess is a little low).
Now! He has edrenaline pump or something like that which allows him to ignore stun damage. Also found out it gives him 1 stun damage per turn which i didn't know. (i think it's turn not initive pass if i remember correctly so even that is minimum). So even if i do start doing stun damage from bullets he can ignore it for quite awhile. I also read that Stun spills into physical which might help but that just means i have to inflict almost double health to him. XD So how do you guys handle that type of armored guy? I haven't really thrown anything big at them at least to me I haven't. The hardest thing they fought was a large black and white tiger they had to try and capture. (they tried to shoot it with a tranquilizer dart it was halerious when they noticed it didn't go down. Shot it three times before they fingured out it was a robotic cat. I enjoyed it, though it took out a party member flat down. It was the groups hacker.... funny they figure that out right when the person thta might be able to effect it dies. XD Priceless) Then there was the boss of the gang they were fighting who had the tiger. They had the highest shal i call it "To Hit" dice. Which totalled like 18 for the tiger, and 16 for the gang guy's rifle. (I figured the grunts would hardly have anything and they were mowed down since they only had one initive pass.) Even the tiger and the "boss" had trouble with the troll so, wondered if it would continue to be a problem. I had him using ASPD rounds as well and was hardly doing nothing but i did managed to take the troll down so it just took time but would like advice in the future.
The further question is the roll using the shield. He is using it and firing a weapon. Should there be like a duel weilding negative for that? He said he'd be using his shield to stablize the gun and also mentioned his str which is over 10 with his bio/cyber. So what say you. Should I let him be able to do this without penalty?
Ok, enough about the troll, onto other matters.
Wireless/hacking. I haven't seen a good topic to describe it very well and im' mostly making this part up as I go. I use it to progress the storyline with the hacker but i'm unclear the rules. If someone could describe this to me in a way i could understand it would be greatful. Particularly Hacking a system, how you do that. I understand networking a bit having taken a quite a bit of IT in college. So I know Wireless broadcasts can be accessed by anyone, connecting to them within range. Wireless can be shut off on some systems, ect. When they find a node how do they hack through it. Is it just an extended test. I remember reading something along the lines of they have extended test have to be a DC(sorry used to playing DnD so i use that lingo) while something might try to search for them and if it finds them it shoots an alarm off? Can it actually hurt the hacker? he's doing this i believe "cold sim" is what they call it? Meaning physically typing comands in, and not being a virtual entity. Once he's in he's made an account for himself, was it that if he wanted admin access it's like +6 threshold to get in? Also what if a spider is watching the network?
If a spider is on a network is there like "cyber combat" where you do damage to eachother's operating systems? first one to lose health crashes? Can the hacker trace? When I read all the "options" and free actions, standard actions, and complex actions it goes in one ear and out the other. xD So would anyone mind simplifying these in lame terms because it's an area i'm really interested in getting down so i don't have to look something up five seconds. I can run with it on the fly however should I need to. Which I will most likely be doing later today should the group pick Shadowrun over Dnd today.
Again I appologize for all the questions thrown into one post/topic.
Last but not least, what's a good number range for how much money they should be getting after each mission? I've been trying to keep it anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000. <.< this too low or high? To me they won't be able to buy to much with that from remembering when I was making my own charrie.(lame man for character)
And as the last part, any tips for a new DM to Shadowrun? :P (everybody asks that so i figured i'd follow suit)
-
Adrenaline Pump: remember that after your Stun boxes fill up, you take Physical instead. So if you have 10 stun boxes, and 8S already, then take 6S, you have 10S and 4P. Adrenaline Pump users pass out when they run out of Physical...and then quite likely die as they take 1S per turn it was active at the END. It lasts 1d6 x rating turns, so if you roll a 6, and get KO'd, you are unconscious then take 6S = 6P. I don't like them for this reason.
Shields give a flat -1 to ALL physical tests - including firing guns.
Hacking is a convoluted, nonsensical mess. Hida Tsuzua is currently working on a matrix guide and he might be able to give you a better idea. The SR matrix rules are sort of like the Mirror of Galadriel - everyone who looks at them sees something different, and you can never be sure whether what you see is the way things are supposed to work, the result of design by committee, poor phrasing, poor editing, or what.
Nuyen: it's more important that you keep Nuyen and Karma in relative balance; if you give 5 karma and 1000Y a run, the mages will eclipse everyone else fast. If you give 1 karma and 20000Y a run, the augmented people will eclipse everyone else. A typical good balance is around 2500Y per karma, but you can vary that somewhat and be fine (and you don't have to keep it 1-1; you might have a 5 karma run that gets you very little money then a 3 karma run that gets you a lot of money or whatever).
-
Ah, well I guess i'm not the only one confused by the system then. Guess i'll keep makin up what I think should be mostly right for now. XD
Shields give -1 to all physical tests. Gotcha, well that's not much of a penalty, but it will have to do.
So i guess you'd want to deactivate that BEFORE you go down. Fun to know, otherwise they might die. XD Guess he might have to rely on the hacker to turn it off if he goes down. xD He's got 10 body or some such though so he should be fine for awhile. XD
Oh another thing, grenades. That confused me a little bit does it always damage in all directions or that blast radius dice roll determs which way it goes and who gets damaged? o.O
-
The scatter dice roll determines where it lands. Then it does damage in all directions. Some grenades (flashbangs) do fixed damage, others do less as you get further away. So, like, DV 10 at -2/m means direct hits do 10, 1-2m away you take 8, 2-3 you take 6, etc.
-
While agreeing with UmaroVI's statement of the mirror, here are my two cents on the matrix. (Note also the "newby" label next to my username, and apply appropriately sized salt shaker. If what I say conflicts with an expert, consider me to be wrong.)
First, my touchstone for Galadriel is to remember the matrix is a lie. What most users perceive as a seamless web from which some nodes disconnect is actually a myriad of webs, each with varying degrees of interconnectivity to other webs. The handshake and distributed packet transfer is so well developed it can be considered seamless for most users. However, hackers and other (un)wired players see and play with the seams, for in the details lie the good stuff.
Now for SR, each of these matrices is called a node. it's holographic in nature, meaning what one part 'knows' all parts know. If you've persuaded a node-controlling server that you're legit, all servers consider you legit.
So when you hack, you're not hacking a particular server. You're hacking the holistic control of that particular matrix, or node. The sum of hacking is that you are persuading the node that you, or at least the info/commands you're giving it, are legitimate. You've got basically three ways to do this: two wired and one meatspace.
The meatspace is to use a valid id. Not your own, chummer. The one the secretary gave you when you said you were fixing the system and needed the guest login and password, maybe. Or the one you picked up by phishing. But I digress. The ID is valid for the node, it just isn't yours. Congrats, you're hacking the node.
The two wired methods are hacking on the fly, and probing. All else being equal, which you use depends on how long you've got to get in.
When you hack on the fly, you try to be Athena springing full-grown into the system. You make an extended test every complex action. Unfortunately for you, in response the node's security gets an extended test to see if it notices you banging on the door. If it notices before you're in, it makes it harder to get in and it prepares its countermeasures in case you still succeed. If it notices as you spring full-formed into the system, you "just" get to deal with countermeasures.
The slow but safer method is probing. It's still an extended test. The test interval is every hour instead of complex action. The security still gets to see if it notices you but it's only one test done when you successfully log on.
One more bit of longwinded explanation, if I may, and I'll take on your questions.
Nobody connects with keyboards and mice any more. (Well, that's not true if you read some of the fluff, but again I digress.) You basically have two ways to connect, and one of those has two variations.
The way most people make use of the matrix is with Augmented Reality aka AR. Yes, you can sorta think of it as keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Gestures, some buttons and toggles, while getting sound in your earbuds (or over your smartphone commlink) and projections on your glasses or smartlinks or, well, you get the idea I hope. A key thing to keep in mind is that AR is an overlay for the Real World, highlighting and supplementing what you see and hear.
The other way to connect is Virtual Reality (VR). It comes in two flavors, called cold sim and hot sim. When you slip into VR, it replaces the Real World instead of overlaying it. It is, in this case, much like astral space is for mages. As far as your consciousness is concerned, you are THERE and your meat body is somewhere else. The difference between cold and hot is whether your governors and filters are left in place. With them in place you've got some protection from your stupidity or others' malice, at the cost of not quite getting everything you can from the system.
Can it actually hurt the hacker? he's doing this i believe "cold sim" is what they call it?
If he's AR, he can't be hurt.
If he's VR-cold, Black Ice can stun him. Just as in meat-space, if the stun is big enough it can go physical.
If he's VR-hot (just for completeness) some Black Ice can do physical damage and kill him, skipping stun.
Once he's in he's made an account for himself, was it that if he wanted admin access it's like +6 threshold to get in?
He decides what level of access the account will have when he's hacking. It increases the threshhold. So, if he was hacking a node with a firewall of 6 he'd need to accumulate 6 hits to get in as a user. To get into the same system as an admin he'd need to get 12.
Also what if a spider is watching the network?
IF the system alerts, a spider is one of the things he could face. In addition, the spider could be doing something that puts him in a position to also notice the user's entry. Perhaps she's analyzing the login system looking for holes to patch. It depends on what you think the spider is doing in regard to the security, at which point you modify the thresholds or pools appropriately.
If a spider is on a network is there like "cyber combat" where you do damage to eachother's operating systems? Yes. And consequences, well, they depend on which actions get taken. See my response to "can it actually hurt the hacker?" As to how, the short version is it's combat with damage tracks both in the matrix and outside. For more: Cybercombat is mostly SR4A 236-237, with additional info at SR4A 227 and UN39.
Can the hacker trace? I suspect I'm not understanding what you mean to ask. I mean, the hackers can do something that is called trace. Tracing is locating the originating node of the icon being traced. It can be used to locate what is at the other end of the connection - a file, a drone, etc. Note that a spider can do this as well. It's an option to stay hidden, trace the hacker's home, and send a friendly greeting party with a message to stop doing that sort of thing. At which point, yes, the hacker can get hurt.
For the confusing terms, here's my whack at it.
Unlike D&D, players can get different numbers of rounds in a combat turn. These are called Initiative Passes (aka IPs). Everybody gets to play in the first IP (barring some situational caveats). They only get to do something in the rest of the turn's IPs if they have them.
In an IP, each player's chance to do something is an Action Phase. A player can do one complex action or two simple actions per action phase. (A player may choose to delay her action phase till later in the combat turn (not IP), but cannot delay it into the next combat turn.) A player also earns one "free action" in an action phase. It must be used by the player's next action phase (in the next IP); they cannot be accumulated.
Experienced players feel free to take whacks at this, of course.
-
Troll stuff.
First off, a caveat from an old GM to a new GM. It's okay to consider what your options are to deal with powerful characters, but be sure to keep in mind that your players are the heroes. Let them be heroic.
Yes, they shouldn't have it too easy, but at the end of the day (in most games) the PCs should come off as the heroes, and it's okay for heroes to kick a little mook behind. Heck, it's okay for them to kick a LOT of mook behind.
If they have done their homework and have a genuinely tough character...allow that character to be tough. He's a bloody Troll in 21/17 armor - he has the right to be a little cocky. Heck, he's paid a price for that right...Troll doesn't come cheap, and neither did that armor. Your average thug should be quaking in their booties.
With that out of the way - on to your question. How do you actually put some threat toward something that durable?
20ish armor is doable in a couple of ways. If your Troll was clever, he may have done this in a way that he basically normal looking to most observers and can move around in polite society. If he was a little less clever, he might be wearing Full Body Armor, or something of the sort - this is NOT acceptable in polite company.
If he's walking around SWAT/Military armor, that stuff is not legal. If he's starting with it, he needs the Restricted Gear Quality, and a license. If it's Forbidden availability, like Military armor, he can't get a license. Even if he has the Restricted Gear Quality, if Knight Errant sees him walking down the street with that stuff on, they'll react accordingly.
(Accordingly, in this case, means falling back and calling in a special team with Stun weapons (Electrical damage is good vs armor and low Willpower individuals) and Anti-Vehicle weapons. Explosives. Big nasty sniper rifles with armor defeating ammo. Oh, and definitely a Mage with Stun Bolt.)
I'm not saying kill him (though the Player doesn't need to know that) but you can make it clear that he can't goto the Stuffer Shack in that gear.
Now, if you Troll is clever and is wearing socially acceptable armor - well, he deserves a cookie. A cookie in the form of his stuff is legal, so he doesn't get hassled. As a big tough well-armored Troll, he can basically ignore most small arms.
Does this mean that he's going to walk through most low level threats unscathed. Yes. Yes, it does.
