Shadowrun
Off-topic => General Gaming => Topic started by: Reaver on <10-09-20/0756:32>
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The title says it all....
I had a choice, Squadrons, or BG3.... I choose BG3 because of my massive love of the franchise....
And after 11 hours of ripping out my hair, screaming at the monitor, and reciting EVERY curse I know in a dozen languages, I AM FUCKING DONE!
This is NOT an 'Early access' game. This is 'Test our broken, unbalanced, nonworking reskin if D:oS"
So many broken mechanics....
So many broken decisions.....
First attempt. Dead in 10 minutes against the VERY FIRST encounter.... a 95% hit chance means "you critically miss". EVERY TIME (I reloaded the save right before the battle 8 times, to the EXACT SAME RESULT. 3 critical misses in a row for him @ 95% hit chance, 3 critical hits for the imps. In EACH if the reloads.)
So.... THAT run ended poorly, even after save scumming 8 fucking times!!!
New character time! Get past the imps, easy peazy.... and get NUKED for 48 points of damage by a trap I CAN'T detect (not a class skill), and that's AFTER saving. I am lvl 1 and have 9 hp. 20 minutes total play time.
New character (AGAIN). Get past the imps, avoid the trap (which, I STILL can't detect!). Get to the shore, get into the FIRST crypt..... BOOOM!!! Standing in a fucking LAKE of Fire. 4 damage a turn if I stand, 4 damage a square if I move..... need to clear 4 squares to escape.... I have 12 HP.....
This is not a game.... this is DnD as run by an 8year old.....
or Duncan Fisher...
Mechaincs:
So... There is this thing called a "perception test".... (I'm sure you know of what I am talking about)... BG3 is not the first game to incluse a perception test mechainc of late. Pathfinder: King maker had one too. But, unlike the WORKING implementation of a perception test like Owlcat did.... Larian has decided it would be "cute" to include one too... in real time! So it doesn't fucking work!
For those that don't know, BG3 is a click and move system on a 3/4 perspective... you click a spot on the map and your character walk there.... (same as Kingmaker)... But unlike Kingmaker where the Perception check as automatic and PAUSED the game when you found something, BG3 does a little winky "eye" thing for 5 fucking seconds while you are STILL FUCKING MOVING!!! So you blunder right into the trap, setting it off, and then 2 seconds later, "I spotted something!!!"
Well, lets see.... I am smoldering corpse on the ground after that fire trap, so yep, I spotted something all right... WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO KNOW BEFORE IT BLEW MY FACE OFF!
I will say the game is very pretty... And has lots of shit on the screen at all times. Too bad that you can't tell what you can interact with, what you can examine, and what is valuable... There is a "highlight" key... but it works so fantastically well that you can be staring at the chest right in front of you, and it won't highlight it. And forget about things on desks... or even containers as they won't be highlighted AT ALL. Only dead bodies (and, IF you are lucky, maybe a container.)
BUT you do get to see all 398 EMPTY book shelves in the crypt with the Highlight key! (they are ALL empty- But it only tells you this after you "open" the book shelf.)
Character models. I have seen these characters before... In Dragon Age. It is the EXACT same character models used... Just with a better paint job. No real customization other then "choose which of our 8 faces you like" and what one of our 12 hairstyles do you want? Can't change body type. height, weight. BUT, you do have 256 colors for your hair!
6 basic classes.. no real customization of stats, skills, or even equipment. (you WILL use this crappy pregen equipment AND LIKE IT MISTER!)...
The trading system is... well... fucked. I have never played a game that the DEFAULT is you just "give away" items to vendors... For free....
*After you are finished SINGLE clicking out every single item you want to sell into the barter window, you then have to go into the Vendor's inventory and remove the EXACT about of gold for your trade... if you don't, NO MONEY FOR YOUS!!! Yep..you just gave that vendor everything for free.... And there is NO tool tip or tutorial to tell you this! I had to find out the HARD way after I lost 1200 GP worth of items... Items and money that at lvl 2 (yes TWO) I really needed!!!
