[zhayman]

Here's a character I put together for our table.  Infiltration based human with a focus in archery and gymnastics.  Keep in mind our table usually steers away from the matrix and therefore have avoided many skills you might expect an infiltration expert to have e.g. hardware, computer, etc.  Thoughts and advice is welcome!

Additional Info
Gamemaster House-rules and Setting

• We've completely thrown social test out the window in favor or role-playing based social interactions.  Thus the lack of social skills and charisma.  We merely wish to test the waters of this new way to handle social interactions.
• We're doing a spin on the awakened aspect of the world, where magic is a more recent discovery and you aren't going to get manabolted to the face every corner you turn
• There are no Deckers, riggers, matrix-esque characters on our team therefore we've left most of the matrix rules out.

== Info ==
Street Name: Ambush
Name: Alex Walker
Movement: 14/28
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human Male Age 29
Height 5'9" Weight 165
Composure: 2
Judge Intentions: 7
Lift/Carry: 10 (105 kg/70 kg)
Memory: 8
Nuyen:

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: E - Mundane
Skills: C - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: A - 450,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 5 (7)
REA: 4 (6)
STR: 5 (7)
CHA: 1
INT: 6
LOG: 3 (5)
WIL: 1
EDG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   3.6
Initiative:                12 + 3d6
Rigger Initiative:         12 + 3d6
Astral Initiative:         
Matrix AR Initiative:      12 + 3d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    6 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     6 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         9

== Limits ==
Physical:                  8
Mental:                    7
Social:                    3
Astral:                    7

== Active Skills ==
Archery                    : 6 [Bow]                Pool: 14 (16)
Disguise*                 : 2                         Pool: 8
First Aid                   : 3 [Lacerations]    Pool: 10 (12)
Gymnastics             : 5 [Parkour]          Pool: 14 (16)
Palming*                 : 2                         Pool: 9
Perception              : 4 [Visual]             Pool: 10 (12)
Running                  : 1 [Urban]             Pool: 10 (12)
Sneaking*               : 6 [Urban]             Pool: 14 (16)
Tracking                  : 2 [Urban]             Pool: 8 (10)

*Using a house rule that allows breaking of skill groups during creation and assigning points individually.

== Contacts ==
Marcus Wells (2, 1) (Armorer)

== Qualities ==
Acrobatic Defender
Allergy (Uncommon, Mild) (NSAIDs)
Insomnia (Basic)
Natural Athlete
Weak Immune System

== Lifestyles ==
Paradise Lofts  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Muscle Augmentation Rating 2
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Reflex Recorder (Skill) (Archery)
Reflex Recorder (Skill) (Sneaking)
Synaptic Booster Rating 2

== Armor ==

Securetech PPP: Arms Kit            1
Securetech PPP: Legs Kit            1
Securetech PPP: Vitals Kit          1
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit             9
   +Thermal Damping 4
   +Biomonitor
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit: Helmet     2
   +Transys Avalon

== Weapons ==
Bow (Rating 6)
   Pool: 14 (16)   Accuracy: 6   DV: 8P   AP: -1   RC: 3
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0   Accuracy: 3   DV: 7S   AP: -2   RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 6   Accuracy: 8   DV: 7S   AP: -   RC: 3

== Martial Arts ==
Kyujutsu
   +Close Quarter Firearms (Archery)
   +Knucklebreaker (Blast Out of Hand)

== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)

== Gear ==
Arrow: Barbed Head (Bows) Rating 6 x6
Arrow: Incendiary Head (Bows) Rating 6 x4
Arrow: Stick-n-Shock (Bows) Rating 6 x4
Certified Credstick, Platinum Rating 1
Contacts Rating 3
   +Flare Compensation
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 2
Earbuds Rating 3
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Fake License (Projectile License) Rating 4
Fake License (Private Investigator License) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Deacon Black) Rating 4
Grapple Gun
   +Standard Rope (100m)
   +Rapelling Gloves
Medkit Rating 6

[8-bit]

You seem to have absolutely no need for high Logic, and especially not Cerebral Boosters. Meanwhile, you have 0 Social skills, and a Charisma of 1. Not only does this kind of go against the idea of an infiltrator, in my mind (you need to be able to blend in with your surroundings, which might mean pretending to be a corporate drone), you will automatically fail every Social check. Willpower 1 is also extremely dangerous. There are a great many important checks that use Willpower, plus you are going to have a weak Stun Condition monitor, plus things like Manipulation and Direct spells will be very difficult for you to defend against.