But the heavy hitters, the Bad Guys, the named villians (rather than faceless henchmen)...chances are they have taken the time, themselves, to get good armor. And maybe their OWN Troll. And they've definitely taken some time to to think about what they would do when a Big Bad Troll comes knockin' - which is probably hire themselves/learn to be a Mage with the right spells to go up against his dump stats, AP weapons, or enough expendables with high enough rate of fire to wear even a big bad Troll out.
In SR4 it is definitely possible to make a very very durable PC. The system is designed, in my opinion, to make PCs highly survivable - but they are not invulnerable. As a GM, your goal isn't really to KILL your PCs...it's to SCARE your PCs.
Really, at the end of the day, you want your PCs striding out of the smoke and flames, bloodied...but triumphant.
(Well, unless they do something really stupid - then, kick 'em where it hurts! :o )
*Grin*
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
^I absolutely agree with you, I would say i'm an actual nice DM. The closest i've ever come to a party wipe was yesterday. In the history of about a year Dming i've never permanently killed off a character. I plan to have a possible character die off in dnd, but it's going to be based story wise and, the character is going to come back.... to futher suspense and plot. :D
Anyways thank you for answering my questions i'm going to have to read them a few times to get the most out of it. Also i had an additional question for my own character.
Fletch, or rather the Ares Viper Slivergun is a fletch gun with added damage for fletch and sound supression. I was wondering can it only use fletch ammo? or could i use other ammo in it? Further more is there any rules as to what gun can use some ammo. I know like the darts are restricted because it says so, but ASPD armor piercing rounds they seem like. Can that be used for say a pistol? or they only for rifles? Assault rifles? Sub machine guns?
Again thanks for the advice. Love that you guys are active on this forum and willing to help those asking help. Glad to know there aren't some people who roll there eyes at a new newby joining the mess. :D
Also to the hacking accounts. Oh yes, taking internet security class taught me all about phishing. :D I knew that would definitely be a good tactic to use when i was playing as a PC unforunately i decided my character wouldn't have my out of character knowledge like the good player I am. I mean who doesn't want to enter into a contest for a free paid vacation to (enter in awesome vacation spot) paid in full by the company. All you need to do is enter in your user name and password to be entered into the drawing and why you should be considered for the company paid vacation. ;D
-
Party Wipes - I have read a few references to party wipes, lately. As a very new GM (maybe two sessions in to what eventually became a 10 year+ AD&D campaign) I nearly wiped out the whole thing. Made me realize that sometimes PCs just die, and that I really DO have total control of the game world.
As this is the GM board, I will tell you a secret :-X. Early on in a campaign, I will let a PC die. Sometimes I will gauge the balance in such a way that it is even likely...preferably in a heroic manner, but still...dead.
This establishes with my players that I have the intestinal fortitude to go through with it.
Once we are firmly established in the game, I try to only kill a PC if it makes for a better story. Heroic last stand while the rest of the party gets away, slain in an epic battle with the party's nemesis, etc. I say " Try" because PCs sometimes do stuff that will obviously result in their own death - either through cockiness, foolishness, or as a test to see what they can get away with. So I let them die.
Understand that, in most games - SR4 included - it is actually fairly hard to die permanently as a PC. "Oops. Dead. Burn a point of Edge."
But as for a party wipe - if it isn't entirely the fault of the party , ie, charging headlong into a suicidal situation (seriously...sometimes they are like lemmings!), then there is always a Deus Ex available. A miraculous roll, the Calvary arriving at the very last moment (if done right, they'll love this #%^*), or even a simple offer to surrender. Hollywood does all of these, all the time.
Oh, and flechettes. :P the Ares Slivergun is a flechette pistol, and only fires flechettes - conventional ammo is different. Some conventional weapons, like shotguns, can fire both, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Be aware that flechettes ADD 5 points of armor...they are less effective vs armor, but tear up unarmored people. Like...I dunno...waiters? Armor is fairly common in SR.
Most ammo types can be used in most weapons...though assault cannon rounds, flechettes, darts, and tracer rounds are special cases.
Oh, and silencers don't add damage. :P
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
I see Flechette rounds as useful in hunting in 2070 more than in Shadowrunning, much the same way Buckshot would be in Shadowrun. It used to be useful before armour became so common (2050s and early 2060s), but technology marched on, and anything except for Flats has at least a light armour weave in it now.
But, when you're out hunting, they still have their uses. A Slivergun would make short work of a snake about the strike or a pissed off bear (Get out of it's way, however, as the momentum of it's charge is going to keep it going despite it being dead.), and holds a lot more shots than a Mountain Revolver. Even some awakened creatures don't have armour, so they'd be useful for that. (Hellhounds don't have armour, BTW, and are used in security. Sliverguns/Suppressed Flechette Loads are very useful against them!)
Just watch out for the Awakened Canada Goose. Those things tear Snowmoose apart for fun.
-
I've had the misfortune of walking into the perimeter of a sleeping flock of Canada Geese, in the middle of the night.
Thankfully, I knew what that horrendous hissing noise meant - as it was much too cold a climate for it to be a thousand vipers - and backed away slowly.
Would have been an embarrassing way to go.
"What happened to you?"
"I got beaten to death by goose sentries."
"I'm sorry...it sounded like you said...?"
"I don't wan to talk about it!"
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
And that is why you do *NOT* make fun of the Nene Shaman!
-
If you aimed for an unarmored part however like say the face if they didn't have a full helmet would it still add to their armor? (you take a negative to aiming for specific body part of course)
Eh there's always a way to have a character come back even in Dungeons and Dragons. I mean i "kill them" as in making them go down, however killing them off is much harder. XD meaning no body to resurrect. (they have to pay their level X 1,000 in order to resurrect a dead companion and then -1 con!) So most of them keep coming back even if they go down too far.
-
I've had the misfortune of walking into the perimeter of a sleeping flock of Canada Geese, in the middle of the night.
Thankfully, I knew what that horrendous hissing noise meant - as it was much too cold a climate for it to be a thousand vipers - and backed away slowly.
Vermin of the sky... /vigorous fist shake
-
If you aimed for an unarmored part however like say the face if they didn't have a full helmet would it still add to their armor? (you take a negative to aiming for specific body part of course)
Eh there's always a way to have a character come back even in Dungeons and Dragons. I mean i "kill them" as in making them go down, however killing them off is much harder. XD meaning no body to resurrect. (they have to pay their level X 1,000 in order to resurrect a dead companion and then -1 con!) So most of them keep coming back even if they go down too far.
If you take a Called Shot (SR4A, p. 161) and succeed, you can ignore all armor, and as I understand it that means flachette will no longer add 5. So flachette and called shots go together like bread and butter.
-
Fletch, or rather the Ares Viper Slivergun is a fletch gun with added damage for fletch and sound supression. I was wondering can it only use fletch ammo? or could i use other ammo in it?
Its called Flechette (Fletch was a Chevy Chase Char back in the 90's right ?)
and the Ares Viper Slivergun can use only Flechette Ammo
Hough!
Medicineman
-
If you aimed for an unarmored part however like say the face if they didn't have a full helmet would it still add to their armor? (you take a negative to aiming for specific body part of course)
Eh there's always a way to have a character come back even in Dungeons and Dragons. I mean i "kill them" as in making them go down, however killing them off is much harder. XD meaning no body to resurrect. (they have to pay their level X 1,000 in order to resurrect a dead companion and then -1 con!) So most of them keep coming back even if they go down too far.
If you take a Called Shot (SR4A, p. 161) and succeed, you can ignore all armor, and as I understand it that means flachette will no longer add 5. So flachette and called shots go together like bread and butter.
Vs a heavily armored opponent, that is going to be quite a trick, though. Take my Merc's armor of 21/17 - you would have a -21 penalty to your dice pool before I even rolled to defend, instead of the 8 hits my Armor would normally average vs the Slivergun.
Even if you manage to hit me, you are going to net a 1 hit bonus for your trouble, over the average roll (21 dice average 7 hits) and that is only because of the +5 AP to begin with! (Though it would do Physical damage, so that is something.
-
If you aimed for an unarmored part however like say the face if they didn't have a full helmet would it still add to their armor? (you take a negative to aiming for specific body part of course)
Eh there's always a way to have a character come back even in Dungeons and Dragons. I mean i "kill them" as in making them go down, however killing them off is much harder. XD meaning no body to resurrect. (they have to pay their level X 1,000 in order to resurrect a dead companion and then -1 con!) So most of them keep coming back even if they go down too far.
If you take a Called Shot (SR4A, p. 161) and succeed, you can ignore all armor, and as I understand it that means flachette will no longer add 5. So flachette and called shots go together like bread and butter.
Called shots in SR4 don't ignore armour AFAIK. They just add up to +4 DV (which is the equivalent of losing 12 points of armour, but still not quite the same thing ;)
-
Called shots in SR4 don't ignore armour AFAIK. They just add up to +4 DV (which is the equivalent of losing 12 points of armour, but still not quite the same thing ;)
SR4A, p.161, the very first example of the uses of Called Shots:
Target an area not protected by armor. The attacking character re- ceives a negative dice pool modifier equal to the target’s armor (better armor is more difficult to bypass). If the attack hits, the target’s armor is ignored for the damage resistance test; the target rolls only Body.
-
SR4A, p.161, the very first example of the uses of Called Shots:
Target an area not protected by armor. The attacking character re- ceives a negative dice pool modifier equal to the target’s armor (better armor is more difficult to bypass). If the attack hits, the target’s armor is ignored for the damage resistance test; the target rolls only Body.
*tips hat* you are correct.
But as a side note, mathematically it's a useless option.
Example A) Target has 12 armour. Take a -12 to the called shot attack roll (equal to armour, just like it says in the rulebook), and if you hit, they get to resist with body.
Example B) Target has 12 armour. Take a -4 to the called shot attack roll, and increase DV by +4. On average, it takes 12 points of armour to soak 4DV, but you also have +8 dice to the attack roll for more successes on your shot, which is going to make any remaining body soak tests much more challenging.
I'll take option B) every time, however RAW, I am corrected on what called shots can/can't do. +1 to you :D
-
On the subject of the Troll (and speaking as a very raw GM with 4 sessions total, 2 of Shadowrun under my belt, so same boat as you) - the Mage is good, the 'Is that armour legal' is good...
So too is the option called 'More Bullets'. In Shadowrun, people are frail and bullets are fairly cheap. Yes, the Troll is about as un-frail as it gets, and can ignore the poxy gangers with their poxy light pistols who his friends are worried about. But when the highly skilled CorpSec/Lone Star/Street Sam/Adept/whatever levels their machine gun at them and lets fly with a full narrow burst of Armour Piercing/Explosive ammo, the Troll has serious problems. He will probably survive that, which most of his friends won't if they get hit. He might even survive a second burst, although that's beginning to be a risky bet. A third would almost definitley do for him. A big enough gun - and it doesn't even have to be that big - will hurt him. No matter how tough a Shadowrunner is, the moment heavy fire comes down their best options are 'Get them before they can get you' and 'Run away'. Probably not in that order. The tank's favourite option 'tough it out', is a long way down the list.
-
Its called Flechette (Fletch was a Chevy Chase Char back in the 90's right ?)
80's
for the troll, if he's carrying anything larger than a hold out pistol when the cops see him (in assumably obvious armor) they won't be afraid to call out the SWAT troll with a panther backed up by a riot truck with whatever toy you deem necessary. i'd use a riot truck with water cannon loaded with sleep agent, but thats me being nice. very few players spend the money on envirosealing, and even if they do, minor damage breaks the seal. a high pressure stream of water hitting the troll will knock him down, and the sleep agent makes him not wanna get back up til he's safely in the Seattle Metro Jail. did i mention that apparently your license for the armor got washed down the sewer drain?
-
Love the water cannon.
This is why my Tank has a Chemical Seal and, on a separate layer, Chem Resistance.
That, and the rain in Seattle is pretty nasty. And common.
(Though, really, it's also why my Tank's armor looks like clothing and his AR has a Concealment rating of -10)
But kudos for the water cannon - A good GM, much like a skilled martial artist, should be able to deal with the situation without causing irreparable harm.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
You have a point about Called shot being a little less likely to really do anything against heavily armored opponent. -21 dice would definitely be a hinderance considering with my character that uses the slivergun only has a 20 dice pool. (7 pistols +2 heavy pistol specialization, +9 agility*with augmentations* +2 for the smart gun) I’d have a -1 dice pool without using edge. XD then I’d only have 6 dice compared to probably a higher agility so hitting would be hard. I guess if I had time to do AIM actions for a few combat turns it might help but that’s laughable.
