[Banshee]

Yes, 20 targets is pushing it. Even 10 will probably not come into play very often. If ever.


But even attacking say.... 6 targets. Without splitting the pool at all. Is pretty darn OP. With a dice pool of say 18 dice you would normally only get 3 dice per target. With allowing Anticipation with FA you basically get 15 extra dice. Per target. Times Six. That's equivalent of 80(!) extra dice. For just 4 edge. That right there is game breaking powerful. There is no other Edge Boost or Edge Action that get you even remotely close to that.


A more reasonable level for just 4 edge is to let you make two attacks without splitting the pool (which the SRM reading does)
Anything beyond that.... ;-(

It may be a bit much compared to other edge actions... but in the 4 years I've been running it I can only say it's truly felt like an OP I win button at most 2 or 3 times and all of those involved a HMG on FA versus a bunch of nooks. So I'm fine with it. It's fun for the players and only takes a little bit of GM control to keep it in line.

As for the SRM ruling, I've been on record as disagreeing with from the time it was proposed as it manufactures false limits that are not part of the RAI.

[MercilessMing]

But even attacking say.... 6 targets. Without splitting the pool at all. Is pretty darn OP. With a dice pool of say 18 dice you would normally only get 3 dice per target. With allowing Anticipation with FA you basically get 15 extra dice. Per target. Times Six. That's equivalent of 80(!) extra dice. For just 4 edge. That right there is game breaking powerful.

Only because without Anticipation, FA is brokenly useless.  3 dice per target is a problem in itself.  Think if a mage had to split their spellcasting dice pool up between all the targets in the AOE of their Fireball. FA should be retooled with the AOE ability rules.

[Hobbes]

Multi Attack, minor action.  Augments and gear may allow characters to make more than one attack per action. Each attack must be made against a different target.
 Use half the appropriate dice pool for each attack. 

Melee: Characters may make 1 additional attack per Initiative Die they roll.  All targets must be within melee range.  Some weapons (double bladed weapons, etc) may also provide additional attacks.

Firing Modes
When using Ranged Weapons in the primary hand, additional attacks must be against targets within X meters of each other. Ranged weapons held in the off hand do not gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode.
SS: Base AR, Base DV, no additional attacks.  1 ammo
SA: -2 AR, and: +1 DV OR +1 additional attack.  2 ammo
BF: -4 AR, and: +2 DV OR +2 additional attacks.  4 ammo
FA: -6 AR, and: +3 DV OR +3 additional attacks.  10 ammo

Dual Wielding: +1 additional attack, with that weapon.  When dual wielding ranged weapons with firing modes, characters must choose between making an additional attack with the off hand OR making additional attacks with the firing mode of the primary hand.  Targets do not need to be within X meters of each other when using additional attacks from dual wielding.  Additional attacks made from the off hand may be made against the same target as attacks from the primary hand.

Ambidextrous quality: Offhand may use Edge, and may gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode.  Characters still may not gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode in both hands at the same time.

(maybe-possibly-haven't thought about it much) Gun Kata: Ambidextrous characters may gain the benefits of additional attacks from firing mode in both hands at the same time (just an idea, it'd be cool to make additional attacks an effective path of high level growth)

Anticipation: Use full dice pool when making multiple attacks.

My reasoning: Splitting the dice pool at any time is usually a bad idea.  Focusing fire is normally preferred, it's a basic, effective RPG tactic.  That's why I only ever limit it to one split, regardless of number of targets.  This mode of attack still has to have a chance to be effective.  More than one split, at the dice pool numbers Shadowrun uses, almost always results in completely missing everything.  Splitting once is risky at dice pools of 12 and under.  At 16 they can be reliable in non-critical situations, at 20 it's pretty reliable in most situations except against really heavy hitters.  I have a player who is just starting to think about multiple attacks now that his firearms pool is 18.
I initially thought about giving a flat dice pool penalty for multiple attacks, but settled on splitting because it's a penalty that grows with the pool, and also doesn't sound as bad as "-6" which is what it often is. 
Since splitting multiple times per target was a self-limiting mechanic, I tied # of attacks to firing mode and other augments people can chase, something other people are doing too.
The only thing I think is wrong with Anticipation is the lack of target cap. So I didn't change it.

Edit: added clarifications and cases for multiple attacks vs one target

So, +3d6 Initiative character, (Level 3 Wired, Synaptic Booster, or Increased Reflexes), Ambidextrous and Dual Wielding, 5 melee attacks at full pool against 1 to 5 Targets with one Major action / Attack Action?  I'm not sure what Melee attacks gain from Multi Attack or Anticipation. 

Same character using Ranged attacks, makes 4 FA attacks at - 6 AR, full dice pool, with each Attack action.

Or are the additional attacks from Firing Mode / Melee combat only when Multi Attacking?

[Michael Chandra]

Meh, Full Auto explicitly says it doesn't use Multiple Attacks, so I don't see a reason to combine that with Anticipation.

No, it says it allows multiple attacks without using the multiple attack minor action. That just means you don't have to spend an extra minor action to multi attack with FA. So works just fine as is and works with Anticipation... except FA explicitly says it can be focused on a single target and Anticipation implies (and should be clarified) must be split between multiple targets.
It's really a lot more simple and straightforward than people make it.

