[JustADude]

Any character that is currently in the suppressed area (but not behind cover or prone), or who moves into or out of the area before the shooter’s next Action Phase, risks catching some flying lead. That character must make a Reaction + Edge Test (+ Dodge if on full defense) with a threshold equal to the hits scored by the suppressing attacker. If the test fails, the character is hit, suffering damage at the weapon’s base Damage Value. Characters in the suppressed area who do not move, remain behind full cover, or simply drop prone are not at risk.

So yes, when you start suppressing, anyone who is in the area, and not behind cover or prone catches lead. After that, anyone who moves into or through the area before it stops being suppressed catches lead.

Put that way, I can see your point.

However, sometime you just want to keep the zone covered so people stay prone while you throw grenades at them or your buddies pick them off with aimed bursts. Assuming everyone is prone or covered after the first IP, the WR3 guy, or more realistically WR2 guy, still has to expend more ammo than the normal guy to keep them there, without the benefit of any extra "free" hits after everyone GTFOs.

[Mirikon]

See, you're wasting ammo doing that for a full turn. You want a better use of tactics? Ready an action to suppress after your buddies throw grenades. Anyone standing in the area catches lead. Anyone who tries to get away from the grenade, or throw it back, or whatever, catches lead. Grenades go off at the start of the person who threw the grenade's next action. While the area is still suppressed.

Other good use of tactics? Have someone with a grenade launcher and an airburst link delay until after you suppress the area. Two short bursts of grenades, detonating in that area, on that pass.

So it isn't that your tactics were bad, its just that there are better tactics out there, that also conserve ammo better.

[JustADude]

See, you're wasting ammo doing that for a full turn. You want a better use of tactics? Ready an action to suppress after your buddies throw grenades. Anyone standing in the area catches lead. Anyone who tries to get away from the grenade, or throw it back, or whatever, catches lead. Grenades go off at the start of the person who threw the grenade's next action. While the area is still suppressed.

Other good use of tactics? Have someone with a grenade launcher and an airburst link delay until after you suppress the area. Two short bursts of grenades, detonating in that area, on that pass.

So it isn't that your tactics were bad, its just that there are better tactics out there, that also conserve ammo better.

Oh, I'm not arguing that there are better tactics, in the system. I'm saying that the math of how it works out makes no sense to me:

Normal Guy = Suppressing for 3 seconds with an Ares Alpha = 20 ammo = 400 rounds per minute.
Wired 3 Guy= Suppressing for 3 seconds with an Ares Alpha = 80 ammo = 1600 rounds per minute.

You see what I'm getting at?

[Sichr]

+1 to both of you.
One point is, that recoil compensation should not be used for supressive fire. Why? Supressive fire is more than 50% of fire used in common combat situations (I remeber much greater number, well just to say it is a majority). Every character should be able, with proper skill, to use the weapon to supress the area. well.. Common soldier with Agility 4 and Firearms 4 and smartgun has 10 dices. If he uses WhiteKnight, which is the most compensated weapon from tables, he gets 6 points of recoil compensation
That leaves him with -13 dicepool...effectively with -3 dices to roll...and I dont thing smartgun makes too much use in situation like this, well, RAW it is supposed to matter. This would be silly.
So using Recoil compensation modifiers is silly.

On the other side...Supressive fire should not be for 1IP, but for 1 CT, because saying thay your r3 wired reflexes increase fire rate of your gun 4 times is magic, not firearms technology.

Also, If there is a sentence that says, that character may use only 1IP/ CT to supress, it would also work well, because that would mean that the character is fast enought to spray bullets to supressed area and then make another move, using 20 rounds and effectively supressing the area for whole CT.
Still, in case he use his weapon for another burst...even single shot, it would increase rate of fire beyond the common sense point.

But
If character has 4IPs and uses each of them to fire long full auto burst - 10 rounds, he also fires 40 rounds...thats twice more than character with 1IP just hulding the trigges and spraying the area with fire at maximum rate of fire of his weapon.

Thats why the rule is broken, well every attempt to correct it would amost certainly fail from some POV...so we better live with it, that it cannot be fixed without changing rules for initiative passes etc...mostly everything connected to it

BTW the same logic.
Can you imagine the mage who needs to say a tongue-twister to cast a spell in one complex action
now
can you imagine how he sounds when he has +3 IP due to increased reflexes.
FastForward

[Tsuzua]

The whole suppressive fire uses more bullets the more IPs you have is an odd bug in the suppressive fire and IP rules.  Personally I would go with "Suppressive fire lasts for the rest of the combat turn and uses 20 rounds.  Suppressive fire can be ended prematurely by the user using the weapon for another task or otherwise incapable of continuing suppressive fire."  Thus the 4 IP street samurai can continue suppressive fire at the same rate as the 1 IP guy, but he has the option of calling for help, dodging, or even hacking on his off IPs.  He can also end the suppressive fire by deciding to burst fire a guy instead.  It's a tad GM arbitary, but I don't think there's a good way to write formal definitions for this case in SR.  SR also is a system that's okay with GM rulings as well.