Point taken about the gun, though if it does hit it will inflict a pretty nice -2 wound modifier to whatever it hit. I’m curious does this matter if they have a helmet? To mean I don’t care if the armor is Aluminum, Iron, or Adamantium. If they aren’t wearing a helmet why should it be any harder to shoot someone’s head? Opinions on this? If the dice pool is a 6 dice difference that could mean the difference between life and death of an enemy. :D
Let’s see what other questions I have.
Critters, how do you guys employ these guys into the games? It seems more DnD like when I took a look at that section. Kinda like a mini monster manual there, but I was wondering are these kind of “Murders going around in the city and someone lost someone important to enter said beast and they got to go find it?” Or are they used as “hound dogs” in security places? Should they mostly be encountered in the wild because a lot of them are wild animals it seems. >.> Also Essence drain, that permanent? No way to get it back if so that is a scary critter.
Out of pure curiousity, has anyone ever done a shadowrun to Mars? If so how did that one go and what was the storyline? (the moon can count as well) I was just reading one of the triple AAA’s company descriptions in the main book and it said they set up a station on Mars. Though that was an interesting adventure idea, imagine what secrets and data they could be storing so far away from the earth and non of the other companies know. :D be they want to know. XD
Is astral combat as hard to understand as fighting firewalls while hacking? Or simplier? I’ve kinda moseyed my way around Astral combat and Technomancers for awhile. (I want to add that capability into my game however since they seem worthwhile pursuits like most in the game.)
I’m not sure my group has really gotten into the “planning” part of Shadowrun yet. Sometimes it’s run and gun, other times it’s just handling normal day to day stuff.
While I’m on the subject I could use a little brainstorming help. :P Sort of doing a zombie break out right now. They were flying a package they weren’t supposed to open. Me knowing one of the members has the negative quality of addiction, but not just any addiction a Pyromaniac. <.< and they all opt to fly on a small plane that could fit about 6-10 people in it? Well Mr. Pyro has that negative quality that gets a -2 composure to resist and he needs to 2 hits out of 3 dice with a -2. Needless to say once per day he has to use Edge if he wants to resist doing it. So he decided not to resist it and save edge. (probably a good thing, at least from my perspective as a dm. *evil grin*) Anyways he had grenades on him so he threw it out the toilet on the airplane. First day fine nothing happened but second day he damaged the plane enough to make it crash with the cargo they were to escort to the middle of where Wyoming used to be. (SIOUX now, gonna have to find out a bit about this place) Anyways made up a city called Joyhaven where they crash landed. (wasn’t pretty one guy crit glitched and flew out of the crashing plane, needless to say he had two turns before he bled out. The only thing that saved him was the troll who activated his adrenaline enhancers.) I had them all take around 20S damage so most of them would be knocked out and not die. The troll however was up, for as long as that pump was going. He made a perception check a pretty good one, and then amazed me with a sprint that I’d probably not want to see a troll do in real life. At least not in my direction. (A troll sprinting does like what 30 meters? +2 meters for every hit? He got like 10 hits. 50 meters in two seconds? Give that guy a medal if he can keep that pace for another turn cus I think he’d break the world record. XD) Anyways he slapped on a trauma patch and did a healing test to stabilize. Managed to get it, the troll then willfully knocked himself out by turning off the cyberware. (otherwise he would have just died)
They were pretty awestruck when I ended the session there leaving it hanging if they were going to survive or not. ^.^ That was before I mentioned that they were delievering that metal box with them. I said “Well I wonder what happened to that box…” More struck faces.
Heh, anyways they wake up in the hospital. The troll is the first one to heal up fully. (surprise surprise), slowly day by day each more get up. The troll’s walkin around the room by now seen the nurse a few time who I’ve dropped a hint seemed really busy. As the days go on they aren’t checked up on as much. The third person got up and turned on the news. Told them their plane crash was on the news, as well as an increase in “accidents.” I’m trying to move at a slow pace throughout the days making sure to ask each day well what are you doing? Most of them opted to rest, to gather their strength. So on the fifth day. They decide to try and ask were the doctor was who was supposed to come check on him but had been ‘busy’. No one answers the door, well they take a look down the hallways to see anyone. (the door to the room they are in is locked FYI) they don’t see anyone down the hallways. (prior to this day they had noticed a fifth bed in their room which they neglected to really check on, which was the pilot) He flat lined, and the hacker decided well I’m going to try to hack the security cams. (I then had the person at the door make a perception, and see an armored man coming down the hallway checking his corners the whole way coming towards their door). The hacker was flipping through cameras after the hacking into just the camera system. He got a whole bunch of empty rooms and was flicking through it as the armored guy slide the keycard. The troll slammed him against the wall since the guys gun was drawn. (>.> wasn’t that hard to do either) Well that’s about the time I have the Hacker see something on a camera. Two figures seemingly eating something off a stretcher in another room. Heh, what could they be eating. The guy against the wall with the gun was wheezing and pointed his hand at the last bed which the guy that flatlined just stood up. Needless to say the troll dropped the guy and allowed him to shoot. They then proceeded to ask what the hell was going on. Needless to say they rushed to the hospital’s mini armory two stories above them while only have 1 gun from the guy with them. They ran up the stairs (one of them literally crit glitched running, the guy that flew out of the plane. Damn hacker just WANTS to get killed and he doesn’t even have bad luck! xD The quality that is, apparently he had bad luck in real life.)
They got two the armory saw that it had already been mostly raided. So 3 suits of armor (4 of them) 1 helmet, 4 light pistols with a single clip, and one assault rifle single clip. I think they’ll appreciate conserving ammo. XD oh and I threw in two random frags just in case Mr. Pyromaniac got any ideas. I ended this session as they are in an elevator on the outside of the building able to see most of the city in chaos. (I might mention that the hacker checked his email and found the guy who had sent them on the mission had literally spammed and filled his mailbox to it’s full capacity. Message said “Get out”. He read that back in the room before he got the idea to hack the cameras)
I think they had quite fun, though I think they are more focused on survival right now then getting any money or anything. The troll wants his baby back… he’s got like a assault cannon type deal with an AI on it called Bertha. <.<
So you guys got any ideas for a campaign like that?
I told them that it would be kick ass to have a Zombie infestation in a shadowrun game because it’s a game where you could really make it work. (only game I’ve ever played with guns in it, and that ain’t saying much since I haven’t played many RPG ones) They agree’d so I pulled this one on them about a week or two later. :D
Ok sorry for going off topic. XD
Water Cannon, that sounds like an interesting Idea I may have to try eventually. :D thanks for the idea!
Also I keep hearing you guys talking about armor that looks like clothing? Are we talking about the armored jacket type things? or is there an actual upgrade that puts a hologram over your armor to make it look like clothing or something?
-
armored jacket done by fashion designers, SR3 had whole sections devoted to it, and some of those items are in SR4 main, like the london great coat.
-
If they aren’t wearing a helmet why should it be any harder to shoot someone’s head? Opinions on this?
A) Because Shadowrun has no hit location (Never had one)
So If You hit somebody , he rolls his body & armor no matter where You hit him
B) You need houserules for headshots If you don't use the: -4 Dice for +4 Damage Rule
C) You need other Hosuerules for other Hit Locations
D) You need to recalculate Armor
(Why does a Armor Coat (6/4) that covers more of the Body have less Armor than a Armored Jacket (8/6)
What If I Pull up the Collar of said Coat how Much more Protection is that ? How Much Armor is the Armored Coat at the Arms ? Why ?)
E) If Headshots were so Effective (with -6 for a called shot to a small area if there is no armor protection )
Everybody will Do it and sooner Or later You have a TPK Which is no Fun at all
You Play D&D (Me too ;D don't worry it doesn't cause Cancer) what about Headshots there ?
Critters, how do you guys employ these guys into the games?
Rarely !By Canon they're way too expensive for Cons to employ (a well Trained Hellhound costs 200.000 ¥ Plus upkeep)
Out of pure curiousity, has anyone ever done a shadowrun to Mars?
Nope ! And I doubt that I ever will
Orbital Stations, the Space Elevator maybe, but a voyage to Mars.... I doubt that strongly
He who dances with John Carter from Mars
Medicineman
-
If they aren’t wearing a helmet why should it be any harder to shoot someone’s head? Opinions on this?
A) Because Shadowrun has no hit location (Never had one)
So If You hit somebody , he rolls his body & armor no matter where You hit him
B) You need houserules for headshots If you don't use the: -4 Dice for +4 Damage Rule
C) You need other Hosuerules for other Hit Locations
D) You need to recalculate Armor
(Why does a Armor Coat (6/4) that covers more of the Body have less Armor than a Armored Jacket (8/6)
What If I Pull up the Collar of said Coat how Much more Protection is that ? How Much Armor is the Armored Coat at the Arms ? Why ?)
E) If Headshots were so Effective (with -6 for a called shot to a small area if there is no armor protection )
Everybody will Do it and sooner Or later You have a TPK Which is no Fun at all
You Play D&D (Me too ;D don't worry it doesn't cause Cancer) what about Headshots there ?
Critters, how do you guys employ these guys into the games?
Rarely !By Canon they're way too expensive for Cons to employ (a well Trained Hellhound costs 200.000 ¥ Plus upkeep)
Out of pure curiousity, has anyone ever done a shadowrun to Mars?
Nope ! And I doubt that I ever will
Orbital Stations, the Space Elevator maybe, but a voyage to Mars.... I doubt that strongly
He who dances with John Carter from Mars
Medicineman
Alright good point. If you tried to head shot in DnD depends on what your trying to do it with. Is it a sword? :P then i'd "DM on the fly" as it were. (lol) Using a crossbow that would suck to get hit in the head. XD
-
Space: the final frontier. where no one can hear you scream, the mage is twitching from no astral connection, the hacker is giggling from all the Wifi in the air, and the razorboy is crying cuz all they let him bring were the ares squirt and a normal knife.
the perfect location to run my players through a one-shot based on the movie pandorum. "orbital facility" (i swear it's really not a colony ship) experimenting on surge changelings, no magic seems to work, and no monster stomping weapons. and, GO!
-
On the subject of the Troll (and speaking as a very raw GM with 4 sessions total, 2 of Shadowrun under my belt, so same boat as you) - the Mage is good, the 'Is that armour legal' is good...
So too is the option called 'More Bullets'. In Shadowrun, people are frail and bullets are fairly cheap. Yes, the Troll is about as un-frail as it gets, and can ignore the poxy gangers with their poxy light pistols who his friends are worried about. But when the highly skilled CorpSec/Lone Star/Street Sam/Adept/whatever levels their machine gun at them and lets fly with a full narrow burst of Armour Piercing/Explosive ammo, the Troll has serious problems. He will probably survive that, which most of his friends won't if they get hit. He might even survive a second burst, although that's beginning to be a risky bet. A third would almost definitley do for him. A big enough gun - and it doesn't even have to be that big - will hurt him. No matter how tough a Shadowrunner is, the moment heavy fire comes down their best options are 'Get them before they can get you' and 'Run away'. Probably not in that order. The tank's favourite option 'tough it out', is a long way down the list.
The above is all good advice on how to handle "the tank.". Full blown combat armor (and especially the shield) are only going to work in full combat situations where you don't care what anyone thinks of you. Some jobs require subtly, legwork, and blending in, and the troll will have to downshift to less crazy armor. A showdowrunner should be able to dress for success in any situation, be it a fancy club, a corporate board room, a bar at the edge of the barrens, or a den full of ghouls. Each requires a different set of gear, and there are alot of places where milspec armor and a riot shield will result in a swat team.
Spells, drugs, other trolls are all good ways to handle the tank as well.
Also, as BP above points out, while the tank can effectively ignore the punk with the light pistol, a trained team with assault rifles with good recoil gear, good ammo, good skills, long, narrow burst, and maybe a called shot to increase DV will still screw up a tank just fine. Well trained security knows you frag the mage, then the troll, in that order. High end security might include a mage, a squad of cyber modified riflemen, and a couple of drones with light machine guns as fire support. Against that kind of firepower even the tanks go down if they try to take it on the chin.
-
Space: the final frontier. where no one can hear you scream, the mage is twitching from no astral connection, the hacker is giggling from all the Wifi in the air, and the razorboy is crying cuz all they let him bring were the ares squirt and a normal knife.
the perfect location to run my players through a one-shot based on the movie pandorum. "orbital facility" (i swear it's really not a colony ship) experimenting on surge changelings, no magic seems to work, and no monster stomping weapons. and, GO!
Caution flag: a run in which the mage can't use magic 'just because' is going to be very little fun for the mage player. Think long and hard about this.
-
On the subject of the Troll (and speaking as a very raw GM with 4 sessions total, 2 of Shadowrun under my belt, so same boat as you) - the Mage is good, the 'Is that armour legal' is good...