I would shift a point out of Strength, a point out of Intuition, and a point out of Logic to get Willpower 3 and Charisma 2.

Bows are very noticeable and conspicuous. Sure, they aren't Restricted, but someone carrying a bow will not blend into normal society. Anyway, you need Etiquette, and possibly Con. Locksmith is also a fairly vital skill for an Infiltration specialist. Tracking is niche, and First Aid can be handled by a wireless medkit in 90% of situations. I would also probably lower the amount of points put into Gymnastics, you don't need that many.

An Armorer as your only contact is a bad idea. You need a Fixer. Not only can they get you whatever you need, they will also spread your name in the Shadowrunning world and get you jobs. And they need at least a 3 Connection.

Catlike, First Impression? Blandness? Bilingual? All of those would be fantastic Qualities for an Infiltration expert.

I'm honestly not sure why you went A Resources. There's not much that you bought that requires it.

Cerebral Boosters and Reflex Recorders can go. As I said before, higher Logic is not really helping you, and the Reflex Recorders add a measly one die. I would convert the Muscle Augmentation and Toner to Alphaware Muscle Replacement. Pick up a Datajack (DNI is super useful), and possibly some tricked out Cybereyes. An Internal Air Tank can come in handy, if necessary. You probably can't afford it Essence-wise to convert Synaptic Boosters to Wired Reflexes, but if you can fit it in, that will save you a lot of money. Tailored Pheromones may also be appealing, as well as Platelet Factories and Damage Compensators. Fluff-wise, Sleep Regulator is nice, as well.

If you wanted, you could go Used Wired Reflexes 2, Alphaware Muscle Replacement 2, Alphaware Datajack, and Standard Grade Rating 3-4 Cybereyes. That would fit within your Essence budget and save you a ton of money.

Kyujutsu seems to be costing you a lot of Karma and not giving you much in return.

Don't know what Paradise Lofts is. High Lifestyle? I would look at some of the High Fashion Armor in Run & Gun, if you wanted some really good Infiltration pieces. Urban Explorer Jumpsuit is not exactly typical corporate-environment wear. 12 Arrows is a very limited supply of Ammunition (especially only 4 of each type). You want at least 10 of each type, but you really can never have too much Ammunition. No B&E (Breaking and Entering) gear? How are you planning to Infiltrate, other than sneaking around the place. I would also recommend a Chameleon Suit or Sleeping Tiger for some better sneaking.

Also, no Image Link or any way to interact with the Matrix at all? It doesn't really matter if your game doesn't involve hackers, communication through commlinks and texts is still a big thing, and a huge advantage for runners. Especially the ability to share AROs. I mean, if your entire team is deadset about being offline (in which case, it's fine to not have Image Link or anything else Matrix-related, as you are running offline), then that's a choice, but the Matrix is usually a huge benefit to runners.

Honestly, I think you would be greatly benefited by being an Elf. It's free Charisma and slightly more Agility, at the cost of Edge. Simply spend 10 Karma to get Edge 2, and you should be fine.

Obviously, you can choose to keep some things, if they fit the concept you had in mind better, but these are my suggestions upon first glance.

[Lucean]

If you don't like Muscle Replacements you could go with used 'ware for Toner and Augmentation, as you're currently very comfortably with Essence. Since you can't get Synaptic Boosters as used 'ware, you could go with Used Wired Reflexes II, which could allow you to maintain your +2d6 initiative dice as well as the +2AGI and +2 STR.
I second the thought to skip the other augmentations. You shouldn't need them at chargen.

Do you need to shoot things out of hands? Shooting with Stick'n-Shock would do Stun damage and can knock them out, which should provide the better result. Speaking of Stick'n-Shock you should combine those with Static Shafts to increase their power.

[zhayman]

I sincerely apologize for not including this is the main post from the start.  I should have mentioned our gamemaster's setting and house rules. 

