[FastJack]

Not for nothing Mike, but I don't care. Really, I haven't said anything good or bad about your writing. It's a non-issue with me. No one even brought it up before you did. This is not about your writing. It's about the stupid bloody plot which I know you did not create. That's all I'm bitching about, man.

There are those that like the plot, though. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it worthless.

(And I'm not saying I like/dislike the plot. I've been a Harlequin/Ehran/Frosty fanboy since the first book, so I'm partial to stories involving them.)

[Semerkhet]

Not for nothing Mike, but I don't care. Really, I haven't said anything good or bad about your writing. It's a non-issue with me. No one even brought it up before you did. This is not about your writing. It's about the stupid bloody plot which I know you did not create. That's all I'm bitching about, man.

There are those that like the plot, though. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it worthless.

(And I'm not saying I like/dislike the plot. I've been a Harlequin/Ehran/Frosty fanboy since the first book, so I'm partial to stories involving them.)

I agree in principle that reasonable people have reasonably differing opinions on the worth of a given plotline.  However I also think that there is no better place to complain about a plotline you do not like than on the forum for the game in question.

In this particular case I think AH is referring to the whole casus belli for the Amazon/Aztlan war and not about anything having to do with those wacky IEs.  

[FastJack]

And I agree with you too, Semerkhet. There is no better place to complain about a SR plotline than here. I just thought I'd point out that not everyone agrees with AH on this particular subject. Just so, you know, if they didn't agree with him they didn't feel they couldn't post a disagreement on the subject. I had noticed that there were a number of quick "I agree with AH" type of posts after his statement and hoped to make the atmosphere more likely to keep people from not joining in because they weren't agreeing with the group.

And, yes, I *do* know he wasn't talking about the Immortal Elves. I just felt like saying that.

[Ancient History]

I had noticed that there were a number of quick "I agree with AH" type of posts after his statement and hoped to make the atmosphere more likely to keep people from not joining in because they weren't agreeing with the group.

Que? What forum are you reading? Look at my post history. That does not happen. It has not happened. In this thread or any other. I posted once, Otakusensei posted once in agreement with my point, that was it. Mike Wich didn't even address my point at all, and neither did the two that followed it.

[Dead Monky]

*Starts pounding head on desk*  Please let this end soon.

[Kot]

I second that, Monky.
And i'll just note - a bit off topic - that a few people seem to be abusing the Rep system. I'm sure neither Ancient, nor FastJack didn't score that many negatives before War! came out.

[Mäx]

When did you became a global moderator FJ.

[Bull]

Think the money's bad for regular freelancing, try doing Missions and the other eBooks.  They pay a flat rate that's divorced from word count, and lets just say it almost always works out to be lower than the numbers Bobby posted.  We really, REALLY do not do this for the money.

Bull

[FastJack]

When did you became a global moderator FJ.

About two weeks ago to help out with the Spamming and such.

Que? What forum are you reading? Look at my post history. That does not happen. It has not happened. In this thread or any other. I posted once, Otakusensei posted once in agreement with my point, that was it. Mike Wich didn't even address my point at all, and neither did the two that followed it.

There weren't a lot of "I agree" after your post, I was going off agreements I tended to see in other posts (here and at Dumpshock) on other subjects as well. I apologize for jumping the gun here.

As I said before I'm trying to keep the atmosphere neutral here so people feel they can post no matter their opinions and not feel like they have to keep quiet if they disagree.

[Ancient History]

So...the fact that some people...people that may not even attend this forum or see this thread...may of their own free will agree with me somehow creates an unfair amount of social pressure that disenfranchises people that actually disagree with me to speak up? Your attempt at neutrality is to single me out on this thread in an obscure subforum to disagree with me just so people don't feel they're alone? I don't see you disagreeing with Critias or Crimsondude when they're pimping the products-yet-to-come. Are they somehow more neutral than I am?

The fuck man.

Tell you what, if you want to disagree with me, let me give you something to really disagree about.

The trees plot is stupid. That is not a matter of opinion. There is no rationalization in War! that in any way provides a believable reason for why this should be in any way a reason for Amazonia and Aztlan to go to war. Really, aside from the magical trees growing up out of nowhere, have you read the stats for these things? Between Year of the Comet and War! the trees have somehow gained the ability and desire to spew tree sap at things, and now contain a shitload of reagents. Not just a little, we're talking 15 reagents per tree. Screw Aztlan and Amazonia, I know runners in Seattle that would fly down to the border just to take a sapling home and feed it with homeless ork hobos. They wouldn't even care when the tree randomly jizzes sap on them. Sap which should be acidic, but whoever wrote the entry managed to leave out any sort of damage code. And, again: Amazonia hates people and loves trees. Also, Bogota is in the mountains. There is no jungle around Bogota. References to jungle around Bogota are retarded. p.87, The Real Urban Jungle, this is bullshit. Bogota's on the other side of the rain shield. No rain, no jungle. Nada.

[FastJack]

{sigh}

I'm out.

I was trying to keep it neutral because your fame precedes you. Heck, I love the stuff you've done for Shadowrun, especially Happy Trails. There's a lot of fans that take your opinions as something more than other fans. I only wanted to diffuse a possible situation and wound up creating one. So, my apologies, and I'll let it go on.

[Otakusensei]

Being unbiased is something this boards operators and conversations simply can not do.  Admins can try to steer the message to their own approximation of unbiased communication, but that's not the same thing.  The forum was setup and is owned and operated by CGL, the same people who currently make the game content we talk about here.  The same people who left War! in the state it was published in.  As Jason Hardy is a mod here, literally the same people in many cases.  Add to that that it is an open forum, with rules, that allows anyone (who isn't banned) from posting here; and I'm kind of surprised that anyone is trying to make things here appear neutral.

So chill out, guy-who-decided-to-name-his-account-after-a-well-loved-setting-character-rather-than-make-a-name-for-himself.  Admins can come in and try to steer the message, but that is disingenuous, and really just fulfills the same accusations people stated on Dumpshock prior to these forums going online.  Bobby has a compelling message.  Is he angry?  Yup.  Can he still be right?  Yup.  Is his opinion more important than anyone else's?  Well, do the testimonies of experts hold up better in court than the guy off the street?

Edited: to take out some of the vitriol.  Thanks you for posting Guy-who-calls-himself-Fastjack.

[FastJack]

And, thank you for making a personal attack. I'm not going to do anything besides lock this thread (which I created in the first place, and is a power than anyone that creates a thread has with the thread they created).

Like the other thread, I'll reopen it when I feel things have cooled down.

[Cain]

I'm just now reading War, and I have to say, I agree with AH.  The plotline seems contrived, to say the least; and the number of grammatical and typographic errors really makes it look like it's not worth the money.  Maybe there are surprises deeper into the book, but the quick scan isn't promising.  Do you think that the dgold in this book is deeply hidden, and if so, should it be that way? 

[Doc Chaos]

Well, after working through WAR! with my co-GM, we reached the conclusion that if you have military training and experience, you probably won't have any fun with this book.