So too is the option called 'More Bullets'. In Shadowrun, people are frail and bullets are fairly cheap. Yes, the Troll is about as un-frail as it gets, and can ignore the poxy gangers with their poxy light pistols who his friends are worried about. But when the highly skilled CorpSec/Lone Star/Street Sam/Adept/whatever levels their machine gun at them and lets fly with a full narrow burst of Armour Piercing/Explosive ammo, the Troll has serious problems. He will probably survive that, which most of his friends won't if they get hit. He might even survive a second burst, although that's beginning to be a risky bet. A third would almost definitley do for him. A big enough gun - and it doesn't even have to be that big - will hurt him. No matter how tough a Shadowrunner is, the moment heavy fire comes down their best options are 'Get them before they can get you' and 'Run away'. Probably not in that order. The tank's favourite option 'tough it out', is a long way down the list.
The above is all good advice on how to handle "the tank.". Full blown combat armor (and especially the shield) are only going to work in full combat situations where you don't care what anyone thinks of you. Some jobs require subtly, legwork, and blending in, and the troll will have to downshift to less crazy armor. A showdowrunner should be able to dress for success in any situation, be it a fancy club, a corporate board room, a bar at the edge of the barrens, or a den full of ghouls. Each requires a different set of gear, and there are alot of places where milspec armor and a riot shield will result in a swat team.
Spells, drugs, other trolls are all good ways to handle the tank as well.
Also, as BP above points out, while the tank can effectively ignore the punk with the light pistol, a trained team with assault rifles with good recoil gear, good ammo, good skills, long, narrow burst, and maybe a called shot to increase DV will still screw up a tank just fine. Well trained security knows you frag the mage, then the troll, in that order. High end security might include a mage, a squad of cyber modified riflemen, and a couple of drones with light machine guns as fire support. Against that kind of firepower even the tanks go down if they try to take it on the chin.
Frag the mage eh? Well then I guess i'll have to be careful when i play my mage then. XD Not that I don't already know that. Had a question however, for lightning ball. How do you calculate the damage? It seems to be different than say a fireball which i believe is half impact + full body resistance test. Can you "dodge spells?"
-
Space: the final frontier. where no one can hear you scream, the mage is twitching from no astral connection, the hacker is giggling from all the Wifi in the air, and the razorboy is crying cuz all they let him bring were the ares squirt and a normal knife.
the perfect location to run my players through a one-shot based on the movie pandorum. "orbital facility" (i swear it's really not a colony ship) experimenting on surge changelings, no magic seems to work, and no monster stomping weapons. and, GO!
Caution flag: a run in which the mage can't use magic 'just because' is going to be very little fun for the mage player. Think long and hard about this.
noted, though i does help that the current group all dislike mages with a passion. the team motto would be frag the mage first and second, if they had a motto.
-
Frag the mage eh? Well then I guess i'll have to be careful when i play my mage then. XD Not that I don't already know that. Had a question however, for lightning ball. How do you calculate the damage? It seems to be different than say a fireball which i believe is half impact + full body resistance test. Can you "dodge spells?"
Depends on the spell.
Combat spells come in either a Direct/Indirect variety - for instance, a Stun or Mana bolt cannot be Dodged, because the Mage is pumping Mana directly into the target's Aura.
They get WIL to resist, but no Dodge. No armor, either.
Which is why you frag the Mage first. Heh.
(Of course, my Mage is a Formori Troll - last group of guys we got into it with tried to fat pile him with less than optimal results...he carries a hardened walking stick that happens to be a Weapon Focus. I think the phrase that was used to describe the outcome for the bad guys was "clubbed like a baby harp seal.")
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
O.O' I have one responce to the above...
The staff! I told you to grab the wizards staff!
-
The answer to any mage and his stuff...
Ritual Magic
-
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? I’m sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD
Also how often do you have the enemy/npc’s spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think we’ve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DM’d not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) It’s ok however, my mage was still able to take them.
Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadn’t even casted it.
Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless it’s like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD
This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Haven’t found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
-
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? I’m sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD
Also how often do you have the enemy/npc’s spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think we’ve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DM’d not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) It’s ok however, my mage was still able to take them.
Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadn’t even casted it.
Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless it’s like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD
This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Haven’t found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
A) Edge on critical successes? No. Too powerful an option.... You can already use edge to reroll failures, or add exploding dice to a roll. To just give automatic success is a bit overboard
B) If enemies have Edge, my GM will use all of it in a fight (And when GM'ing, so do I ::) ). Enemies are generally designed to use everything they have in a single encounter (which is why they don't have 5-10 spare clips of ammo like most Shadowrunners ;) )
C) You cannot use magic to heal drain (either Stun or Physical). This is in the rulebook. You can however use technical means (Medkits, First Aid skill etc)..
Neither Stun nor Physical damage resulting from Drain can be healed by magical means such as sorcery or spirit powers.
D) The importance of Spirits varies greatly. Some mages use them more than spells, other's rarely use them at all. It's a powerful mechanical option, but requires skills and resources to be done properly. Kind of like a Street Sam choosing to focus on Heavy Weapons vs Automatics... both are great, but they're just a different option to take...
E) Overcasting is very useful, but only in certain circumstances, so my answer is no, I don't do it a lot (mainly because it's so Frickin' hard to heal!). Unless I'm damned sure I can take the drain (normally with Edge used on the drain test) I don't use it....
Note: I really think you'll overcast less when now you know you can't heal the drain damage yourself... ;)
F) If you have 9 dice for drain, and a +3 focus, and are regularly resisting 6 drain, then that is some excellent dice rolls my friend. On average you need 18 dice to resist this, not 12.
Note: What sort of Focus is it? If it's just a normal Rating 3 Combat Spell focus, then the +3 dice add to Spellcasting tests only (NOT drain tests). This is as per the rules on SR4A p.199, and means you really only have 9 dice for drain, regardless of Focus.
G) Nothing wrong with 6 Edge. It's exactly the same as my primary character, and I find it incredibly useful :)
-
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? I’m sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD
Also how often do you have the enemy/npc’s spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think we’ve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DM’d not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) It’s ok however, my mage was still able to take them.
Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadn’t even casted it.
Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless it’s like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD
This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Haven’t found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
A) Edge on critical successes? No. Too powerful an option.... You can already use edge to reroll failures, or add exploding dice to a roll. To just give automatic success is a bit overboard
B) If enemies have Edge, my GM will use all of it in a fight (And when GM'ing, so do I ::) ). Enemies are generally designed to use everything they have in a single encounter (which is why they don't have 5-10 spare clips of ammo like most Shadowrunners ;) )
C) You cannot use magic to heal drain (either Stun or Physical). This is in the rulebook. You can however use technical means (Medkits, First Aid skill etc)..
Neither Stun nor Physical damage resulting from Drain can be healed by magical means such as sorcery or spirit powers.
D) The importance of Spirits varies greatly. Some mages use them more than spells, other's rarely use them at all. It's a powerful mechanical option, but requires skills and resources to be done properly. Kind of like a Street Sam choosing to focus on Heavy Weapons vs Automatics... both are great, but they're just a different option to take...
E) Overcasting is very useful, but only in certain circumstances, so my answer is no, I don't do it a lot (mainly because it's so Frickin' hard to heal!). Unless I'm damned sure I can take the drain (normally with Edge used on the drain test) I don't use it....
Note: I really think you'll overcast less when now you know you can't heal the drain damage yourself... ;)
F) If you have 9 dice for drain, and a +3 focus, and are regularly resisting 6 drain, then that is some excellent dice rolls my friend. On average you need 18 dice to resist this, not 12.
Note: What sort of Focus is it? If it's just a normal Rating 3 Combat Spell focus, then the +3 dice add to Spellcasting tests only (NOT drain tests). This is as per the rules on SR4A p.199, and means you really only have 9 dice for drain, regardless of Focus.
G) Nothing wrong with 6 Edge. It's exactly the same as my primary character, and I find it incredibly useful :)
!!! good to know about the Drain not being healable by magic. But no I've been resisting drain like a pro. When I DM my players hated this one gang member that i gave decent armor cus he pretty much massicured the group with rolls like 6 hits out of 8. XD
And the spell focus i believe i got specifically for drain, however I'll double check that. Thanks for double checking me. I appreciate it very much since reading the book sometimes you read a rule and it disappears when you learn the next rule!
-
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? I’m sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD
Wait til You get bitten by a Ghoul ;)
Also how often do you have the enemy/npc’s spend edge?
Sometimes ,mainly to survive.
Mooks get a Group edge that I use only sparingly (only when its important )
How important are spirits?
generally speaking ? very !
And do you over cast a lot?
with Spells ? often.
with Spirits ? rather never !
Hough !
Medicineman
-
I try to spend Edge for NPCs like I would for PCs. Sparingly and with an eye to saving my arse.
Spirits are as important as you want them to be. Certainly powerful, possibly too powerful, and if you push every advantage you can get with them to the edge almost definitley too powerful. Don't be the person who does that. Its not cool.
-
I try to spend Edge for NPCs like I would for PCs. Sparingly and with an eye to saving my arse.
Spirits are as important as you want them to be. Certainly powerful, possibly too powerful, and if you push every advantage you can get with them to the edge almost definitley too powerful. Don't be the person who does that. Its not cool.
On NPC Edge... really? ??? I blow it as fast as they can spend it. Seeing as many NPC's only get 3'ish Complex actions before PC's go out of their way to focus fire, I use it all ASAP.
Aww, what's wrong with pushing spirit powers way up there :P A little bit of Invoking and Channelling is good for the soul....
-
Yup. If my NPCs blow edge significantly faster than a PC would on account of me knowing metagame that he's screwed, that's an unfair advantage. Obviously, if its all going wrong, then yes, break it out. But I'm working on the belief that the NPC should behave like he's expecting to need edge afterwards, just like a PC. Although if I notice PC liberalism with edge, I often metagamingly follow suit. Theoretically at least. This bit is very theoretical, as I've only GM'ed two Shadowrun games. It makes sense to me though!
And I wasn't even thinking of Channeling and Invoking. I was just thinking of the wonders of Overcasting to get higher Force spirits, or just spamming as many force 6 spirits as possible. Mindyou, this might be a faulty grasp of the mechanics at play, but everything i've seen on them, and of them, says very scary.
-
No looking nojosecool:
[spoiler]I like to save a point of Edge on key antagonists so I can bring them back. My group last week handled a Horizon team far too easily... they're not all dead. Some of them have to pop up again, even some of the ones that were by all rights "killed".[/spoiler]
-
many players seem to forget that the same game mechanics that keep them from having to gen a new char each game work for the GM too, more so in fact.
-
Yup. If my NPCs blow edge significantly faster than a PC would on account of me knowing metagame that he's screwed, that's an unfair advantage. Obviously, if its all going wrong, then yes, break it out. But I'm working on the belief that the NPC should behave like he's expecting to need edge afterwards, just like a PC. Although if I notice PC liberalism with edge, I often metagamingly follow suit. Theoretically at least. This bit is very theoretical, as I've only GM'ed two Shadowrun games. It makes sense to me though!
And I wasn't even thinking of Channeling and Invoking. I was just thinking of the wonders of Overcasting to get higher Force spirits, or just spamming as many force 6 spirits as possible. Mindyou, this might be a faulty grasp of the mechanics at play, but everything i've seen on them, and of them, says very scary.
Both the number of spirits you can have and the force of those spirits are limited by Attributes (Charisma for number, Magic x2 for Force), so it's not limitless power, but definitely very scary :)
Downside is the tricky nature of healing Physical drain on overcasting. Summoning is pretty nasty in that regard....
As for edge, maybe I mis-spoke. If I (as GM) know the goons in question are a 1-hit wonder, then I'll unload.
If it's a cunning, sneaky foe, then yes I'm more sparing on the edge, saving it for a particularly evil use (up to and including Burning edge to survive).
-
No looking nojosecool:
[spoiler]I like to save a point of Edge on key antagonists so I can bring them back. My group last week handled a Horizon team far too easily... they're not all dead. Some of them have to pop up again, even some of the ones that were by all rights "killed".[/spoiler]
o.O'
The ol' Hand of God trick. Yeah I'm actually having trouble with coming up with a bad guy as a reoccuring character. Partly because I'm not sure i have a campaign storyline fully set up. Or where I want to take it because there are so many options.
I know if i could have them betrayed by another shadowrunner they run into at an opertune moment that'd be kind cool and just have him reoccuer ever few missions down the line.
You mind sharing with a new DM some of your devious villians and what they've done or how they were introduced/you came up with them? If so it would be appreciated. Very much so. :D
On a side note, I think I under use shotguns. Not once have I given an NPC a shotgun. Thoughts on this? Are they as deadly close range as they are in real life? :D thanks!
