Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Longshot23 on <10-15-10/0436:37>
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So has anyone got any theories as to what Juan Atzcapotzalco actually was?
I'm kind of thinking he was a Biomantic construct (like cybermancy, but . . . well, you know).
Or he was a corpse possessed by a 'Blood Shedim' - which could be scarier.
Cos what's to stop the Azzies from doing this again . . .
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Uhm... who?
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Mayve he was a :
1. Horror possesed
2. Immortal Theran sorcerer.
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Uhm... who?
Former president of Aztlan. It's been theorized he was possessed by a spirit, among other things.
I was always fond of the idea that he was possessed by the spirit of a Theran myself. I think the loci being bandied about in the Aztlan book were used by the Therans to "hold" their souls in the centuries between magic being in the world.
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With Aztlan and the shit they already set loose... anything's possible.
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Uhm... who?
Former president of Aztlan. It's been theorized he was possessed by a spirit, among other things.
I was always fond of the idea that he was possessed by the spirit of a Theran myself. I think the loci being bandied about in the Aztlan book were used by the Therans to "hold" their souls in the centuries between magic being in the world.
If that's the case, why did the Azzies finally write him off? Or was it just the vessel that was disposed of?
Some interesting stuff about it gets raised in 'The Annotated Aztlan Annotations' file at the Ancient Files site.
That about the Locus almost implies that the Therans assumed that magic would return.
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Uhm... who?
Former president of Aztlan. It's been theorized he was possessed by a spirit, among other things.
I was always fond of the idea that he was possessed by the spirit of a Theran myself. I think the loci being bandied about in the Aztlan book were used by the Therans to "hold" their souls in the centuries between magic being in the world.
If that's the case, why did the Azzies finally write him off? Or was it just the vessel that was disposed of?
Some interesting stuff about it gets raised in 'The Annotated Aztlan Annotations' file at the Ancient Files site.
That about the Locus almost implies that the Therans assumed that magic would return.
Nobody really knows. The big thing is he started to put himself above Aztechnology and, thus, became a threat to the corporation.
As for knowledge of magic cycles, remember that the dragons did know of the cycles and may have passed that information on to the Therans.
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So the current Shadowrun world behind the scenes power plays:
Theran refugees: Controls Aztlan/Aztechnology, world power plays.
Elves: The Elven nations, corporates, artifact hunting etc.
Dragons: Power games , mutually allied/antagonistic but just games towards a long term end.
Corporate court: Well the top AAA corps. Not really united as they have competing interests.
Bit players: Well everybody else.
On the sidelines: Big threat with the horrors just waiting in the Astral plane just waiting to get in en masse.
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Thats comparing apples to oranges. The megacorps surely have way more mundane control and power than the other three groups united, but then those three groups for the most part (with such luminous exceptions as Lofwyr) arent really about mundane power, but about mythical power. Its two different things most of the time.
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Oh yeah, in the Earthdawn era, the Therans is a world superpower. Actually they could stand up vs. teh Dragons, that's how powerful their magic is.
Only the Barsaivians and the Cathayans were able to defeat the Therans in a stand up battle.
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Frost,
Well the power group which has the best coordination and unity to get to its goals probably have the upper hand.
the Corporates probably have strong military, magical and economic forces but the problem is that they are not united. Very factionalized. Also the other power groups probably have their hands in the Corporate court just in case(especially teh Therans/Aztechnology) and to make sure the Corporate court does not go too far.
Same for the dragons, probably the strongest magical force but very disunited and stuck playing their age old games.
Therans: Probably the best united and most coordinated but the problem is that they have some very powerful enemies who would unite when it rears its ugly head(like in Caracas and Yucatan recently). A lot of people hate their guts too, they made too many enemies.
So in my opinion the Therans are trying to defeat its most powerful threats as fast as possible to get the upper hand.
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Don't forget the newest power on the block: The AIs. They may be "young" compared to all the others, but their realm of influence is something the others don't really understand and no one knows what may come of it.
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They did send their stone Behemoths after a few dragons (a Behemoth is a fortress converted for flying, think Citadel from Dragonlance). They killed Icewing's mate (Icewing = Ghostwalker) and then he got pissed and wasted one of them (the only time Thera ever lost a Behemoth). After the assasinations of two dozen key figures in Thera, all of whom profited from the assault on the dragons, Thera decided to back off. The dragons and Thera had an uneasy truce after that.
The dragons would give a Theran dying of thirst a glass of seawater, just for the chuckles. They certainly wouldn't give them knowledge of the mana cycles. The Therans figured that one out themselves, and produced the Rites of Protection and Passage to hold over the rest of the world in order to gain tribute from, and lordship over, the nations of the world. The dragons didn't like it, which was the cause of the aforementioned hostility.