The Autosave system is borked to all hell... Can't count the number of times I would get a nice pop up that says "Autosave complete".. then have some random mechanic cause a bomb to go off killing me.. And the earliest "Autosave" on file is from an hour ago... even though 2 fucking minutes earlier it said "Autosave complete"... (My fucking ass!!!)
Apparently, at level two, according to the devs, it is perfectly fine for a party of 4 characters to run into 8 goblins (all lvl 2 and with more HP then a max CON Dwarf Fighter!!!), all armed with FIRE BOMBS that coat an 8 hex area in flames for 3 turns... And they ALL throw them on turn 1 with an 80% accuracy! (So there is NOT a turn 2...)
Oh, Did I mention that this is a "single player or Co-op play" game.. that DOES NOT have a pause function? Anywhere! After about 7 hours of pulling out my hair, it was Miller Time. I press ESC, open the main menu, go into the save game screen, and then take a walk up stairs for a beer and a smoke... come back to a dead party!!! NO idea how or why.. but there they were dead. Not since combat is "Supposed" to be turn based.... so the only thing I can think of is.. the characters continued to walk while I was in the save game screen, hit a trap and died... Which gives me SOOOO much faith in the save system!!! I can just see it now... Forever locked into an exploding reload as the save system saves the game the instant to step on the trap as your characters have been moving when you were trying to save...
11 Hours in... I have seen the first 80 minutes of the game ONLY....
maybe give this one a go AFTER its out of early access... Next year. (because from what I am seeing, they have at least 8 months of hardcore work to make this passable)
(and for those that don't get the Duncan Fisher reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9MIosS9JsE&t=53s )
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I personally think early access for shooters or survival games and similar is cool, but I wouldn't touch an early access RPG for any reason. Bound to disappoint. I'll pick it up after first patch at standard release.
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Sounds like they brought Catalyst on to develop this game...
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Reaver
I had the same issue with continue missing imps and some of the other things you mentioned. I must have lucked by and missed the trap.
Regards,
SL
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Sounds like they brought Catalyst on to develop this game...
I think the issue here is that they had a team that has NEVER played DnD, develop a DnD game....
I say this because I have followed the Dev reports since June, and even back then they were saying "its a long game that will only take you to level 10....
At which point I was like "Huh? LONG, and ONLY level 10?".... And now I know why. Apparently in the Dev's eyes. GOBLINS that cast spells, have alchemical traps and arrows AND TWO CLASS LEVELS are worth.... 10xp.
(Did I mention they ALSO have more HP then a MAX CON dwarf Fighter??? Cause they do...)
Oh, and traps for a level 1 character to 60 points of damage..... cause THAT's a first level trap....
No, this is a case of a dev team not using the abundance of source and rules material available, and just copy-porting their unique combat and environmental combat engine from another game into the license.....
This is NOT Baldur's Gate 3. Its Divinity 3....Which is NOT a DnD game nor a DnD system.
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Sounds like they brought Catalyst on to develop this game...
Thanks. I can feel the love. No, really. I can. Right in my chest.
...
No, wait, that's heartburn, never mind.
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This is NOT Baldur's Gate 3. Its Divinity 3....Which is NOT a DnD game nor a DnD system.
That's sad, I loved BG 1 & 2.
True classics.
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Are the first traps you are talking about in the room with the imps, on the Illithid ship at the start of the game? If so, there's a few things to watch out for:
- The purple jars you see scattered about are extremely combustive; melee attacks, and certain spells like fire bolt (but not sacred flame, oddly enough) will set them off. I started using those top help clear out the imps, by letting them get close to some and then detonating them.
- Many, MANY things on that ship are explosive or otherwise damaging; the game gives you a bare hint of this with the "tadpole" vat right at the very start. Off the top of my head, I remember accidentally hitting one of the sacs hanging from the ceiling that was directly above an imp, rather than the imp itself, due to the camera angle. Because of that, I spread a highly caustic liquid all over my character and the area she was moving through.
