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DNI & cyberlimbs

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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #15 on: <05-22-16/2200:29> »
Good luck proving that opinion with RAW, Marcus.

Implanted Commlink gives DNI. No further stipulations are given by RAW. QED.

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #16 on: <05-22-16/2215:17> »
Good luck proving that opinion with RAW, Marcus.

Implanted Commlink gives DNI. No further stipulations are given by RAW. QED.
Very true... But I believe that stems (at least partially) from the fact that they listed Cyber Skulls with the rest of the Cyber Limbs. And while they may have thought that people would see "Headware" and assume that means it needs to go in your head... they didn't count on the munchkin community to try and install the things in their feet.
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Blue Rose

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« Reply #17 on: <05-22-16/2231:22> »
Because installing your smartphone in your arm is something only a munchkin would do.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #18 on: <05-23-16/0800:25> »
Good luck proving that opinion with RAW, Marcus.

Implanted Commlink gives DNI. No further stipulations are given by RAW. QED.
Very true... But I believe that stems (at least partially) from the fact that they listed Cyber Skulls with the rest of the Cyber Limbs. And while they may have thought that people would see "Headware" and assume that means it needs to go in your head... they didn't count on the munchkin community to try and install the things in their feet.
You can install a cybereye in a hand; you can use an ocular drone to provide vision from outside your body. Where does it say by RAW that anything that has capacity has to go in a specific piece of equipment that has capacity?

Again, that's your opinion, not RAW. To be fair, I'm totally arguing from a Devil's Advocate position here, but by RAW the only requirement to get DNI from an implanted commlink is by purchasing the ware and installing it for either the capacity or essence cost. That's it. It's up to the table to decide if the commlink has to be in the skull, but from the purposes of a RAW discussion the book is as vague (or clear, depending on point of view) as ever.

Hobbes

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« Reply #19 on: <05-23-16/0801:16> »
Good luck proving that opinion with RAW, Marcus.

Implanted Commlink gives DNI. No further stipulations are given by RAW. QED.

P. 451 Implanted Commlink description

"Commlink: The implanted version of the commlink
(p. 438) comes with a sim module at no additional cost.
An integral headware commlink is popular with corporate operatives, company men, and sararimen on the
go. Generally speaking, commlinks with a Device Rating of less than 5 are not installed inside your skull, for
security reasons"

No explicit mention of DNI, so it's a fair interpretation by a GM to rule an implanted Commlink doesn't give DNI.  This is a RAW vs RAI over 70 Nuyen. 

Carry on Gentlemen!   :)

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #20 on: <05-23-16/0922:12> »
No go, Hobbes. As usual, you have to wildly cross-reference RAW.

Quote from: SR5 page 222
A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and taste your AR experience.

Note that the only stipulation is that the commlink be implanted; it does not specify implanted and paid for by essence, only that it is implanted which also covers ware paid for with capacity.
« Last Edit: <05-23-16/0924:08> by Herr Brackhaus »

SichoPhiend

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« Reply #21 on: <05-23-16/1258:19> »
And if after reading about an implanted Commlink you become curious about what a Sim module does and follow the page reference listed for the Headware Commlink you find this

Quote from: SR5 page 438
A sim module must be accessed via a direct neural interface (trodes, datajack, or implanted commlink).

As this is a direct reference to the Sim Module that automatically comes with every implanted commlink, it is clear that RAW does indeed grant DNI to implanted Commlinks.

As for the placement in limbs, we have

Quote from: SR5 page 452, First paragraph under HARDWARE, second sentence
Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity rather than Essence.

I know that no one is suggesting that Commlinks can't be placed in an arm or leg, but the use of "cyberlimbs" plural, with no other qualifier, suggests that the items operate the same regardless of what type of limb the item is placed in.

That being said, I can certainly see house rules requiring something like a datajack to make use of one in a cyberarm.
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AwesomenessDog

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« Reply #22 on: <05-24-16/0038:58> »
Herr Brackhaus is right unless you are going to go out of your way to argue that you need wiring to every point of sensory input (or a place higher on the brainstem so the real signals can be overridden by a SIM module) in which case you are changing much more than commlink functionality when implanted.

For those of you who want to push this RAI and who really don't understand what DNI is, it just means you think something that triggers a neural pathway leading to a converter that changes the neural input to an electrical input on a wire then into whatever device you are talking about. Since this commlink also comes with a sim rig, if you have some sort of "eye AR", DNI isn't even necessary anymore because the computer in your eye starts communicating with the device (commlink) instead of you having to learn a thought pattern to start a call or w/e; this is done either through wiring if you're cybered enough to have wires from A to B, wireless if you want to defeat the purpose, or by simply hijacking a reflex pathway in the meat-in-the-middle between the device's location and, in this case, the eye and attaching the same DNI system except you go from eye to electric input, to neural, back to electric, to commlink and vice versa. (Yeah, applied science.)  It also doesn't change anything in balance because the dude's commlink would likely just be off or silent if he didn't have it in his arm.

Three way yes for armlinks: RAW, Realism RAI, Balance RAI.