Also a question about my character. I made him on the princible, (this is probably something i should post on that character creation board huh?) on using pretty much only pistols. Is a 20 Dice pool pretty good? (This was before I saw the Adapt Gunslinger which I am now interested in but i don't think the DM will allow me to remake my character so aw well.) If your curious how it adds up to 20, it's (+7 Pistols,yes i took the feat for that, and then +9 for agility. Enhanced with bioware for that. Then I have specialization on heavy pistols which i use most of the time. +2, and then +2 for smartlink. Total of 20, if I edge 27)
-
Also a question about my character. I made him on the princible, (this is probably something i should post on that character creation board huh?) on using pretty much only pistols. Is a 20 Dice pool pretty good? (This was before I saw the Adapt Gunslinger which I am now interested in but i don't think the DM will allow me to remake my character so aw well.) If your curious how it adds up to 20, it's (+7 Pistols,yes i took the feat for that, and then +9 for agility. Enhanced with bioware for that. Then I have specialization on heavy pistols which i use most of the time. +2, and then +2 for smartlink. Total of 20, if I edge 27)
A) Pistols are great, and I'm a big fan of Heavy Pistols.
B) 20 dice is excellent, you should be fine
C) I'm curious as to how you have Edge 7 and Agility 9. If you're human, Edge 7 is the maximum attribute, as is Agility 6 (+3 for augmentation). However by RAW, you can only max 1 attribute at Chargen, and even doing that costs 25BP for the final point.
- Althout, if you took the Lucky quality (raise max edge) you could have maxxed agility...or been an Elf and Maxxed Edge... but still it's a strange combination of upper attribute limits, hence the query.
-
Ok, I'll admit to some confusion as well.
As far as I read it seemed that EDGE wasn't a counted attribute. For it is a seperate thing out of the usual 200 BP for building attributes. If i remember correctly. However maybe this will be solved when I mention that i am a Human and thus start out with 2 Edge. If i took Lucky like my friend did I would have 8 Edge like him. Which really, throughout the session me and him are known to be crazy with our edge. XD
We play however by the rule that from reading the board topics seems most people don't do. Recharge after every session. You guys do it by mission it seems, though most of the missions we are on only last one session so. *shrugs*
Anyways further inquiry welcome :D helps me get a grasp, and that is very welcome.
-
You mind sharing with a new DM some of your devious villians and what they've done or how they were introduced/you came up with them? If so it would be appreciated. Very much so. :D
On a side note, I think I under use shotguns. Not once have I given an NPC a shotgun. Thoughts on this? Are they as deadly close range as they are in real life? :D thanks!
To the unarmoured, Shotguns and their Flechette ammo are pretty much instant bad-day, possibly death if using a Semi-Automatic follow up shot.
With SR4 Armour though, Flechette ammo becomes less useful very quickly (unless you can get nasty Forbidden stuff like Teflon Flechette, but that's up there with Armour Piercing rounds, so is very hard to get).
However you can do bad things with Shotgun slugs, Shock-lock rounds and other assorted large-calibre special rounds, so Shotguns have a lot of flexibility, from the Sawn-off SA Defiant, to the OMG FA Assault Shotguns.... it's a useful skill...
-
Actually thus far i've done fine with my Sliver gun which is mostly my favorite gun but i do have a Colt America I believe just in case. It's probably however because of my 20 Dice pool however. I have the option of getting 2 (20 dice pool) shots off or 4 (10 dice pool shots off) I have Ambidexterity. Usually aim for the same person if not i get a -2 dice moddifer for shooting someone different if i'm not mistaken. :D
Though this character truthfully may not be used again for awhile, because when we played learning the game, we did some pretty crazy stuff being noobs and the DM wanted to start a new campaign if we got serious about shadowrun. So he made up a mission to get the main characters of the craziness and noterioty out of the picture. (I truthfully never killed a single innocent, and fired maybe 2 shots in those campaigns which for a combat oriented person is probably pretty amazing.) Anyways, it's guilty by accociation i guess. So this guy the 'Mountain that Moves' asked one of the newer shadowrunners that he new was connected to us to show up for a job. He used a name besides his Merc name to disguise who it was. Needless to say it said come weaponless. EVERYONE BUT ME didn't bring a weapon. >.> I brought my light pistols just in case. XD Well it was do this mission or have a gun fight with armed guards and a huge troll all of which had weapons and I'm the only one on my team with a weapon. Great, so we do start the mission for next week.
-
Ok, I'll admit to some confusion as well.
As far as I read it seemed that EDGE wasn't a counted attribute. For it is a seperate thing out of the usual 200 BP for building attributes. If i remember correctly. However maybe this will be solved when I mention that i am a Human and thus start out with 2 Edge. If i took Lucky like my friend did I would have 8 Edge like him. Which really, throughout the session me and him are known to be crazy with our edge. XD
We play however by the rule that from reading the board topics seems most people don't do. Recharge after every session. You guys do it by mission it seems, though most of the missions we are on only last one session so. *shrugs*
Anyways further inquiry welcome :D helps me get a grasp, and that is very welcome.
Just remember that Lucky doesn't actually GIVE another point of edge, it just raises the maximum. As such you still need to spend the BP to get the attribute that high as well.
I don't have my books handy, and while you're probably right in that Edge (and Magic/Resonance) are exempt from the normal 200BP spend limits due to being special attributes, they are still attributes, and as such only 1 of them can be maxxed on any PC.
-
Actually thus far i've done fine with my Sliver gun which is mostly my favorite gun but i do have a Colt America I believe just in case. It's probably however because of my 20 Dice pool however. I have the option of getting 2 (20 dice pool) shots off or 4 (10 dice pool shots off) I have Ambidexterity. Usually aim for the same person if not i get a -2 dice moddifer for shooting someone different if i'm not mistaken. :D
A) Sliverguns are nice. Make sure you have something to negate recoil penalties though.
B) When splitting Firearms for Ambidexterity, it's only the Attribute plus Skill pool that get's split. Ergo its Skill 7 plus attribute 9 plus specialisation 2 = 18 dice, divided by 2 is 9.
Smartlinks cannot be used when Dual-wielding, so can't be counted in the dice pool. (can't remember where the rule-book page, but it's along the lines of:
'two gun attacks negate the bonus from laser sights and smartlinks')
Of course, Vision mods, range etc can eat into that very quickly, but it's still respectable (I have a dual-wielding gun-bunny PC as well... I understand the appeal ;) )
-
Ah I see. I'll keep that in mind about smart links then. If that is so then I guess it's ok because the DM of that game didn't notice or let it slide. He's more knowledgable than me, though that may become moot here because he's rusty at it and i'm starting to DM it more than him. XD
I also edited my previous post with the start of the story of why my character isn't probably playable for awhile.
So we get knocked out by some drug wake up on a plane headed into Ares technology sector in New York city. (fun... right probably gonna die) They provide us Dead people's ID's that Ares don't know are dead yet. We head in with a single man on the inside and have to retrieve an old fashion disc. (which later found out had a recording of Dunkle*however it's spelt* getting assassinated by Harlequin. More on that later). We go in head down to the stairs. THe plan is to use a furnace shoot where data gets destroyed to get the disc out of there. The man on the inside would then go downstairs and retrieve it from the furnace and send it back to the Mountain that Moves so we could get him wanting to kill us off our back. Well we had down to that floor the door is bolt locked, and on top of that a metal detector. Well one of us had Plastic bullets. (miracle how the hell did she know we were going to need those?) anyways then i gave her my pistols and walked in)
This place looks like a library almost with a table and a woman with golden eyes. She greets me kindly enough, which is weird. She says this place hasn't been been entered in like 27 years some odd hours, minutes, seconds, ect. I am really thinkin this chick is really an AI, and she insists I come in and bring my friends. >.> weird lady. Asking her she often repeats herself, asking who she is. She says she's the "Archivist". Like to Archive something. Food magically appears on the table (this should have put me on alert but i thought it was just a hologram and she wanted to bring my defenses down. She was creepy that was for sure.
Anyways i looked for the file i needed to grab and there was a force field protecting it. My other friend came into the room and was looking around. THe door shut behind her. I wasn't getting anywhere with this lady so i told my friend to shoot her. She calmly says "You don't want to do this... come on (insert characters REAL NAME not fake sin or anything like that) you'll only get one." 1 Warning that is. My friend tried to light her up but her dice pool was a little rediculous and he rolled for her reaching out towards me. So i'm like... FUCK as he rolls dice against me standing next pretty close to her. She just touches me. I scramble over to my friend grab my pistols. Try to say something bad ass. "I'll get more than 1!"
I shot my pistols 4 dice pools of ten. Got a 3, 4, 4, and 5. Which the DM dodged first one, second one he spent edge once. And then on the 5 he spent edge twice to reroll non hits. Bastard. anyways missed the lady and then she came up and literally bent my guns with a dice pool of 40. <.< yeah.... he used edge on that as well and got 26 hits. I decided to save my last edge.
More talking with the lady and found out she was supposed to give me the disc to be sent down the furnace and that I was payment for the information we were obtaining. <.< The mountain the Moves promised this dragon "Companions" for the next 13 years. At which we were free to go from that room.
Don't suppose anyone's got any ideas on escape.
Something I'm going to bring up with that DM however, that I read great dragons while in Human form are weaker than the stats they list so I think i should have had a better chance than that. Aw well. I got free access to the matrix while i'm in here, and the DM told me I also had access to places in the Trix where you had to hack your way in. <.< Still want to escape however. xD
-
A) How old are you people. Lady is trying to give you a job, but you want to shoot her? Come on....
B) If a great dragon is in human form, it may indeed be weaker than it normally is, but is never unprotected and is always going to beat you. Great Dragons are the unbeatable foes of the SR4 world. A shadowrunner without an army and a tank for support should pretty much flee in terror and scrape for forgiveness. It's only through GM nicety that your PC is not dead.
C) How did you get your guns past the metal detector? On one hand you handed them in...next you're shooting them...what am I missing here?
D) She didn't actually need to dodge. Great dragons normally have enough magical defenses and edge-twisting powers that basically you were screwed from the beginning.
E) So right now you're in a luxury holding cell, waiting for the next component. Fair enough. You're lucky you're not dead and rolling up a new character...
-
A) How old are you people. Lady is trying to give you a job, but you want to shoot her? Come on....
B) If a great dragon is in human form, it may indeed be weaker than it normally is, but is never unprotected and is always going to beat you. Great Dragons are the unbeatable foes of the SR4 world. A shadowrunner without an army and a tank for support should pretty much flee in terror and scrape for forgiveness. It's only through GM nicety that your PC is not dead.
C) How did you get your guns past the metal detector? On one hand you handed them in...next you're shooting them...what am I missing here?
D) She didn't actually need to dodge. Great dragons normally have enough magical defenses and edge-twisting powers that basically you were screwed from the beginning.
E) So right now you're in a luxury holding cell, waiting for the next component. Fair enough. You're lucky you're not dead and rolling up a new character...
A) Not really giving me a job. I don't get paid for it, XD. I tried to shoot her because at that time she wouldn't give up the information and I saw no other way to get it. (apparently all I had to do was ask for a copy and not the original which after my shots failed I opted to sit down at her nice table and eat the food. What other choice did I have since I want to save my last pistol in case i need it. On another note it was supposed to capture the PC's with Notoriety of 3 and 4. (again me guilty by association I was the common sense of the group it seems.) He failed in capturing the 8 edge guy who was busy that weekend. >.> Still want to break out of that Magic/full matrix room. xD
B) Yes I understand, that he's only alive because of DM nicety however I find hard to believe my PC would just sit there for 13 years even if he has access to an archive full of knowledge and Ares secrets. xD He's sort of a free spirit so he'd be trying to leave all the time.
C) I handed them in because i thought an alarm would go off in the building. Well the lady said she controlled that. (thats when i thought she was a robot.)
D) xD I guess, if I had tried a single pistol I think it would have been different for that dodging however. XD I had the dragon spend 4 edge in one round. If only the guy with 8 edge had been there. XD
E) Lucky yes, sort of. I still have to use a different character. <.< If i was in that situation i'd want to blow my brains out. XD
-
OK, I'm confused. Here's the rule from SR4A:
Players may not spend more than half their total BP on Physical
and Mental attributes (for a standard 400 BP character, this means a
cap of 200 BP). Also, characters cannot have more than one attribute
at their natural maximum. This measure prevents overspending in attributes
and ensures that characters are well rounded.
That's under Physical and Mental, page 82, of character creation. There's a separate heading for Edge, Essence, and Magic/Resonance.