All of this doesn't make suppressive fire good by any means.  Even a HMG does only 7P -3 AP suppressive fire a phase and that's not enough to worry people are any sort of threat.  I guess a rich man could use suppressive fire capsule rounds to hit a whole bunch of people with X flavor of drug.  Then he'll just have to survive the rest of the turn before the whole room falls over.

[Mirikon]

Yes, this is one of those times where, in order to simplify bookkeeping and in game math, things might not make complete sense. Is there a disconnect between some of the way things work in the game, and how things work IRL? Of course. Those disconnects are usually in there to increase playability, because who really wants to calculate rounds per minute at the table, or other such minutiae?

[JustADude]

All of this doesn't make suppressive fire good by any means.  Even a HMG does only 7P -3 AP suppressive fire a phase and that's not enough to worry people are any sort of threat.  I guess a rich man could use suppressive fire capsule rounds to hit a whole bunch of people with X flavor of drug.  Then he'll just have to survive the rest of the turn before the whole room falls over.

Or, talking about rich, you use a FA modded grenade launcher, like the ITS Gonryu (belt fed) or an Armtech MGL-18 (23 rnds w/ Extended Clip) to Suppressive Fire twenty grenades into a 10m wide circle, since the rules say a length of the shooter's choosing, that's 10m wide at its end.

Flashbangs = 6 + ((19 * 6)/2) = 63S, assuming they all Air-Burst and, assuming the worst possible roll on 2d6, the shooter gets at least 2 net hits.

Ouch.

[Mirikon]

Bah! You want the REALLY rich way to do suppressive fire? Two words: Thor. Shots.

[JustADude]

Bah! You want the REALLY rich way to do suppressive fire? Two words: Thor. Shots.

 

But Aesir satellites aren't Full Auto, so they can't Suppress.

[Mirikon]

No one said you couldn't apply weapon mods to satellite weapons.

[Ronin]

This might have got a little off topic with Aesir satellites modified for full auto Thor shots but the idea resembles an evil genius' plan Anyhow:

A WR2 street sam with 3IP can have the same effect with suppressing fire as a 1IP rent-a-cop.  Actions can be delayed, even into other IPs.  Therefore the sam could use a complex action in the first IP and then delay his next action until the first IP of the following CT.  With a 1CT maximum for this house rule, it makes sense;  A street sam with WR cannot make his gun fire any faster and would still have to stand spraying lead for the same amount of time as the rent-a-cop.  This allows chars with more than 1IP to suppress for a whole turn using only 20 rounds without turning their wired reflexes off and back on again. The rule is flawed but with a little use of other rules you can make it work 

[Sichr]

The whole suppressive fire uses more bullets the more IPs you have is an odd bug in the suppressive fire and IP rules.  Personally I would go with "Suppressive fire lasts for the rest of the combat turn and uses 20 rounds.  Suppressive fire can be ended prematurely by the user using the weapon for another task or otherwise incapable of continuing suppressive fire."  Thus the 4 IP street samurai can continue suppressive fire at the same rate as the 1 IP guy, but he has the option of calling for help, dodging, or even hacking on his off IPs.  He can also end the suppressive fire by deciding to burst fire a guy instead.  It's a tad GM arbitary, but I don't think there's a good way to write formal definitions for this case in SR.  SR also is a system that's okay with GM rulings as well.

All of this doesn't make suppressive fire good by any means.  Even a HMG does only 7P -3 AP suppressive fire a phase and that's not enough to worry people are any sort of threat.  I guess a rich man could use suppressive fire capsule rounds to hit a whole bunch of people with X flavor of drug.  Then he'll just have to survive the rest of the turn before the whole room falls over.

net hits still counts

No one said you couldn't apply weapon mods to satellite weapons.

I hope nobody heard you...

[Mirikon]

This might have got a little off topic with Aesir satellites modified for full auto Thor shots but the idea resembles an evil genius' plan

Can you think of any better anti-dragon weapons?

I hope nobody heard you...

I dunno. Might be interesting to see what people came up with if they did.

[Ronin]

Can you think of any better anti-dragon weapons?

Another dragon? Either that or the common sense not to mess with a dragon in the first place 

[Sichr]

This might have got a little off topic with Aesir satellites modified for full auto Thor shots but the idea resembles an evil genius' plan

Can you think of any better anti-dragon weapons?

I hope nobody heard you...

I dunno. Might be interesting to see what people came up with if they did.

nanobots
genetech warfare