It's highly doubtful that Aztlan has remnants of the Therans, given Aztlan's past history with the Horrors which Thera actively worked hard to overcome. Thera was a nation of jackasses, but they knew a bad thing when they saw it. The Atlantean Foundation is much closer to being in line with ancient Thera than Aztlan.
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Yeah, I was about to say, I cant really think of many things in SR linking back to Thera. The only immortals from last magic cycle I can think of are the Immortal Elves and the Dragons, and they already hate each other plenty enough. The Atlantean Foundation, too, is led by an IE from the 4th World.
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My rememberance of Earthdawn is a bit fuzzy, but wasn't Earthroot/Root Protector the one that figured out about the Mana cycles and shared the information with all, even the Therans?
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Gun nut,
Actually there is actually some mention in the Theran sourcebook that the Therans actually experiment with horrors. They also worship DIS and mad passion. So I would not put it pass by them to use horror for their own advantage.
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Fastjack,
I'm not sure if its Earthroot but it was the Dragons who orginally shared info on building Kaers with the name givers.
In Cathay, where the relationship between namegivers and Dragons are very different(Dragons are considered almost gods), the population was protected by their Dragons in kaers. However Cathay was still devastated by the Horrors.
This is preety much mirrored in Shadowrun where East and Southeast Asia are dragon playgrounds(Lung, Ryumyo and Masaru).
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A note on the dangers of using horrors.
If you read the Theran sourcebook the Maraccans(Arabs) through their control of Djinns control horrors in a bloody guerilla war vs. the Therans.
So Horrors could actually be used as weapons by namegivers(kinda like putting a tuxedo on a nuke bomb and calling it a spy).
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Re: Why the Azzies wrote off Juan - don't forget, Dunkelzahn left a mysterious gift for Juan Atzcapotzalco in his will, a box that he had to open. He apparently went to the Draco Foundation, opened it, then left with no apparent effect.
If they did have some hold on him, something tells me that Dunkelzahn freed him.
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Yeah, but that bequest was in 2057. ~14 years later the Azzies let him get killed, apparently.
I'm trying to get this right cos it may be related/relevant to a min-campaign idea of mine.
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Gun nut,
Actually there is actually some mention in the Theran sourcebook that the Therans actually experiment with horrors. They also worship DIS and mad passion. So I would not put it pass by them to use horror for their own advantage.
Yeah, but like you said in a later post, it's the Maraccans that are using Horrors against the Therans in a desperate attempt to kick them out.
The Therans always worshipped Dis (known as Erendis before the Scourge), but they don't acknowledge that the Passion went mad. They are in a kind of denial regarding the Passion (they acknowledge that Raggok and Vestrial are mad, but not Dis).
The Horrors would actually hate for Dis to be worshipped and followed more widely. Dis sucks out the passion for anything in life, including the emotions that the Horrors crave. Now that I say it out loud, the Therans might be using Dis in a manner similar to the way the Blood Elves used the Ritual of Thorns: as a means of starving out the Horrors.
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Actually the Heavenherds are very interested in how the Djinns control horrors. So I do not put it above the Therans to try to control the horrors.
Also in relation to Equinox and pages 155-156 of the Theran sourcebook. The horrors in Earthdawn were bulding a beacon to stop the magic cycle in a certain stage similiar to what the Therans are trying to do. So looks like the humanity succeeded in building a beacon and thought they outsmarted the horrors.
Another conspiracy theory to throw your way, what if the Catholic church is actually controlled by Dragons, There is a dragon called Moleskin which lives under what is the Vatican or Rome in Earthdawn and is preaching the one true passion the Prima. Look it up in the Talea part of the theran sourcebook.
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Yeah, but that bequest was in 2057. ~14 years later the Azzies let him get killed, apparently.
It was during the Yucatan peace conference about 6 years later, and they managed to frame a dragon shareholder to eliminate him at the same time. Two birds with one stone.
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Actually the Heavenherds are very interested in how the Djinns control horrors. So I do not put it above the Therans to try to control the horrors.
Also in relation to Equinox and pages 155-156 of the Theran sourcebook. The horrors in Earthdawn were bulding a beacon to stop the magic cycle in a certain stage similiar to what the Therans are trying to do. So looks like the humanity succeeded in building a beacon and thought they outsmarted the horrors.
Another conspiracy theory to throw your way, what if the Catholic church is actually controlled by Dragons, There is a dragon called Moleskin which lives under what is the Vatican or Rome in Earthdawn and is preaching the one true passion the Prima. Look it up in the Talea part of the theran sourcebook.
In fact, there os more questions concerning Catholics... Wasn`t it was a Christian (Catholic) order (St. Felix order) that knows the right rite to denny the Shedim to take controll of the dead bodies? (sb: Year of the Commet, if I do remember exactly...)
Where this knowledge came from?