• We've completely thrown social test out the window in favor or role-playing based social interactions.  Thus the lack of social skills and charisma.  We merely wish to test the waters of this new way to handle social interactions.
• We're doing a spin on the awakened aspect of the world, where magic is a more recent discovery and you aren't going to get manabolted to the face every corner you turn.

With that said.  You've made great points about where I could improve my character, but as some of it is unnecessary in our setting I've excluded them.  Completely my fault; I should have included that extra info when I posted.  I think the issue lies with my shadowrunning team.  We've been doing it a certain way for years now.  Not necessarily the wrong way, but different for sure.  There are just certain aspects of the game that no one wanted to be a part of which ultimately led to us just leaving it out entirely, like the matrix.  When I referred to my character as a scout/infiltrator I meant it in a more traditional way, again relating to the setting.  We see a lot more warehouses, open parking lots, etc then we do corporate interiors.  Therefore I felt my character did not require what you'd normally expect in an "infiltrator" e.g. etiquette, con, disguise, etc. 

I might rework my resources and implants with the advice you've given me.  I think a I got a little caught up in the idea of being a bioware purist.  Hence the lack of cyberware.  Believe it or not that was by choice   The addition of 'first aid" and "cerebral booster" were both for flavor.  Though I could do without the booster.   

Kyjutsu was a last second addition and you're right when you say it doesn't seem to offer much.  Will probably cut that and find a better place to spend that karma.

Paradise Lofts was what I named my apartment.  Its middle level and the name was just for cheesy-ness

[ZeldaBravo]

I don't even know what to say. Aren't you supposed to roleplay your character? I mean, willpower is not just the resistances and stunboxes, it is a character's power of will. It is okay to forego matrix and magic parts of the game, but stats are more than just numbers.

[Sterling]

• We've completely thrown social test out the window in favor or role-playing based social interactions.  Thus the lack of social skills and charisma.  We merely wish to test the waters of this new way to handle social interactions.
• We're doing a spin on the awakened aspect of the world, where magic is a more recent discovery and you aren't going to get manabolted to the face every corner you turn.

I'm honestly stunned here.  How can you say you've decided to favour role-playing social interactions and then use this as a reason for giving your character a CHA and WIL of 1?  If you give a character these stats and then don't roleplay them what exactly are you basing your social interactions on?

I'm not going to comment further on a "character" like this.

[zhayman]

Well okay then I suppose I'll just be on my way then. I realized I made a mistake when I posted my character without including our gamemaster's setting and house-rules.  And yet even after admitting my mistake I still get ridiculed.  Lovely group you got here.  Before forgetting about this topic entirely and going about my business I'd like to make a few final points.

• I apologize for any "newbie" mistakes I may have made when posting this topic.  After all I am a newb to this forum and I'm glad I was met with such "hospitality".
• I realize our table may not reflect yours, or anything you could even begin to fathom for that matter, but that does not make it wrong.  Yes, we choose to play shadowrun a little differently, that does not imply I have no understanding of the game.  I've played many times over the past few years and at times we've used every rule,mechanic, function the game has to offer.  After awhile we decided what we liked and what we disliked.
• To clarify the role-playing social interactions bit, since there appears to be some confusion there.  We use player to gm interaction and dialogue to determine a social interaction and its results.  No dice rolls necessary.  Yes it seems odd and perhaps a bit whacky.  I never said it was perfect.  It's simply something we've been experimenting with.
• Yes I've dumped CHA and WIL.  This was by design.  Given the many changes we've made to our own little sliver of shadowrun we've ended up with a version that allows brand new characters to start with small but strong repertoire of skills.  Most of them fitting into two categories: Combat and technical.  Is that weird?  Well yeah, its very weird, but that's just how we are doing things.
• In the future I'll think long and hard before I post a character.  Keeping in mind that what I post may look like an abomination to the rest of you and will not be well received.

Thank you for your time.

[DigitalZombie]

Dont know if you will read this or not.
But as stated the bow is very noticeable. Its fine as a primary weapon, but you should look into a hand-crossbow or the like  as your side arm. It has a lousy damage but an be loaded with various toxins to help bring down the opposing force.