Trying to get a wizard through that starting area's final fight area was a lesson in extreme masochism; I ended up having to just dash the entire way through, ignoring the imps, to get to the transponder before the two additional Cambions showed up. :-\
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I was aware if the jars everyehere.
No, the trap (it it is a trap... as even a fucking thief character WITH perception can't find it). Is in the 2nd room, up top next to a chest that doesn't show up with the ALT key.
You have to get to it by jumping.
The first time i jumped to it, walked 1 step BOOM! 45 damage. Game over.
Avoided it entirely the second time.
Third time I got the chest no issues.
4th time BOOM!! 61 damage....... (12hp character).
No warning. No perception test. Just fire, damage, game over.
So... is there a trap? You tell me as the fucking game won't ;(
Another gripe......
A fighter at lvl1 and the SAME fighter at lvl 3, with the SAME weapon has the EXACT SAME bab (+5)....... WTF????
A CLERIC at lvl1 has a Bab of +5. The SAME cleric using the SAME weapon as at lvl 1, but at lvl3 has a Bab of..... +7!!!!!!
The more I play, the more I drink, the more I spot the piss poor work of this "Timeless DnD reimagining".....
Bull fucking shit!!!
They just wanted a name they knew would pull in suckers like me. They had ZERO intention of making a "DnD forgotten Realms" game.....
They made Divinty 3. They just called it Baldur's Gate.... to get cash IMO. (And it worked. They got my cash which they wouldn't of otherwise)
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They made Divinty 3. They just called it Baldur's Gate.... to get cash IMO.
Now you know how I feel about srun 6e.
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They made Divinty 3. They just called it Baldur's Gate.... to get cash IMO.
Now you know how I feel about srun 6e.
Lol checkmate.
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They made Divinty 3. They just called it Baldur's Gate.... to get cash IMO.
Now you know how I feel about srun 6e.
Lol checkmate.
Brutal.
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So, I drank a flat of beer yesterday...
Woke up this morning, and while having a whiskey with my corn flakes... thought...
"Naa, you are being overly critical of this game... give it another go.... what's the worst that can happen??"
***News flash!!! THAT should have been the warning right there.... But, I'm a moron....****
The Devs what people to play evil?? FINE.
One Drow Loth priestess with a soul as black as my mood coming up!!!!
Make the character with the limited resources they give me... not a great character, but not bad... no negatives anywhere.... fair bonuses to Wisdom for bonus spells, Strength for bonus hit chance and damage. a little Con for a bit of HP.... should be OK...
Look over the character...
BAB +5
Damage 1d6+2 (mace)
AC 15.
Two spells.
9 HP
wait.... what? That should be 2 BONUS spells right? 16 Wisdom is 2 bonus spells right???(actually 3!)... Nope TWO spells.
OK.. maybe that's just from the start and it will correct when I rest....
Anyways..... Lets move on...
meet the Evil Green Bitch. Go to fight the 3 imps....
"Never tried these alchemists pots yet... lets see.... target the one way in the back, at the max throwing range...."
BOOMM!!
BADDA BOOM!!!
BOOM BOOM BOOOM!!!!
yea... the alchmists fire pot hits the imp.. 1 damage. set off some hidden thing next to the imp, he takes 1 damage again... THAT explosion sets off 3 OTHER things..
and MY CHARACTER takes 47 damage. dead.
I have mentioned that this is the FIRST fight in the Tutorial level before, right???
Reload a save.
"Ok, fire pots not a good idea.. have to run in and hit them with my mace as I don't have ranged weapon"
So I spend a turn moving and get to attack the first imp.... I hit!! Doing ONE (1) damage...
"Um 1 damage?" *checks character sheet.... DAMAGE !d6+2 (mace)...
WTF?
Imp swings at me, CRITICAL HIT! 4 damage... <and in the back of my head alarm bells are going off....>
I swing at the imp HIT! 1 damage!
WTF??!?!?
