[SunRunner]

F means there is not legal way for a private citizen to own it, AAA Corp Sec forces on said corps property ARE the Army. What is and is not F changes by Corp and Local jurisdiction when not on AAA corp property. So Yes KE guys can run around with all kinds of F rated gear with no problems. My point is economics. Blight is super specialized, it does nothing to anyone/anything that is not awakened, its literally just colored water to normal people. Its also 605 nuyen per 10 rounds or 60.5 nuyen per round vs 8 nuyen per round for SnS. Multiply that times all KE officers in the city and it comes out to ALOT of nuyen. Alot of Nuyen that is not justified when the reality is the SnS will take down pretty much anything the blight will. Its also more versatile as its effective against normal foes as well. Also the reality is of the couple thousand beat cops in the Seattle metroplex most of them probably go their ENTIRE careers from rookie to pensioned retirement without ever facing a spirit in a live fire situation, I am willing to bet they get some basic training when a KE mage summons up a spirit or two for them during training. Now HTR teams, the boys in D.P.I branch having blight makes all kinds of sense.

Its also worth noting that Blight is a Toxin, Anything with Toxin immunity which is moderately common will either just shrug it off or be highly resistant to it requiring a lot of rounds to put down anyways. Its also in a little bit of a grey area rules wise since its clearly a Toxin that causes a drain roll, I would be inclined to say that a mage with chem protection mods on his armor getting hit by Blight would get his chem protection mod bonus to his Drain roll. Its also worth noting they will do nothing to some one with a full chem seal.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Its also worth noting that Blight is a Toxin, Anything with Toxin immunity which is moderately common will either just shrug it off or be highly resistant to it requiring a lot of rounds to put down anyways. Its also in a little bit of a grey area rules wise since its clearly a Toxin that causes a drain roll, I would be inclined to say that a mage with chem protection mods on his armor getting hit by Blight would get his chem protection mod bonus to his Drain roll. Its also worth noting they will do nothing to some one with a full chem seal.

These are great points, but spirits aren't likely to benefit from any of these factors.  Blight toxin is an unparalleled spirit neutralizer.

But again, they're exactly the kinds of things that CorpSec might employ for their own Mages/paracritters since the toxin is on the streets and runners are feasibly going to be armed with it. You could even couple a biomonitor with an autoinjector loaded with anti-toxin to get bonus dice before the resistance roll comes around.

[RiggerBob]

[...] but in Seattle, F is a illegal for everyone. Security forces may use it hoping they won't get caught by someone with the authority to hold them accountable for it.

F is illegal for any private citizen. So KE will not be allowed F gear in Seattle because it maybe R-rated under Ares laws but can actually get licenses for Seattle when contracted to work there.

Edit: Nice, forum didn't show me the last few posts. So that answer's already given...

Moving on to:

My point is economics. Blight is super specialized, it does nothing to anyone/anything that is not awakened, its literally just colored water to normal people. Its also 605 nuyen per 10 rounds or 60.5 nuyen per round vs 8 nuyen per round for SnS. Multiply that times all KE officers in the city and it comes out to ALOT of nuyen.

Speaking of economics... It's not like you need to spend money for every officer or the rounds need to be replaced all the time. One clip of blight/dmso capsule rounds for every patrol car out there, that will get returned after each shift 99% of the time don't cost that much.

[Chalkarts]

My spirits will be pretty expendable.  They're pretty much just there to wake me up and help me escape.  I won't be doing much direct combat with them, just getting them to cover my escape.

[Cabral]

F means there is not legal way for a private citizen to own it, AAA Corp Sec forces on said corps property ARE the Army. What is and is not F changes by Corp and Local jurisdiction when not on AAA corp property. So Yes KE guys can run around with all kinds of F rated gear with no problems.

Again, yes and no.