I also believe you could upgrade your bow with a smartgun, this naturally requires smartlink

[ZeldaBravo]

Well, this subforum is called "Character creation and critique" for a reason. It is quite unlikely that a character with willpower 1 will ever have guts to break the law. Not impossible but unlikely. And it will be even harder to play it accordingly.
I can suggest your group to completely remove CHA and related rules and skills from the game entirely, don't even mention it anywhere.

[Lucean]

Well, the problem is here with the system you use not reflecting the character and instead using the player to determine outcome.
We have a player that is really good at rhetorics. Than we have others that are less good at this. In your game the former could put a 1 in CHA and WIL and behave like having 6 in each, while the others would maybe reach a 3 or 4 while having 5s.
Yes, it was a mean assumption on the part of the other posters, but one that I can understand. You deliberately put the values for CHA and WIL with only stating that you roleplay it. But you didn't say anything about wanting to roleplay the value of 1 for both. So instead of getting bitter you could reflect a bit on the way you presented your character.

[Whiskeyjack]

That's a house rule that kind of unfairly penalizes people who are awkward in real life but want to play smooth criminals. YMMV of course but that's the point of the social rolls, to not hold players to the smoothness standards of their characters. Which is not to say there should be no RP at all either.

You may as well remove CHA as a stat that exists instead of putting 1 in it, unless you're a shaman.

[zhayman]

Well, this subforum is called "Character creation and critique" for a reason. It is quite unlikely that a character with willpower 1 will ever have guts to break the law. Not impossible but unlikely. And it will be even harder to play it accordingly.
I can suggest your group to completely remove CHA and related rules and skills from the game entirely, don't even mention it anywhere.

I know, and I should have been more prepared for the critiquing coming my way.  I've just been playing a certain way for so long that when I posted this guy it didn't occur to me just how badly put together he is for a standard SR table.  I do appreciate the feedback and has even given me some ideas where I could improve my character.

As far as the social interactions go...I suppose I could have just left CHA out entirely since we've essentially removed it from our game.  The people I play with are all relatively on par with one another socially and therefore not a single one of us is getting the short end of the stick even if they are playing with a CHA of 4 or 5.  Though CHA has mostly been removed even with awakened characters.  They've chosen WIL + INT tradtions or created their own.  I've actually been tweaking my character and gave him WIL, suppose I never really thought of it as more than just resistances and stunboxes. 

The bow...yeah I really should pick up a secondary combat skill.  Like I mentioned before our setting is primarily the streets of seattle, remote warehouses, etc and therefore I can usually haul my bow around with no issues.

You guys can go ahead and disregard this topic.  After all the more I look at this character the more I realize just how far off base our shadowrun group has become over the years.  I do appreciate the feedback you have given me and a lot of it has change my outlook on what makes a good shadowrunner.  Might even have to talk the GM into bringing back social interactions because I don't know how well our new system is working.  Like I said we're merely testing it to see if it's viable.

[Spooky]

What I  do at my table is have players tell me what their character is doing in a social scene, and let/encourage them to speak as their character as much as they are comfortable with, before rolling dice. This allows for varying levels of irl social skill, and seems to be the most fun for all. Ymmv, of course, though from what has been already said, you might use this as a new method of play. Just a suggestion.

[zhayman]

What I  do at my table is have players tell me what their character is doing in a social scene, and let/encourage them to speak as their character as much as they are comfortable with, before rolling dice. This allows for varying levels of irl social skill, and seems to be the most fun for all. Ymmv, of course, though from what has been already said, you might use this as a new method of play. Just a suggestion.

That sounds a lot like how we used to do it and it was a lot of fun.  We'd start a social interaction about the same way and use IRL dialogue until a dice roll was needed.  Usually to determine if we've earned more sensitive information or not.  More recently we've lost a few of our runners and have a smaller group now.  Typically 3-4 runners and a GM.  As no one wanted to take up the role of Face, we eventually dropped CHA/Social test and started using our new method.  This allowed for everyone to play whatever creation they come up with and not try to squeeze social skills in their repertoire.

[All4BigGuns]

I'm honestly stunned here.  How can you say you've decided to favour role-playing social interactions and then use this as a reason for giving your character a CHA and WIL of 1?  If you give a character these stats and then don't roleplay them what exactly are you basing your social interactions on?

This is exactly the end result of full "play it out" with regard to social encounters. If the skills aren't used, then it discourages taking them and the attributes tied to them.