Imp swings at me, HIT! I take 3 damage... I now have 2 hp left.. and look at my options.. I have 2 healing pots that do 2d4+2 HP in healing. and a spell that does 1d4+3 healing...
I drink the pot, HEALED 3 HP!
WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?
I swing at the imp, HIT, 1 damage....
The Imps swings at me! HIT! I take 4 damage! I now have 1 fucking HP left.. There are still TWO other imps fighting the Evil Green Chick, and SHE is almost dead!
(Have I mentioned this is the FIRST fight in the tutorial??)
I drink my LAST pot... Healed 2 HP!
WHAT IN THE FUCKING HELLS IS GOING THE FUCK ON!!!
I swing at the Imp CRITICAL HIT! I do 2 damage.
The Imp swings at me, MISS! (THANK FUCKING GOD!)
I swing at the Imp, HIT! I do 2 damage. Imp dies.
The good news. I'm ALIVE!!! The Evil Green Chick is alive AND managed to kill off the other two imps with 1 hp left over...
There is a "healing station" in this room, so I recover all my lost HP... and continue on... (I SHOULD have just fucking quit right there)
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so some time later I get to the bridge.. and its an other 3 imp fight, followed by 3 more imps... IF you are fast... OR 3 imps, then 3 imps, then 2 cambians and a pit fiend if you are slow.. (YES .... PIT FIEND.. you are lvl 1.)
The idea is to get to the control panel as fast as possible.... (Remember THIS is the tutorial level, right???)
So the Imps win imitative.
Imp Throws Firebolt at me... CRITICAL HIT! 20 Damage! (remember I have 9 hp... Oh and the tool tip for firebolt? 1d6 damage)
Dead...
Reload
Imps win initiative.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HITS 4 damage.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HIT 4 damage...
Imp throws a Fire Bolt at me. Hits. 4 damage.
Dead...
RELOAD
Imps win initiative.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HITS 4 damage.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HIT 4 damage...
Imp throws a Fire Bolt at me. CRITICAL HIT. 14 damage.
Dead...
RE-FUCKING-LOAD
Imps win initiative.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HITS 4 damage.
Imp throws a Fire bolt at me. HIT 4 damage...
Imp throws a Fire Bolt at me. hits... 8 damage (on a motherfucking d6!!!)
Dead...
MOTHERFUCKING RELOAD
I win initiative. *stunned in shock!!*
OK... what to do... based on the last 30 fucking minutes... IF I don't kill at least ONE imp, I am just dead.. AGAIN...
So I spend some time moving the cursor around the screen seeing exactly is in the room and where, Even use the Highlight ALT key to triple check...
OK... if I throw a Pot at the back Imp, that will set off 2 containers near him, and should kill him between the hit, the fire and the explosion... And I can move Evil Green Chick up and attack the other one... yea. that should work...
Throw the pot... BOOOM! BADDA BOOOM BOOM BOOM!!!
The pot goes off... the 2 containers near the imp remain intact. 3 HIDDEN containers, go off, setting off a giant chain reaction... I take 64 damage. Evil Green Chick takes 42 damage.. The Imp I hit takes... 1 damage... the other 2 imps take... ZERO damage.
DEAD.
RELOAD <FUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!>
I win the fucking initative...
I fucking just run forward... end my turn . Evil green bitch, I move towards the 3 imps...
The imps, for once. ignore me! ALL attack Evil green Bitch... ALL hit... she's dead.
I manage to run past the pit fiend... 3 imps chasing me from behind, 3 imps in front... FML.
AMAZINGLY, (given how every thing has gone in this fucking shit show of a game) 4 imps miss me!!!
2 do land hits... and reduce me to 4 HP...
I make it the controller.. and complete the tutorial... learning ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING OF FUCKING IMPORTANCE OF THE MECHANICS OF THE FUCKING GAME OTHER THEN THAT EVERYTHING IT TELLS YOU IS A FUCKING LIE!
And I'm on the beach and into the game for real...
I know there is a box by the side of the road from my LAST 8 TIMES here... and know it always contains a healing pot... and considering I still only have 4 hp... I click on the box.