Because of the separation, I read this as meaning I can only have one 6 in my physical/mental attributes, but Edge and Magic/Resonance are separate.
Yet I can see the interpretation Charybdis had as well.
Is there an official statement somewhere clarifying this? I've looked and don't see any such thing.
(Apologies if Charybdis is official. I 'R' Newby.)
-
^that's what I thought as well.
-
edge separate is how i'm running my campaign, in part because the chargen i'm using counts edge as "not a stat"
-
edge separate is how i'm running my campaign, in part because the chargen i'm using counts edge as "not a stat"
That's how I'll be doing mine unless I find something in the book that says otherwise, and then I might just make it a house rule. I don't think "luck" should be quantified as an attribute. Who knows however.
Was reading more of the book today, and I found Initiatives for Mages. Does this have to be done after the Mage is created and thus have to spend Karma or can this be made during the building process. O.o' either way i see that it raises your Magic stat as above 6 sort of.
Does that mean it is possible to cast over 12 Force spells? Which I assumed were the maximum and that's dangerous enough as is because 12 damage coming at you is daunting. XD
-
Was reading more of the book today, and I found Initiatives for Mages. Does this have to be done after the Mage is created and thus have to spend Karma or can this be made during the building process. O.o' either way i see that it raises your Magic stat as above 6 sort of.
Does that mean it is possible to cast over 12 Force spells? Which I assumed were the maximum and that's dangerous enough as is because 12 damage coming at you is daunting. XD
Some GM's allow BP to be spent on Initiation at CharGen, but it's not an official rule.
Normally Initiation has to wait until in-Game Karma can be spent, and it's expensive.
Yes, it allows Magic to be raised above 6 (well, well above 6). There are Legendary runners out there with Magic 10, allowing them to Overcast at F20 should they choose.
I have a Magician PC currently with Magic 8, and casting F15 is the highest spell cast to date.... Even with Centering and Absorption metamagics, it still hurt.... next thing on the Agenda is saving 45 karma to raise Magic to 9, but it's a long journey to do so....
-
Nothing wrong with a pistolier, but the first few "Rules of a Gunfight", as I learned them, are as follows:
Rule 1: Bring a gun.
Rule 2: If possible, bring a long gun.
Rule 3: Bring your friends.
Rule 4: Have your friends bring long guns.
But hey...style over substance is a core tenant of Cyberpunk.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
Those are for soldiers, Joe. Shadowrunners can't carry their assault rifles on their shoulders openly.
But, yes. Pistols are the tool you use to get to the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place.
-
amen,
-
Was reading more of the book today, and I found Initiatives for Mages. Does this have to be done after the Mage is created and thus have to spend Karma or can this be made during the building process. O.o' either way i see that it raises your Magic stat as above 6 sort of.
Does that mean it is possible to cast over 12 Force spells? Which I assumed were the maximum and that's dangerous enough as is because 12 damage coming at you is daunting. XD
Some GM's allow BP to be spent on Initiation at CharGen, but it's not an official rule.
Normally Initiation has to wait until in-Game Karma can be spent, and it's expensive.
Yes, it allows Magic to be raised above 6 (well, well above 6). There are Legendary runners out there with Magic 10, allowing them to Overcast at F20 should they choose.
I have a Magician PC currently with Magic 8, and casting F15 is the highest spell cast to date.... Even with Centering and Absorption metamagics, it still hurt.... next thing on the Agenda is saving 45 karma to raise Magic to 9, but it's a long journey to do so....
45?
I thought the cost was 10+(grade of initiation X3).
So me with six magic and no initiation would be 10 + (1 initiation grade x3) which would be 10+3 = 13 karma. I'll have that probably by next game session I thinks. Anyways it looks like it would be 13, 16, 19, 21, 24, and then 28 would the Karma points. Not sure where 45 Karma came from however! I will say even that is a lot. XD
-
So me with six magic and no initiation would be 10 + (1 initiation grade x3) which would be 10+3 = 13 karma.
thats right.
Now You have to raise your MAG from 6 --->7 which is another 35 Karma
an initiation is no automatic Raise of Your magic Attribute
the 45 is to raise Your MAG from 8--->9 ;)
with an expensive Dance
Medicineman
-
So me with six magic and no initiation would be 10 + (1 initiation grade x3) which would be 10+3 = 13 karma.
thats right.
Now You have to raise your MAG from 6 --->7 which is another 35 Karma
an initiation is no automatic Raise of Your magic Attribute
the 45 is to raise Your MAG from 8--->9 ;)
with an expensive Dance
Medicineman
Oh that's where I'm misunderstading. Holy cow that's a lot of Karma.
I was under the impression that you could use your grade of initiation in your Magic pool and it was basically considered magic. Kinda like Augmentations you write on your sheet. 6 ( 8 ). <.< That's how the examples of using it seemed at least. Thanks for the correction, i'll take a closer look next time i'm home.
-
Those are for soldiers, Joe. Shadowrunners can't carry their assault rifles on their shoulders openly.
But, yes. Pistols are the tool you use to get to the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place.
My Merc carries a custom M-22 SBR with the same Concealment rating as a Hold-Out Pistol. ;)
I didn't spend all those Knowledge Skill points on Firearms Design for nothin'!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
I thought everyone used the Battle Rifle modded for Full Auto now. Assault rifles... yesterday's news :p
-
Those are for soldiers, Joe. Shadowrunners can't carry their assault rifles on their shoulders openly.
But, yes. Pistols are the tool you use to get to the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place.
My Merc carries a custom M-22 SBR with the same Concealment rating as a Hold-Out Pistol. ;)
I didn't spend all those Knowledge Skill points on Firearms Design for nothin'!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Kinda like that pistol that folds up into a small cube?
-
Those are for soldiers, Joe. Shadowrunners can't carry their assault rifles on their shoulders openly.
But, yes. Pistols are the tool you use to get to the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place.
My Merc carries a custom M-22 SBR with the same Concealment rating as a Hold-Out Pistol. ;)
I didn't spend all those Knowledge Skill points on Firearms Design for nothin'!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Kinda like that pistol that folds up into a small cube?
Nah, more like ruthemium polymer and a hacksaw. ;D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
As another new GM, I have a question! I'm trying to understand the Matrix rules (thankfully, none of my players made a hacker or technomancer, but I'm preparing for the future) and I'm wondering....why would a person play a hacker over a technomancer?
Using an analogy from The Matrix, my friend said that a technomancer is Neo and a hacker is Tank, and let's face it: we all wanna be Neo. Is there something I'm missing rules-wise that makes your basic hacker more appealing than a technomancer?
-
the lack of twitchiness when outside of wifi areas?
the fact that anyone can buy the gear for being a hacker and learn the skills later?
the fact that a mage can do the mage decker thing if they want? (dear god why?)
-
lol, thanks, beo! That's kinda what I told my friend. I said that hackers can buy programs with nuyen, whereas technomancers have to use bp/karma for complex forms. That seems to give a big advantage to hackers since they can then use those bps/karma in other skills. In general (imo) bp/karam are more valuable than nuyen. Being able to be a better hacker by spending nuyen rather than karma is a big advantage, but I didn't see anything else. Though the versatility you mentioned is interesting lol. Have you seen the mage/hacker thing done?
-
Using an analogy from The Matrix, my friend said that a technomancer is Neo and a hacker is Tank, and let's face it: we all wanna be Neo. Is there something I'm missing rules-wise that makes your basic hacker more appealing than a technomancer?
That's a pretty good analogy, but like neo:
- The authorities will scan you and hunt you down
- Those that aren't impressed with you are worried you can read their minds and rewrite their code.
- TM's have to spend Karma to upgrade... Hackers can upgrade with Nuyen as well...
-
very painfully
one of those jack of too many trades and good at zero things
-
Have you seen the mage/hacker thing done?
Not well.
Magic requires as little Cyberware as possible.
Magic is not comopatible with Resonance, so can't be a Mage/Technomancer
Hacking is very easy to improve with Cyberware....
So while you can easily be a mage who is a good computer user (moderate skills and equipment), having the high skills and resources to be a proper hacker really isn't conducive for a mage PC :(
-
So let's say that 2 people use the standard 400bp to create a character: one a hacker and one a technomancer. Is there any noticeable difference in power in the Matrix? I'm just curious.
-
One can kill you with their brain.
The other needs a little more help to kill you with their brain.
-
One can kill you with their brain.
The other needs a little more help to kill you with their brain.
>.> *quick draws heavy pistol and fires*
How's that for brain power? xD
reread the initiation for mages. Can't believe i missed that important part. It makes me sad however.... 13 Karma and then 35 Karma on top of that. T.T
Another note, had a question about what most people do their storylines after. I mean it seems you could make the triple AAA's to be the bad guys or Dragons. Is that the usual campaign type that most people do? I get the feeling you could do almost anything you wanted with Shadowrun, since these are people that just turned to making quick money so they could live. As players I don't think I always think like someone who had opted to take another life of secrecy, so life could be easier in other aspects.
I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)
-
personally i feel that dragons should never be the johnson, they have other things to do with their time.
now if skulh has a personal wageslave who happens to be johnson,, that approximately normal.
-
So let's say that 2 people use the standard 400bp to create a character: one a hacker and one a technomancer. Is there any noticeable difference in power in the Matrix? I'm just curious.
That's a bad Question (ImO)
It totally depends upon how You build the Char, how much You Min/Max
I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)
Why not ? You don't need to take one of the Great Dragons, there are a couple of other Ones that You can use for Your Campaign.
personally I think that using a Great Dragon is ...."to big as a Start"
but remember that Dragons don't use any Cyberware and work in the Matrix like a normal Person only.So no Dragon Hacker PLEASE :)
personally i feel that dragons should never be the johnson, they have other things to do with their time.
Don't confuse Dragons and Great Dragons and even Great Dragons ...."sully their Hands" (is that the right expression ?) sometimes
with a sullied Dance
Medicineman
-
Another note, had a question about what most people do their storylines after. I mean it seems you could make the triple AAA's to be the bad guys or Dragons. Is that the usual campaign type that most people do? I get the feeling you could do almost anything you wanted with Shadowrun, since these are people that just turned to making quick money so they could live. As players I don't think I always think like someone who had opted to take another life of secrecy, so life could be easier in other aspects.
I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)
You can make anyone be a campaign villain, and they don't even have to be powerful, just clever, and preferably with some cash (but not mandatory):
Skulh could be:
- A bored, psychotic brat who hacked his way into Daddy's bank account and wants to eliminate his competition
-- Or set the PC's up to rob his own house, perform other crimes, then plans to turn them in to the police for whatever reward is being offered
- The middle-man for a Toxic shaman lining your PC's up to get the parts for a dirty bomb
I very rarely use Dragons or high-power megacorps. These things are the sledgehammers of the Shadorun universe, and you don't need a sledgehammer for beginning PC's. The first Stuffer-Shack run is a good example.
However as Megacorps and dragons use layers of intermediaries and shell companies, it was always a possibility, but never outright explained or said, and really doesn't need to be.
-
I'd agree that a Great Dragon certainly should be reserved for major players. 100 karma in and with scores of succesful missions? Hell yeah! Just starting...? He's gone to those guys.
As for the Hacker/Technomancer thing... Neo was a douche. A great big whiney douche who was handed all his power on a plate yet spent too much time being useless and not enough time being awesome/undressing whateverthehellhernamewasn't. Meanwhile, Tank was cool and worked for his powers. Based on that, I'd be the godsdamned hacker.
Not that everyone would be like that. But some might prefer the flavour, and insofar as I can tell, it is not an option that screws yourself over.
-
At this point (beginners), if I wanted a dragon tied in at all, he'd either be who Skuhl was trying to emulate (red herrings - Skuhl isn't, but a lot of clues say he might be) or the dragon is the boss of the boss of Skuhl's chief advisor. You know, the one who'll inevitably but surprisingly betray Skuhl (when it'll make it worse for your party, of course).
-
At this point (beginners), if I wanted a dragon tied in at all, he'd either be who Skuhl was trying to emulate (red herrings - Skuhl isn't, but a lot of clues say he might be) or the dragon is the boss of the boss of Skuhl's chief advisor. You know, the one who'll inevitably but surprisingly betray Skuhl (when it'll make it worse for your party, of course).
I guess the question is: Why does it have to be a dragon?
Why can't it just be another Megacorp exec? Or a rival Johnson?
How is the big villain being a dragon adding to the story?
If it's not, then why bother? Save the dragon for some great big climactic scene where it eats the 'villain' the PC's thought was in charge. Or have it ignore a sniper shot as an opposing Runner team comes charging into the mix...
But if it's just another guy with dialogue, that's a waste of a dragon....
-
I guess the question is: Why does it have to be a dragon?
