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Multiple Attacks

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spydertau

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« on: <11-21-10/2346:38> »
Can a character split his dice pool using 1 simple action to gain multiple attacks and then turn around and do it again with the next simple action?

FastJack

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Kot

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« Reply #2 on: <11-22-10/0303:58> »
But if those will be firearm attacks, he'll get a lot of nasty recoil. So, along with penalties for multiple actions you need a big pool to begin with (10+). Otherwise, without edge you're pretty useless twice...
Off course, when you try to both give covering fire and hack a keypad... Well, in some cases you don't really have a choice.
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Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #3 on: <11-22-10/0347:00> »
Depending on how many IP's you have, two guns and good recoil compensation can cut that down quite a bit and the Cherry Blossom Storm burst fires at only +1 RCL.

Chaemera

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« Reply #4 on: <11-22-10/0658:35> »
Can a character split his dice pool using 1 simple action to gain multiple attacks and then turn around and do it again with the next simple action?

From what I can find, the only points in combat where splitting your dice pool comes up is the section on "Attacker Using a Second Firearm" (SR4A, pg. 150) and "Multiple Targets" (SR4A, pg. 158) the later is specific to melee attacks. Spellcasting also allows for splitting your dice pool in the "Casting Multiple Spells" paragraph (SR4A, pg. 183).

If these are the only places it discusses splitting your dice pool, the RAW would only allow you to split your dice pool for one of those three circumstances (two-gun shooting with a single simple action, multiple targets in melee with a single complex action, and casting multiple spells with a single complex action). But, the way each section talks about splitting your dice pool, they sound like their referencing a general rule discussed elsewhere. I even have a vague memory of seeing said rule, but can't find it now.

Would someone who does remember where the general rules for splitting your dice pool are located be so kind as to provide a page reference?

Even if there isn't a general rule, I'd still allow it in most cases, though I don't know about for shooting a gun faster, that's what burst-fire and the rest are meant to handle. But, at that point, we're talking house rules anyways, so each table will make their own call.
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Bradd

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« Reply #5 on: <11-22-10/1525:53> »
The only general rule that I'm aware of is in the FAQ, and it contradicts the rulebooks on a few points, so it's not really useful.

Chaemera

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« Reply #6 on: <11-22-10/1645:30> »
sigh. I like splitting dice pools, oh well, I'm the GM in my games, so not an issue. Most any occasion where a person wants to do two things with one action, I'd let them.

Worth noting though, I explicitly consider "splitting your dice pool" to be taking two separate actions (casting two spells, firing two guns, punching a guy in melee and casting a spell). Under this interpretation, I wouldn't allow for shooting one gun twice in the same simple action. That's what Burst Fire and the like are for.

But, back to the OP, going by what Bradd's found, any use other than the three I mentioned earlier would, effectively, be a "house rule" (FAQ /= errata), since there is no general rule for splitting an action into two (or more) actions. So, ask your GM.
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Muspellsheimr

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« Reply #7 on: <11-22-10/1725:57> »
Rules as Written, you may split your dice pool when firing two Pistol or SMG-class weapons with a single action (SR4A), when attacking multiple targets in melee with a single weapon & action (SR4A), when casting multiple spells with a single action (SR4A), and when attacking with multiple melee weapons with a single action (Ars). I believe there was also an instance in hacking where you could split your dice pool, but cannot recall what/where.

In all instances, splitting your dice pool involves using a single action to take multiple actions of the same type. As far as I can remember, there is no overarching rule for this, although it is implied.

In all locations except casting multiple spells, it instructs you to divide your base Dice Pool, then apply modifiers (Positive & Negative) to each resulting pool separately. The FAQ instructs you to do this with casting multiple spells as well - something that was heavily implied but not actually stated in RAW. The disconnect between the FAQ & RAW comes in what is defined as a Dice Pool Modifier.

RAW specifically states that a dice pool consists of (Attribute) + (Skill) + (Modifiers), exceptions being attribute-only tests, which simply replace Skill with another attribute or remove it entirely, or some matrix tests, which substitute a program for an attribute. Thus, anything that does not directly increase the Attribute or Skill being used, but does increase the dice pool, is a dice pool modifier. Whereas the FAQ includes focus' & (I think) specialization as part of the base pool for some random reason.
« Last Edit: <11-22-10/1727:35> by Muspellsheimr »

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Chaemera

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« Reply #8 on: <11-22-10/1732:30> »
Yeah, the conversation on how to split your dice pool was had at length over here. And I'm sure it's been had elsewhere, too.

If you've got further questions on splitting your dice pool, OP, that might be a good place to start. Or get very confused. Possibly both.
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voydangel

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« Reply #9 on: <11-23-10/0038:03> »
Yea, I seem to recall seeing a RAW printing that said you could split dice for firing a pistol twice, thereby netting yourself the possibility of firing off 4 rounds with your 2 simple actions. Can't seem to find it now.

Maybe that was back in 2nd ed... ???
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FastJack

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« Reply #10 on: <11-23-10/0854:51> »
Quote from: SR4A, p. 150
Attacker Using Second Firearm
Characters can use two pistol- or SMG-class weapons, one in each hand, firing both with a single Simple Action. Doing so, however, requires that the character split his dice pool between the attacks. If two separate skills are being used (Pistols and Automatics), use the smallest dice pool. Split the pool before applying modifiers. Two-gun attacks also negate any dice pool bonuses from smartlinks or laser sights. Additionally, any uncompensated recoil modifiers applicable to one weapon also apply to the other weapon.

voydangel

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« Reply #11 on: <11-23-10/1407:42> »
Yes FJ, I know that rule, but wasn't there one back in 2nd that would allow that same thing with only 1 gun?
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FastJack

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« Reply #12 on: <11-23-10/1542:30> »
I'll have to break out the 2E books when I get back home, but I believe you are correct. I think it was that edition's version of the Multiple Target rule.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #13 on: <11-24-10/1243:55> »
Multiple targets simply added a target number modifier of +2 for each target past the first.  Using two guns increases the TN by +2, and smartlinks, laser sights, and the like can't be used.

There's nothing in the base SR2E book about using multiple weapons in melee (although it talks about having friends in melee giving penalties to the opposition).  A definate oversight.
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