Yes, and Anticipation requires Multiple Attacks, not multiple attacks. And I like the balance that way, so not letting it combine. Because the alternative is letting someone hose down a crowd of 60 people with a single attack, and I'd rather not.

No ... there no possible way to take out 60 in one attack (other than using grenades which is whole other issue). At most you can target 20 people if you're dual wielding FA smgs (which has other issues built into it as well) .. even then the sites to be just right. Such as firing into a nightclub full of targets or the enemy is coming at you in formation grouping with no tactical thinking what so ever. 99% of the time you going to have 6-8 viable targets and at most the option of 10 attacks.

Ares Roadmaster with 6 weapon mounts.

And honestly, I don't feel like having to rule-lawyer enemy positioning with FA-bursts and Anticipation. =/ I'd rather award people for getting Ambidextrous and daring to dual-wield, than just make FA the better option for them. Worst case a cap of '1 extra minor action per extra target' or 'max 4 targets' would suffice, but that again means FA is too easy compared to someone daring to dual-wield. So I'd rather just restrict Anticipation from stacking with FA, and think of a better way to buff FA.

[MercilessMing]

So, +3d6 Initiative character, (Level 3 Wired, Synaptic Booster, or Increased Reflexes), Ambidextrous and Dual Wielding, 5 melee attacks at full pool against 1 to 5 Targets with one Major action / Attack Action?  I'm not sure what Melee attacks gain from Multi Attack or Anticipation. 

Anticipation is only for ranged weapons.  I didn't say that, but I didn't rewrite the whole thing.  (However I'd be fine trying it in melee too).  If you could use Anticipation in melee then yeah that guy gets up to 5 targets if they're all in melee range with one Major for attack and Minor for Multi attack, and 4 edge to trigger anticipation. 

Same character using Ranged attacks, makes 4 FA attacks at - 6 AR, full dice pool, with each Attack action.

Or are the additional attacks from Firing Mode / Melee combat only when Multi Attacking?

Good god yes, only when multi attacking.  Sorry apparently that wasn't clear, I haven't written this out before.  You still must use the multi attack action to use multiple attacks.  And I would take away the FA "bonus" of not having to spend the minor action for multi attack since I'm giving it a single target firing option now and taking away the ability to do multiple small pool attacks against the same target.

An ambidextrous shooter firing FA weapons in each hand could make one single target attack with each weapon (-6AR +3DV) at half pool (full pool with anticipation) against targets anywhere around them (even the same target),
OR
They could make up to four attacks with one weapon (either hand since they're ambidextrous) at -6AR +0DV at half pool (full pool with anticipation) against different targets within X meters of each other.  They still can't attack with the off hand if they use the option to multi attack with their gun's firing mode ability.

[Xenon]

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29993.msg524173#msg524173


Range categories and Attack Rating
If a weapon does not have an Attack Rating in a certain range category, it cannot be used at that range. Also, if a weapon does not have an adjusted Attack Rating (after applying firing modes, accessories, statuses and ammunition etc) of 1 or more in a certain range category, it cannot be used with that combination at that range.


Semi-Automatic:
In this firing mode you may fire two rounds rapidly with two trigger pulls against a single target which will decrease the Attack Rating of your weapon by 2 and increase damage by 1. You may also fire just one round with one trigger pull, in which case there are no changes to a weapon's attributes.


Burst Firing:
You’ve got a fancy gun that pumps out multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. You can fire four rounds in an attack. The Attack Rating in this firing mode is decreased by 4. You can shoot a narrow burst against a single target which increase damage by 2, or make a wide burst against two targets, positioned no more than 2 meters apart and with no other targets (not friend nor foe) between them, by taking the multiple attacks minor action and splitting your dice pool. Wide burst increase damage of both attacks by 1.


Anticipation and full auto
Anticipation may not be used with Full Auto firing mode

[Xenon]

Perhaps a fix to Full Auto?

Full Auto
The shooter chooses to either provide his or her team with suppressive fire (see below) or hose down a single target with a long burst of bullets. Hosing down a single target with a long burst of bullets uses 10 bullets, decrease Attack Rating by 6 and increase damage by 3.

Suppressive Fire
Suppressive fire uses twenty rounds of ammo and, as long as the shooter does not move or commit to any other action, it last until the next combat turn. A character can suppress a triangular area projecting from the shooting character outward up to a distance of his choosing within Near or Medium range with a width of 10 meters at its end and a height of 2 meters. Make a Firearms + Agility test and note number of hits. Any character (both friend and foe) in the suppressed area or who moves into or out of the area before the end of the suppressive fire, risks catching some flying lead and must make a Reaction + Edge Test with a threshold equal to the hits scored by the suppressing attacker. If the test fails, the character is hit, suffering damage equal to the weapon’s base Damage Value modified by any special ammunition being fired. Characters that already have the Cover IV status or the Prone status are not at risk of getting hit. Characters that happen to have spare Minor action may choose to Hit the Dirt in order to avoid getting hit. Any character who stands up or moves again before the suppressive fire stops must make a test to see if he or she is hit.