My character starts to move towards the box, stops moving.. a "4" appears above his head.. and DIES...
WTF!?!?!?
keep in mind, 8 other play throughs this has NEVER happened.... NEVER...
There is a SINGLE square of branbles near the box.. A. SINGLE. SQUARE...
The game, with its excellent pathfinder, MOVED ME ONTO THE SINGLE SQUARE WITH AN ENVROMMENTAL EFFECT... That Effect... 4 damage (NOT D4... just FUCKING 4!!!) and a chance to be held for d3 turns... (taking 4 FUCKING DAMAGE A TURN!))
SWOOSH!!! CRASH!!! SMASH!!!
as my $175 gaming logitech mouse goes THROUGH the $800 plate glass window, smashes to a million pieces on the tree...
lets recap...
What could go wrong?
Well, I could play this broken fucking piece of shit game, lose my temper, throw my mouse through a window and put me out Grand. THAT is what could and DID go wrong!!!
I know we got some programmers here, And I also know they DON'T work for Larian...
But...
FUCKING EXPLAIN TO ME RIGHT FUCKING NOW HOW SOMETHING THIS FUCKED UP GETS OUT THE FUCKING DOOR.... NOTHING IN THIS SHITSHOW OF FUCKING SOFTWARE DOES WHAT IT SAYS IT FUCKING DOES!!!!
you tell me the damage I do... but that is fucking wrong.
you say stats affect your abilites... yet THAT is fucking wrong
you tell what damage or healing effects do... AND THAT IS FUCKING WRONG!!!
the ONLY fucking that works in this electron soup is the pretty pretty cut scenes.... which tells me EXACTLY WHERE YOU SPENT ALL YOUR FUCKING EFFORT.... cause it wasn't in the mechanics.. I can tell you that...
That the ABSOLUTE fucking irony here?? ALL THE hard work was done for them....
Character class.
Character abilties.
Came mechanics.
Combat mechanics.
Class Abilites.
Health
healing
environmental effects and conditions...
ALL OF IT was doe for them. All they had to do was open a fucking book, READ what was there, and put it into the machine...
But they just couldn't be bothered.
IF a developer or programmer had asked me today what I though of his product.... You wouldn't find enough of him left to bury in a shoe box.
And I would have done it with my bare hands.. and enjoyed every minute of his torturous end...
$1080 fucking WASTED.
But I know what I am doing Sunday.... (installing a new window!)
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So BG3 is 5e so, they are right on no bonus spells.
So the attack bonus sounds odd. You should be Prof +2, Str +2= +4.
But you should have Cantrips. Toll of the Dead or Sacred Flame.
And the spell healing word
But yeah all that rest sounds totally terrible.
If your familiar with 5e DMG, you should start characters at 3rd. Before that your not really your class yet.
So imps have 10 hp, with invisibility, and damage resistance vs anything not silver. So Melee needs to do 20 damage to kill one. Spell wise they are immune to fire and resistant to cold, so I'd say your best bet is warlock up, and Eldritch blast them down. While your fighter distracts them and takes the dodge action. A Cleric with toll the dead with Healing word is actually a good option, but i'm its still pretty crazy.
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Let that be a lesson to you all, folks. Never drink flat beer. Chase it down with some good beer instead!
And drink beer instead of play that game.
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So BG3 is 5e so, they are right on no bonus spells.
So the attack bonus sounds odd. You should be Prof +2, Str +2= +4.
But you should have Cantrips. Toll of the Dead or Sacred Flame.
And the spell healing word
But yeah all that rest sounds totally terrible.
If your familiar with 5e DMG, you should start characters at 3rd. Before that your not really your class yet.
So imps have 10 hp, with invisibility, and damage resistance vs anything not silver. So Melee needs to do 20 damage to kill one. Spell wise they are immune to fire and resistant to cold, so I'd say your best bet is warlock up, and Eldritch blast them down. While your fighter distracts them and takes the dodge action. A Cleric with toll the dead with Healing word is actually a good option, but i'm its still pretty crazy.