First, we seem to be saying the same thing in terms of jurisdiction. However, there are really multiple levels of F that the game doesn't differentiate between for practical reasons. Yes, Ares can kit their guys out with mustard gas, but whether they're in the Barrens or the Desert Wars, it's still "illegal" (assuming the Geneva Accords are still in place), even if the accountability will be more focused on holding Ares accountable rather than the security guards. Additionally, even if your guard is KE on Ares turf, he probably should still stay away from Bliss, for example.

Second, security guards are not going to have the same leeway everywhere. When we talk about "security guards" in the abstract, it can be KE on an Ares site or the Red Samurai at Renraku, but it might also be Lone Star or Wolverine (bub).

Being part of a security team, or another government/megacorporate team, does not guarantee you access to F gear. It's going to be a GM call on a case by case basis.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

When you're playing Shadowrun you don't play Government/Corporate types.  You're playing a Shadowrunner.

Unless of course the GM is running a non-standard campaign, in which case all bets are already off anyway.

[SunRunner]

Yes gear legality is by Entity, It means the Azzies can let their guys have what ever they want while they are on the Azzie arcology in Seattle. When they leave the property they are off Azzie land and are now subject to The laws and Legality codes of say Down Town Seattle. However they will still be treated like a foreign power which means as long as they are not too crazy no ones looking. Its extraterritoriality, its like embassies today. The Russian embassy in Down town DC I GUARANTEE has guards with Full auto AK47s and RPK (that's the russian LMG). I will also bet money they have Grenade Launchers and RPGs on site. And guess what when the Russian Envoy is driving around, they may not flash them but I bet his security detail has AKs stashed under the seats. And if they pull them out it will all come down to why, if the Envoy was attacked by a credible threat that needed that level of response The US government will be to busy apologizing for why we let 30 guys with automatic weapons attack him on US soil to worry about prosecuting, becasue every member of the detail was shipped out back to Russia as soon as they were released by the police.

The reality is that KE and the UCAS have reciprocity agreements with all the AAA megas. It means they recognize and honor Ares/Azzie/Renraku etc. weapon permits and they in turn honor thiers. And they would have done full comparisons ahead of time by teams of experts on both sides and ironed out any discrepancies, like Azzie might allow blood mages, but the UCAS has a hard no on that, so Azzie Blood Mage permits are not honored. But that would be the exception not the rule.

[Cabral]

When you're playing Shadowrun you don't play Government/Corporate types.  You're playing a Shadowrunner.

Unless of course the GM is running a non-standard campaign, in which case all bets are already off anyway.

To my knowledge, no one is talking about playing government/corporate types; we are discussing the likelihood of security details being equipped with F legality gear to respond to threats posed by the players.

F legality gear will be GM's call on a case-by-case basis and has to take into account the security company's relation with the governing body, the company's own internal policies, and the nature of the item in question.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Unless of course you decide that Blight toxin should be standard issue for security guards.  Honestly, some Spirit-B-GON probably should be standard equipment now that it's on the market...

Remember when everyone's solution to enemy spirits was APDS?

And another reason why they need a 6e. Instead of fixing the core issue they have a half assed patch.

All hail the Grey Brothers and their contribution to Shadowrun moving away somewhat from Magicrun

[Michael Chandra]

My spirits will be pretty expendable.  They're pretty much just there to wake me up and help me escape.  I won't be doing much direct combat with them, just getting them to cover my escape.

Just keep in mind that if you throw them at hurtful situations deliberately you may start scoring Astral Index points.

[Chalkarts]

My spirits will be pretty expendable.  They're pretty much just there to wake me up and help me escape.  I won't be doing much direct combat with them, just getting them to cover my escape.

Just keep in mind that if you throw them at hurtful situations deliberately you may start scoring Astral Index points.

Yeah, he's not mean or willfully hurtful to them, they don't have to fight to the death or anything, just guard him until he wakes up, or wake him up if bad stuff happens and cover him for a minute.  He doesn't use them unless he absolutely needs to.

I'll try to keep their pain to a minimum just to keep them from turning on him.