If You'd ask Me I'd answer:
Because I can ;D
But to be honest, I hardly used any Dragons. Only recently when I'm playing my Fomori Drake.Her "Fixer" is Perianwyr
How is the big villain being a dragon adding to the story?
because its a Dragon and its Shadowrun.
in a Cyberpunk or Corporate Setting You can't have a Dragon as a "main Villain"
I totally Agree that a Great Drake is wahay too much and its not the best of Ideas to use a Dragon for beginning Chars,but the Dragon as the Boss of Skuhl is (ImO )a good compromise
He who dances with Dragons
Medicineman
-
I think the real answere here is "Some people like Dragons".
I know I do. My current adventure arc has none, which makes me sad, but I intend to correct this at some point in the future.
-
I'll take the advice to heart, not to use them too soon. I feel however if they were put into a game then they are there for a reason. It's like an argument I have with the person that got me into DnD.
I read the Steven Erikson's book serise called "Malazan Books of the Fallen" that have gods placed all throughout the story. Faerun has about as many gods as the books. Somehow we got into a conversation if the group could ever possibly run into a god. He said no, what are the odds of you running into a god.
Now my perspective when your playing, your playing Hero's or people above average commoner in Dungeons and Dragons. I'd say your MORE likely to come into contact with one of them. Not right off the bat but as you go up in levels and are affecting the realm you'd either be stepping on some god toes or helping some. I don't see anything wrong with having them make a few appearances rather than not at all because whats the fun in not using something developed?
Though again, I realize much of what "Should" go into a campaign is what the PC's want, and is also up to personal preference. Some people like Monty Haul Dming. (giving out lots of loot and mostly only killing things. Lots of epicness with no real flare)
An interesting point in the argument for me was he asked the very same question. "Why does it have to be a god? Why can't it be the high priest of a god? What does it add to the story?"
Me and him are of differing oppinions, i think it being the actual god is more impressive. (in the example we were discussing getting a quest.) If it was straight from the god it definately adds to the story.
>.> After what the group has experienced with their first dragon or rather I have. (being captured in that room) I can truthfully say I doubt they would turn him down. XD I also don't plan on unleashing this fact for months to come down the road, and they'll have to figure out Skulh is a dragon by theirselves because he will continue to meet them obscurely or send others in his place. I just wanted oppinions from people, and I thank you for all who expressed them :D.
On a side note, no one shared their own bad guys? No one wants to share? xD
-
You don't need to have dragons to be monsters.
The worst monsters can be the ones we see in the mirror. Or on the street.
-
You don't need to have dragons to be monsters.
The worst monsters can be the ones we see in the mirror. Or on the street.
By the time you see the monster in the mirror it's already too late, and you don't realize what you've become tho! xD
I do like those tragic type of stories however. :D
-
You want tragic?
They see the monster coming in the mirror a bit at a time, and refuse to change from their course anyhow. Because they like what they see.
-
Then your not a monster are you :P.
-
Not that kind.
-
i can totally feel the some folks just like dragons, agree with the not all dragons keep their claws unsullied and certainly see the desire to include dragons in your SR world. as you say we're playing the "heroes", if the heroes don't see the stuff that others only dream about, why have it the world.
i just think you shouldn't use it so often that they feel the dragon is less awe inspiring than it should be. this is a creature that hibernates for like 6000 years when the mana level is too low. they think in ages, eons and millenia. they do really rock when played right. haughty, arrogant, "wise" and powerful, and that's the one who woke up last month.
-
I think the real answere here is "Some people like Dragons".
I know I do. My current adventure arc has none, which makes me sad, but I intend to correct this at some point in the future.
My tattoos will attest that I also like dragons ;) which is why I don't want to see them become either commonplace or cliched.
To have them as a background villain makes great sense. But unless there's a reason for it to be a dragon, SR has many other delicious villain options to choose from.
If people are using dragons 'just because they can' I think it's a terible waste....
-
If people are using dragons 'just because they can' I think it's a terible waste....
not if they use the Dragons sparingly ;)
He who dances with the Dragons
Medicineman
-
Not if you don't know they're dragons.
-
Not if you don't know they're dragons.
I'm a newb to SR, of course, but not to gaming in general, and I wholeheartedly agree. Dragons can take many forms, and it can be a great surprise if someone they thought was a low-level whatever suddenly turns out to be much, much more.
But a friend and I played a D&D3e campaign for a bit at our FLGS and the FIRST adventure involved dragons in their natural form. Granted, the DM at the time was using his own home-made world, but I generally think all settings (SR included) should have a general rule: dragons are badass, use sparingly (at least in their natural form).
However, an awesome campaign could probably be built where the characters are being used by a dragon from the get-go for his own personal gain; they just don't find that out until they've earned dozens of karma. Maybe he's their fixer for the first 20 runs; then, on run 21, tries to get them killed off to cover his tracks. How do you enact revenge against a dragon? Many peopel might think that a dragon doesn't want to get his hand dirty like that, preferring to work deep in the shadows, but it's been rumored that Ghostwalker has lost some of his power. Maybe there's a reason for that...
-
I gave my group two choices for getting Taxis in the Barrens: Ghoul Cab and Dragon Taxi.
They called up Dragon Taxi, and got a Dragon in a Turban with his "Voice". Three words, and they hung up.
They used Ghoul Cab ever since. It was a cheaper choice for them anyhow, and occasionally they paid in fresh bodies.
-
gave my group two choices for getting Taxis in the Barrens: Ghoul Cab and Dragon Taxi.
They called up Dragon Taxi, and got a Dragon in a Turban with his "Voice". Three words, and they hung up.
They used Ghoul Cab ever since. It was a cheaper choice for them anyhow, and occasionally they paid in fresh bodies.
This is a really fun idea, I think. I'm very tempted to do something similar myself.
-
Feel free. I'll see if I can dig up the quotes I had for the Ghoul Cab answers to any calls.
EDIT: A SMALL list of what I had written. I think I lost the notebook. :( (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=35271&view=findpost&p=1083611)
-
Feel free. I'll see if I can dig up the quotes I had for the Ghoul Cab answers to any calls.
EDIT: A SMALL list of what I had written. I think I lost the notebook. :( (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=35271&view=findpost&p=1083611)
I like the arm and a leg one. Where those cabs just so your people could get around? XD
-
Ghoul Cab was the only Taxi Company other than Dragon Taxi that DID NOT CARE where you called from, they came and picked you up and delivered you.
Deepest, darkest z-zone barrens? Fifteen minutes.
That'll be 500¥ for the pick-up alone.
-
and yet an armored palanquin carried by a squad of dzoo-nu-qua would seem so much more fun.
-
Sorta-kinda.
*Seeing Ghoul Cab for the first time* "You're NOT getting out of the car!" "And get robbed by you lot, forget it. Just get in and let's go, the meter is running already."
-
I got a question about explosives. It's a thing I've been using on the fly. I've looked at the grenade section and it shows a 1 2 3 4 5 6 spread. Is that the way the explosion goes out? If so is it totally possible not to get hit by a grenade that lands near you? Also does the damage fade with distance?
Reading further into the book, i'm curious does everyone do the award karma on those things? I've noticed if you play with a smaller group More Karma per character tends to be given out, than a larger group. Thoughts? I remember reading somewhere for 2,500 credits per karma equation somewhere in this topic. I'm afraid I may have been giving my guys dirt cheap jobs, though in truth. I'm not sure they've faced anything overtly challenging like breaking into a security building. Though this mission they are currently where Wyoming State used to be. The Sioux Territory in a city with an outbreak virus that they delievered. (>.> they crashed their plane xD) anyways think RE Racoon City and you get the picture) Not sure how they are going to make money out of this one but it should be interesting to say the least.
I wonder if Ghouls look like zombies... if so i could add that in, and they'd probably shoot first and ask questions later until it talks to them. xD
-
I got a question about explosives. It's a thing I've been using on the fly. I've looked at the grenade section and it shows a 1 2 3 4 5 6 spread. Is that the way the explosion goes out? If so is it totally possible not to get hit by a grenade that lands near you? Also does the damage fade with distance?
Reading further into the book, i'm curious does everyone do the award karma on those things? I've noticed if you play with a smaller group More Karma per character tends to be given out, than a larger group. Thoughts? I remember reading somewhere for 2,500 credits per karma equation somewhere in this topic. I'm afraid I may have been giving my guys dirt cheap jobs, though in truth. I'm not sure they've faced anything overtly challenging like breaking into a security building. Though this mission they are currently where Wyoming State used to be. The Sioux Territory in a city with an outbreak virus that they delievered. (>.> they crashed their plane xD) anyways think RE Racoon City and you get the picture) Not sure how they are going to make money out of this one but it should be interesting to say the least.
I wonder if Ghouls look like zombies... if so i could add that in, and they'd probably shoot first and ask questions later until it talks to them. xD
A) The 1 2 3 4 5 6 is for Scatter (not spread). Grenades rarely explode exactly where you want them to, especially for new PC's. Very few PC's take the skills and adjustments necessary to get pinpoint accuracy on grenades right out of the gate ;)
B) Yes, damage fades with distance. All grenades (and other explosives) have a rating per meter, which is how much LESS damage they do the further you are away. For example a Grenade that does (10P, -2/m) will do 10P damage if at your feet, 8P damage if 1meter away, 6P at 2meters, 4P at 3meters, 2P at 4meters, and Zero damage if 5meters or further from the target.
C) Karma and cash are not equivalent. There are guidelines, and the book provides these. In SR4, I've been on runs which gave 50k and 5 Karma, and others where cash was 10K but gave 8 karma.... there's no direct scale between the two...
D) Ghouls can look like Zombies... but not necessarily. They can be as weird, or as normal-looking as the GM desires.... and as with every other metahuman race, they can have dramatic variance between them ranging the full spectrum of appearances...
-
I got a question about explosives. It's a thing I've been using on the fly. I've looked at the grenade section and it shows a 1 2 3 4 5 6 spread. Is that the way the explosion goes out? If so is it totally possible not to get hit by a grenade that lands near you? Also does the damage fade with distance?
The Scatter rules are...sub-optimal.
The roll determines the direction the 'nade bounces, and another roll, modified by net hits, determines the distance. Each grenade has a fade listed on the table along with damage. So if it has "-2/4m" it would lose 2 damage every 4m away from the point of detonation.
Not ALL grenades reduce that way - Flashbangs, for instance - but most do.
-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate
-
The Scatter rules are...sub-optimal.
You're being nice. Who are you, and when did you hack Joe's account? ;D
FWIW it's worth it makes a mediocre compromise between Miss+scatter accuracy and simplicity for an AoE attack. It could be worse.
-
I got a question about explosives. It's a thing I've been using on the fly. I've looked at the grenade section and it shows a 1 2 3 4 5 6 spread. Is that the way the explosion goes out? If so is it totally possible not to get hit by a grenade that lands near you? Also does the damage fade with distance?
The Scatter rules are...sub-optimal.
The roll determines the direction the 'nade bounces, and another roll, modified by net hits, determines the distance. Each grenade has a fade listed on the table along with damage. So if it has "-2/4m" it would lose 2 damage every 4m away from the point of detonation.
Not ALL grenades reduce that way - Flashbangs, for instance - but most do.
-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate
Ok I think I get part of what you guys are saying now. When you throw a grenade It only makes sence that it would bounce. (heh, even though I would have never concluded that without someone reminding me.)
So that 123456 is which way it bounces from where you threw it. and the net his are how far it bounces? If so why would you WANT net hits? Wouldn't that make it further away from your target? Or can you choose to count net hits to it land's where you want it to land? o.O'
I'm asking because my group seems to like using grenades. (flash has been used the most and flare compensation has made it pretty easy to ignore them) However I want to start using them tactically against my shadowrunner PC's to show them how you do it. (heh, that should be interesting *grins*)
-
I'm always nice...
...by my standards. :P
(I would think that my sig lines would be warning enough.)
Scatter - the net hits are subtracted from the Scatter roll, not added. The Scatter roll is calculated based on what is Scattering...I think 'nades are 2D6? Some would suggest that the safest person is the target.
Also, the fuse on the grenade is based on how fast the thrower is - it detonates on his next Initiative Pass, so if you're a speed demon, throw your grenades later in the round.
Like I said...the rules are a bit quirky in this area.
-Jn-
Ifriti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit) Sophist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist)
-
I'm always nice...
...by my standards. :P
(I would think that my sig lines would be warning enough.)
Scatter - the net hits are subtracted from the Scatter roll, not added. The Scatter roll is calculated based on what is Scattering...I think 'nades are 2D6? Some would suggest that the safest person is the target.
