[LonePaladin]

I seem to be running into a bit of a contradiction on the character-creation rules, specifically how Knowledge skills are handled.

Relevant quotes first.

Your character starts with a number of Knowledge skill points equal to (Logic + Intuition) x 3.
[snip]
...your character can specialize in Knowledge skills. Specializing in a Knowledge skill costs 1 Knowledge Skill Point (or 2BP).

Knowledge Skills: 2 BP per Skill Point, start with (Intuition + Logic) x 3 for free
[snip]
Specializations: 1 BP per Knowledge specialization

So, which is it?

[Walks Through Walls]

The second quote from page 97 is the correct costs.

I think what they were trying to say with the top part was that a specialization costs just as much as another level in the knowledge skill when figuring the number of free knowledge skill points you get. Otherwise you might have people arguing that specializations are fewer points so you should get two specializations for one skill point.

[LonePaladin]

Problem is, it's a point that can be argued, because it's right there on the page you just cited. And specializations ARE given a lower cost, on that page.

The sample characters use the first example, where specializations count as a full skill level, but the chart on p. 97 directly contradicts this -- it doesn't specify that specializations bought with free skill points count as one of these levels.

There's also the contradiction between the two pages; p. 87 has the "(or 2BP)", while p. 97 says 1. So the question still remains: do Knowledge skill specializations cost 1 Build Point, or 2? If it's the former, then the "two specializations" idea you mentioned would be a perfectly valid argument. If it's the latter, than the summary page needs a touch of errata.

[FastJack]

Okay, first the rules:

Your character starts with a number of Knowledge skill points equal to (Logic + Intuition) x 3. You may also purchase additional Knowledge skill points at a rate of 2 BP per point. The maximum number of Knowledge skill points you may purchase is also equal to your (Logic + Intuition) x 3. In other words, you can only increase your total Knowledge skill points up to double your starting amount. Note that Language skills are also purchased from this pool of Knowledge skill points.

So, you get (LOG + INT) x 3 Skill points for Knowledge skills. These are at a 1:1 ratio (1 Skill Point raise the Skill by 1).

To back this up, we look at the example:

     Michelle’s street witch has her Intuition and Logic attributes at Rating 4, so she gets (4 + 4) x 3, or 24 free Knowledge skill points. Ancient Egyptian heka rituals have always fascinated Michelle, so she takes “Ancient Egyptian Magic” as an Academic Knowledge skill at Rating 5. She figures her character is familiar with many talismongers around Seattle, so she takes “Seattle Talismongers” as a Rating 4 Street Knowledge skill.
     As a survivor of the streets, Michelle knows who’s top dog, as reflected by Seattle Street Gangs 4, Seattle Safehouses 4, and Seattle Syndicates 3, also Street Knowledge skills. Lastly, to round out her street witch, Michelle gives her character an Interests Knowledge skill: Ancient Mythologies 4. This uses up the last of Michelle’s free Knowledge skill points, so she’s done.
     Brian’s specialist has an Intuition of 5 and a Logic of 2, so he gets (5 + 2) x 3, or 21 free Knowledge skill points. Since a weapons specialist ought to know where to get guns, Brian first chooses North American Arms Dealers as a Street Knowledge skill at Rating 4. Similarly, Brian allocates 4 Knowledge skill points to Arms Manufacturers and 4 points to UCAS Military, both Professional Knowledge skills. Brian also takes Global Conflicts 3 as an Interests Knowledge skill, as well as Military History 3 as an Academic Knowledge skill. With only 3 free points left, Brian decides to invest them into German, a Language skill.

Adding up the example for Michelle's character, we see the following:

Ancient Egyptian Magic	5
Seattle Talismongers	4
Seattle Street Gangs	4
Seattle Safehouses	4
Seattle Syndicates	3
Ancient Mythologies	4
Total	24

Then Brian's character has the following:

North American Arms Dealers	4
Arms Manufacturers	4
UCAS Military	4
Global Conflicts	3
Military History	3
German	3
Total	21

The Build Points are for when you want to buy skills outside the free points you get.

[LonePaladin]

I'm with you on that part of it, FJ; even the sample characters use this. The part I'm trying to clear up is just the specialization rules, 'cause the book has two different figures for it. The build examples you quoted don't show that part of the process, but the example characters clearly use the "specialization = 1 skill point" method.

Page 85 states that a specialization costs 1 skill point, or 2 Build Points, but the table on page 97 says 1 Build Point.

[FastJack]

Ah, I see what you mean now.

Looking at the old SR4 rulebook (p. 76), it stated there that Knowledge Specializations cost a flat 1 BP. I think (this is my opinion, we'll have to see if one of the 'crew' weighs in), the SR4A rewrite of 1 Knowledge Skill point implies that it costs one point of your free Knowledge Skill Points to specialize, which is equivalent to 2 BP. If you don't use a free point, then it should only cost you 1 BP to specialize in a Knowledge skill.

[LonePaladin]

Here's a suggestion: Change the "free skill points" part to "free Build Points" and double the amount, then treat the resulting pool as if they're regular Build Points for buying Knowledge skills -- 2 BP per point, 1 BP per specialization.

[Medicineman]

the First ones are for Free (Ratio 1:1) If you want/need more you have to pay for them with 2 BP = 1 Pt
(I usually stick to the Free ones, I need my BP for other Things )

with a Dance for Free
Medicineman

[FastJack]

Here's a suggestion: Change the "free skill points" part to "free Build Points" and double the amount, then treat the resulting pool as if they're regular Build Points for buying Knowledge skills -- 2 BP per point, 1 BP per specialization.

That's actually a REALLY good idea for newbies.

[Walks Through Walls]

I think the reason they made it skill points and a skill or a specialization are 1 point is that they wanted to discourage specialization in knowledge skills at character creation. Remember it says a knowledge skill can be any non-active skill. So you could have a knowledge skill in gangs, Seattle based go-gangs, the Ancients, or gang turfs. All of these are legitimate knowledge skills. However, you could by the same token take Seattle gangs and specialize in Ancients and now you have two of the above mentioned for only 1 point more.