OK, So I don't play 5e... 4e killed DnD for me as I was SO disgusted with 4e, I SWORE I would never buy an other DnD product again. And I have not...
But if everything you said is true... then that just goes to show you just how fucking FUCKED they made this game.....
On the other hand, Prepping the window frame for the new window took my mind off of just how epically BAD the fuckwit shit weasel developers have fucked up....
Worse then I thought... and considering at this moment if the Devs rand down the street on fire, I would get marshmellows, should tell you just how epcially they fucked up in my opinion...
Probably will end up doing an HARD pass on anything Larian touches in the future...
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Just look at this as a good lesson opportunity for why early access (another term for not finished) should generally be avoided. The divinity line was excellent, so it's likely to be solid when it is actually ready as opposed to fake ready.
As far as the numbers you listed, some of that makes sense (imps will take 1/2 damage from non-silver weapons, so 1d6+2 becoming 1 is certainly possible), others don't.
I personally don't like DnD 5e. It is an excellent system for beginners, but isn't nearly dynamic enough for folks that like going deep with characters building. I much prefer Pathfinder 1st.
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I hope the mouse/window thing is hyperbolic flair for your story, if not ouch that's expensive.
And yes in many ways they get the rules wrong and for no apparent reason. Like they reduced the range of pretty much every spell, firebolt should have a range of 120' and do 1D10, here its 60' and does 1d6. This is especially stupid as other damaging cantrips come with riders of some kind. Like chill touch one of my favorites does 1d8 range 60' but people hit by it can't heal for the next round making it a great anti regen spell.
The hex spell on the warlock has a duration of 1 hour at level spells it can get up to all day as a level 5 spell, it just ends once combat is over.
Some things I get like the wood elfs hide in nature ability(can't remember its name) if basically allows the elf to hide in natural terrain with less obscurement than is usually necessary. That would be hard to program so they just give the elf the stealth skill for free. As an aside the whole you need cover/concealment rules to hide in D&D I've always thought were dumb, its like they act like no one has ever snuck up behind them before. Just make a general statement the DM may determine that stealth is impossible in some situations.
While these are imps, I think they are fake imps as 2 1st level characters have no business fighting a pack of them. And the cambions showing up in that one fight is just retarded, hey the die rolls fucked you for 4 rounds straight at level 1, you die.
They give a nice big die roll animation for out of combat tests I want one for in combat. Because I don't think they are using a d20 for that. I've had it say you have a 95% chance to hit. There is no reason I'd have advantage, I'm +5 to hit from my proficiency bonus and attribute so unless their AC is 6 or 7 that makes no sense. In fact I think they may have ditched the while adv/disadvantage mechanic and just applied flat bonuses and penalties. And the die rolls seem broken, I've critically fumbled 3 times in a row way too many times for it to seem a legit random die roll.
I got it pretty much so I could play the into before it got spoiled so often I was unable to avoid it. So I'm not disappointed as I think a lot of this will shake out in development. My issue or worry is too many Larion fanboys are playing it and not enough D&D players. The forums are just packed with people who give excuses for everything. But the entire point of the early access is for them to receive feedback, so they can correct. As an aside they apparently are starting with the evil NPCs joining your party in early access as they felt those would need the most feedback to get to work.
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For the frustrated souls that want to play a DnD 5e game on PC, there is Solasta (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1096530/Solasta_Crown_of_the_Magister/) coming which incidentally has a nice demo before you have to jump into early access.
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I want a Starfinder group so bad.
Mainly because trying to find a WEG Star Wars D6 game is next to impossible.
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I feel like the critique is a bit harsh. Larian Studios was completely up front about the fact that the early access game was not a finished product, and that there would be glitches. The early access is, for all intents and purposes, a beta test, and the studio has been pretty on top of fixing glitches as they become aware of them. Which is a lot more than can be said about a lot of game studios (*cough* CDPR *cough*)
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Hey as long as the finished product has Bard of the Blade College and Fey Warlock I am good.