Also, the fuse on the grenade is based on how fast the thrower is - it detonates on his next Initiative Pass, so if you're a speed demon, throw your grenades later in the round.
Like I said...the rules are a bit quirky in this area.
-Jn-
Ifriti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit) Sophist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist)
*static appears on the screen behind me showing what I'm thinking*
So besides looking at that and being like a dwarf in the headlights of a speeding hovercraft.
Does scatter determine the way the explosion goes outward? If so why would you want net hits to reduce scatter?
-
The explosion from a grenade is spherical. It goes outward in all directions.
The Scatter direction determines the direction of the bounce. A second roll determines the distance of the Scatter, which for grenades I believe is (2D6 - Net Hits). Damage is reduced by calculating the distance from the blast and applying damage reduction as per the specific type of grenade.
So the more Net Hits, the closer the 'nade lands, and therefore the less fade is applied to the damage.
I think you're seeing the word "Scatter" and thinking about fragments. Fragmentation is a function of the blast radius.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
The explosion from a grenade is spherical. It goes outward in all directions.
The Scatter direction determines the direction of the bounce. A second roll determines the distance of the Scatter, which for grenades I believe is (2D6 - Net Hits). Damage is reduced by calculating the distance from the blast and applying damage reduction as per the specific type of grenade.
So the more Net Hits, the closer the 'nade lands, and therefore the less fade is applied to the damage.
I think you're seeing the word "Scatter" and thinking about fragments. Fragmentation is a function of the blast radius.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
That is exactly what I was thinking yes.
-
Hey Zilfer,
I've been reading through the thread here and I noticed something about your payer's troll.
That adrenal pump he's using?
That is one very dangerous piece of gear.
Sure, it gives some great bonuses and makes you imune to stunning, but, once it is activated you can not turn it off.
The pump works for Rating x 1D6 turns; this duration cannot be ended prematurely. SR4A pg 345. (emphasis mine)
Also, on the same page:
When the duration ends, the user crashes, immediately taking one box of unresisted Stun damage for every turn the pump was active.
That means that he will take the damage and he can't even try to resist it.
In short, this is a useful piece of bioware (which, incidently, means that the hacker can't control it. It has no electronic components), but should never be a go to option, more of a "Wholly crap, we're gonna die if I don't use this!!!" option.
Also keep in mind that if you are feeling particularly evil you can call for a composure roll under stressfull conditions (like combat), if he fails the pump activates whether he wants it to or not.
Just my 2 NewYen worth.
-Erich
-
Hey Zilfer,
I've been reading through the thread here and I noticed something about your payer's troll.
That adrenal pump he's using?
That is one very dangerous piece of gear.
Sure, it gives some great bonuses and makes you imune to stunning, but, once it is activated you can not turn it off.
The pump works for Rating x 1D6 turns; this duration cannot be ended prematurely. SR4A pg 345. (emphasis mine)
Also, on the same page:
When the duration ends, the user crashes, immediately taking one box of unresisted Stun damage for every turn the pump was active.
That means that he will take the damage and he can't even try to resist it.
In short, this is a useful piece of bioware (which, incidently, means that the hacker can't control it. It has no electronic components), but should never be a go to option, more of a "Wholly crap, we're gonna die if I don't use this!!!" option.
Also keep in mind that if you are feeling particularly evil you can call for a composure roll under stressfull conditions (like combat), if he fails the pump activates whether he wants it to or not.
Just my 2 NewYen worth.
-Erich
O.o' interesting, was this in the main book or supplement?
-
Erich quoted book and page. SR4A (Shadowrun 4th Edition, 20th Anniversary Printing), Page 345.
...
So, yes, main rule book.
-
Erich quoted book and page. SR4A (Shadowrun 4th Edition, 20th Anniversary Printing), Page 345.
...
So, yes, main rule book.
"Hi, my name is Roy, and I'm in a super amount of pain, right now."
-- Mystery Men
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
I'm sorry, are my Tech Support scars showing?
-
I understand the frustration.
I'm sure you also understand some people go onto the internet to check up on things while working at work. I skimmed the post and my eyes naturally block out sources from reading papers with sources spilled everywhere through it. xD
Anyways it helps when your the only IT guy at work. :D
Though really i'm more half receptionist half IT. (xD well you gotta get a job where you can sometimes. xD)
Thanks for pointing out the obvious for me however.
I had a question about combat spells. Does each hit increase the DV? I saw it was optional in the direct but way down at the bottom of that page i also saw a section where it acted like it was a rule. <.< so..... oppinions?
If it's per hit than that makes spells a whole lot more deadly!!!!
-
I can't be arsed to go through the book, but that's how I always ran it.
It can get upsetting when you overflow stun damage into physical, however.
"Damn, that man fell asleep so hard he got a nose bleed. And blood coming out of his ears. And eyes. ... Oh, that's not good."
-
I can't be arsed to go through the book, but that's how I always ran it.
It can get upsetting when you overflow stun damage into physical, however.
"Damn, that man fell asleep so hard he got a nose bleed. And blood coming out of his ears. And eyes. ... Oh, that's not good."
More like it started to effect your organs, and they started to fail... XD nose bleeds are for perverts.
-
Hense the comments about ears and eyes also bleeding.
-
I can't be arsed to go through the book, but that's how I always ran it.
It can get upsetting when you overflow stun damage into physical, however.
"Damn, that man fell asleep so hard he got a nose bleed. And blood coming out of his ears. And eyes. ... Oh, that's not good."
More like it started to effect your organs, and they started to fail... XD nose bleeds are for perverts.
Strawberry milkshake?
-
^>.> I’m quite sure THAT milkshake doesn’t bring all the boyz to the yard…. <.< Unless we are talking about the English Yard. xD
-
A few more questions for you brainiacs out there....
First, when infultrating a building how suspicious is climbing a building and how likely are you to fall to your death? Also building security how fast is that likely to respond. 1 minute? 5 minutes? xD
Also had a question because i have someone I REAALLLY want to kill as a PC and was wondering if this was a legitamate option. I want to set up a meeting with this NPC where a sniper can snipe him and i was trying to think of ways to take him down with one shot. I know i've read in the book and some places on here that you can up your dice pool by taking aim actions and i was thinking if i could stall this guy long enough in the sniper's view than that dice pool would add up.
Now my question in combat turns every 2 seconds you get your turns and can do two aim actions? Do you think it would then be reasonable for every two seconds i talk to the guy there'd be a +2 moddifer to my friends sniper shot? Is there a CAP to the Aim action as well?
Edit: Not sure it matters that I bumped this, thus i'm not sure if i should have made another topic but i often refer back to this topic for my questions to review what i've learned. Thanks for all the responses!
-
I'm only going to grab one of your subjects:
Why do you really want to kill this PC? Is it the PC or is it the player? If you kill the PC, is the player just going to recreate him?
-
I'm only going to grab one of your subjects:
Why do you really want to kill this PC? Is it the PC or is it the player? If you kill the PC, is the player just going to recreate him?
no no no, you miss understand. In this case i'm the player wanting to kill an NPC. :P
this time around.
I could easily see your concern if it was the DM wanting to kill a character. xD I usually like to keep my Player's Character's alive. Death is often just not that fun. xD
-
I'm only going to grab one of your subjects:
Why do you really want to kill this PC? Is it the PC or is it the player? If you kill the PC, is the player just going to recreate him?
no no no, you miss understand. In this case i'm the player wanting to kill an NPC. :P
this time around.
I could easily see your concern if it was the DM wanting to kill a character. xD I usually like to keep my Player's Character's alive. Death is often just not that fun. xD
Aaaah. In that case, research (legwork) is your friend. You need to determine what defenses he has. Does he have a nanohive with nantidotes? How well armored is he? Is he protected against magic? Does it have to be someone else killing, or can you do it up close and personal?
Example. If his toxin protection is low, I like to use capsule ammunition with DMSO (avail 3), Zero (avail 2R), and the payload. KE IV (AR 84) is a major preference as it's completely legal (avail 8). Each bullet is going to cost you 23¥. (30 for box of 10 capsules, 10 per dose of DMSO, 10 per dose of KE IV). Acid damage is particularly nasty as it attacks for a number of turns equal to its rating - in this case, 8 turns. btw, you can coat a knife blade, or make a slap patch.
But if his toxin resistance is high this might not kill him. So armor, magic, catching him with Black Hammer, ...
Research. Legwork. Treat it exactly as you should treat an assassination run. Then choose the tool that fits.
-
I'm only going to grab one of your subjects:
Why do you really want to kill this PC? Is it the PC or is it the player? If you kill the PC, is the player just going to recreate him?
no no no, you miss understand. In this case i'm the player wanting to kill an NPC. :P
this time around.
I could easily see your concern if it was the DM wanting to kill a character. xD I usually like to keep my Player's Character's alive. Death is often just not that fun. xD
Aaaah. In that case, research (legwork) is your friend. You need to determine what defenses he has. Does he have a nanohive with nantidotes? How well armored is he? Is he protected against magic? Does it have to be someone else killing, or can you do it up close and personal?
Example. If his toxin protection is low, I like to use capsule ammunition with DMSO (avail 3), Zero (avail 2R), and the payload. KE IV (AR 84) is a major preference as it's completely legal (avail 8). Each bullet is going to cost you 23¥. (30 for box of 10 capsules, 10 per dose of DMSO, 10 per dose of KE IV). Acid damage is particularly nasty as it attacks for a number of turns equal to its rating - in this case, 8 turns. btw, you can coat a knife blade, or make a slap patch.
But if his toxin resistance is high this might not kill him. So armor, magic, catching him with Black Hammer, ...
Research. Legwork. Treat it exactly as you should treat an assassination run. Then choose the tool that fits.
Well from what I know thus far, which is pretty much obvious is that he's a large troll, and last time we met had a hella good armor on. (he had somewhere near 30-40 soak dice.... <.<) I still managed to bust 4 damage unto him with my pistol however edged. If I had known about a called shot I would have also done that with my gunshot but I was a little preoccupied picking up my friend who he just jumped out a window with the large man after him.
The job had been an extraction of a dwarven lady protected by this guy. I would have shot him with 2 pistols all edged shots but i picked my buddy off the ground behind the "Mountain that Moves" and shot him while he tried running after my sister's character who was dragging the dwarven lady away. <.< needless to say we had a sniper shooting him and my pistol did alot more damage while it was edged.... xD lucky 6's!
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
If you're trying to take down a heavily armored Troll with a pistol, things are not likely to end well...except for the Troll.
The best way to deal with something like that is...have someone else do it. :o This could be your friendly neighborhood Mage, who can Stunbolt that puppy into next week (if you're lucky) or, even better - set his big, heavily armored behind up to take a fall.
While a 40-story drop could work, the kind of fall I mean is...do you have any other enemies? Do some legwork and find a way to get Big Bad Troll and your other enemies to think that the stuff you're doing is stuff that the people you don't like are doing, and let THEM worry about the Troll.
Then just sit back, record the brawl to watch later (with popcorn, in slow motion), wait until the smoke clears, and pick off any survivors.
Easy peasy. ;)
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
Just ask Kid Stealth!
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
Just ask Kid Stealth!
Something tells me 'Stealth' with high explosives don't really go together... xD
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
Just ask Kid Stealth!
Something tells me 'Stealth' with high explosives don't really go together... xD
Oh, no? :D
Allow me to introduce you to The Spirit of New York. (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/4034173902_fbbc9574b0.jpg)
;D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
If you're trying to take down a heavily armored Troll with a pistol, things are not likely to end well...except for the Troll.
The best way to deal with something like that is...have someone else do it. :o This could be your friendly neighborhood Mage, who can Stunbolt that puppy into next week (if you're lucky) or, even better - set his big, heavily armored behind up to take a fall.
While a 40-story drop could work, the kind of fall I mean is...do you have any other enemies? Do some legwork and find a way to get Big Bad Troll and your other enemies to think that the stuff you're doing is stuff that the people you don't like are doing, and let THEM worry about the Troll.
Then just sit back, record the brawl to watch later (with popcorn, in slow motion), wait until the smoke clears, and pick off any survivors.
Easy peasy. ;)
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
Now that I think about it there was that one lady that killed another of my team. xD Wouldn't mind killing her either, she turned out to be a mage. Totally thought "Dark Necrosis" was going to be a man. <.<
-
There are few problems that can't be solved by the liberal application of high explosives. ;D
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
Just ask Kid Stealth!
Something tells me 'Stealth' with high explosives don't really go together... xD
Oh, no? :D
Allow me to introduce you to The Spirit of New York. (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/4034173902_fbbc9574b0.jpg)
;D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
wow.... nice.
Stealth BOMBER xD
Totally forgot about that. XD