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Help me convince my players of... orks (and trolls)

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Jayde Moon

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« Reply #15 on: <08-08-15/1831:51> »
La Sombra, ork face, Charisma 6.  Art by Obidancer.

Guess all you can do is show them, and also really get across that the first orks and trolls of the 6th age goblinized from human adolescents.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #16 on: <08-08-15/1947:23> »
I want to say Oni (japanese ork variant) has blue skin.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #17 on: <08-08-15/2358:56> »
For what it's worth, this is a problem with new Shadowrun artists as well. The art guys get back a lot of work featuring green Orks instead of normal human flesh tones. It usually only happens once, maybe twice, before they're on point. 40K looms large in the minds of all.

(At least we don't get 1st ed pig-headed Orcs!)

Exactly, therein lies my problem.
It sounds like you guys may have had something similar? How did you handle it?

It's hard to overcome the cultural baggage.

I *believe* that the art director sends it back, with notes about the skin tone, and with a handful of 'Proper' turksers to use for corrections and future art. Onc eyou get it corrected once, that artist pretty much never has to be told again. (Unless they take, like, five years between products and do more traditional fantasy in that period).

But I confess that I don't know for certain. Not my department. (My one art credit doesn't really count, after all!)

Overbyte

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« Reply #18 on: <08-09-15/0004:02> »
I want to say Oni (japanese ork variant) has blue skin.

Blue, red or orange.  :D
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

Quatar

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« Reply #19 on: <08-09-15/0024:51> »
Also have them listening to the Neo Anarchist Podcast. The first season is pretty much all that stuff that happened from the 1990s to 2050s, and it should get them a pretty good overview over how the goblinisation happened and all the atrocities in it's wake, like the Night of Rage.
It will also give them a lot of other background info too, so it's a good listen for everyone. If you haven't listened to it, do it.

But yes certain preconceptions are pretty hard to overcome.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #20 on: <08-09-15/0521:13> »
Just let them be racist is a good idea to start.... EVERYONE in SR is racist as fuck!!! It's one of my pet peeves that ONLY humanis is shown in a negative light for doing it, bothered me for decades at this point. Individuals aren't any better or worse than they are now but the groups are just as bad as they are now if not worse. Indians hate the White Man, Elves hate everyone without pointy ears, Orks don't like elves or humans, Japanese hate everyone not Japanese... all pretty standard fare for normal human xenophobia instincts that make everyone not in your "tribe" an enemy competing for the same resources that is built into our DNA.


FasterN8

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« Reply #22 on: <08-09-15/0855:53> »
I use obsidian portal for their portfilio of NPCs.  It has a nice portrait feature that shows then what each one character looks like.  They may have their own preconcieved ideas, but when you show them specifically what each one looks like... Then you've just overridden their own mental image.  As far as socialization goes, you just have to roleplay orks as reasonable people and not Flesh eating monsters.

Mr. Black

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« Reply #23 on: <08-09-15/1944:53> »
Show your players orks and trolls in a new light. Go totally the opposite of their perceptions. Give them a group of orks and trolls in 3-piece suits discussing the stock market. As your Crew drives down the freeway, they see billboards with Seattle Mariners (or whatever team in whichever city you are running the game) star third base "man" Hector Alvarez, encouraging them to attend games. Whenever they are talking with NPC's, Neil the Ork Barbarian is playing the trideo in the background. Remind them that it is its 28th (or so) season, and unless they 50 year-olds, they grew up with the show and it is their Simpsons. Show them human and dwarf and elf kids wearing Neil the Ork Barbarian t-shirts. And hipsters too. Send them to a children's Neil the Ork Barbarian themed birthday party for a meet with Mr. Johnson. Hide clues/memory sticks/certified credsticks in Oswald Washington bobble head dolls, star troll running back of the Chicago Bears, and this years undisputed number 1 fantasy football draft pick. Have them do a long extraction with a cowardly, sniveling ork scientist. You know, smart, but weak physically and spiritually. Have them make an Exchange/Swap at a professional women’s beach volley ball tournament, with lots of lithe, hot, scantily-clad ork/troll players, including Petra Scorfina, star Italian player and ork, and this years #1 Sexiest Female Athlete according to The Chuck Wagon, the #1 matrix site for men. Do a run in gang territory, an ork/troll gang's territory, with orks and trolls hanging out, complete with ork posers. Have them get hired by Gary Cline, Ork and CEO of Horizon. Have that police detective they have as a contact be an ork. And make him or her, smart, efficient, and always bailing them out of jams. Put posters of Orxanne or CrimeTime up in every kid's rooms. Do any of them have Dependent kids? Have their kid bring home their new best friend, who just happens to be a troll kid. From that nice troll couple down the street. Do they have teen-aged or older daughter, or better yet a sister? Then have that sister/daughter bring home a new ork/troll boyfriend. Can they keep from going full Hulk Hogan? (too soon?)

Are they still not getting it? Then have Gary Cline hire them to bodyguard Shangri-La Productions new star group, the Chon-delles, an all female troll sister trio singing powerpop tunes, with an ork manager (think female, business suit, glasses, always on the phone, and complaining about the groups silly demands-"By the Goddess! They want McHugh's Triple Chocolate Iced Lattes with extra soy and caramel, at 3 in the morning!"), for a 3 week run. Give them ups and downs of the music biz, personal jealousies(who’s prettier, who’s more talented, who has the better boyfriend, etc.) racist protestors, hordes of ork/troll fans, Sons of Sauron types showing up, etc. And don’t forget some orxplotation stars calling them out as “sell-outs” and “not trogg enough”. Have the girls fight/ make-up, etc. Have a cool scene with the Chon-Delles cruising down the main drag in a convertible stretch limo, with crowds throwing confetti, and a contingent of Sons of Sauron in full regalia on motorcycles providing escort, complete with UCAS flags strapped to their bikes, flapping in the breeze. And don't forget to include a slumber party/nail painting/horn polishing scene, with the manager included. Just to show them as Everyday-Joan women. Just everything from every “a star is born” movie/TV show you have every seen. Throw Dreamgirls/Almost Famous/The Commitments/A Star is Born/Pitch Perfect/The Bodyguard/Hustle and Flow/Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story/Notorious/That Thing You Do/The Runaways/Cadillac Records/Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants/Introducing Dorothy Dandridge/Magnolias/Dirty Dancing into a blender and expose your players to it. The villain (if there is one…) could be Humanis types (boring) or something out of The Bodyguard. Serial killer? Angry fourth sister who stayed home to raise a kid thus didn’t get the fame and fortune of the Chon-Delles? Someone up the chain at Shangri-La hoping to use the death threats for free advertising and sympathy? And be absolutely sure to show everyone as just plain human. With human desires and very human frailties.

If after this they still don’t get, there is just no helping them. Except maybe to start over, and only orks/trolls are allowed. You know, like that episode of the Twilight Zone…

Deadborder

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« Reply #24 on: <08-15-15/0544:36> »
Do you have Chrome Flesh? If so, show them some of the sections written by Butch; intelligent, well-read, well-educated and clearly knowledgeable of the subject. Then point out that she's an Ork

Atlessa

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« Reply #25 on: <08-15-15/0858:22> »
Do you have Chrome Flesh? If so, show them some of the sections written by Butch; intelligent, well-read, well-educated and clearly knowledgeable of the subject. Then point out that she's an Ork

Butch is a she?!  Damn...

SpellBinder

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« Reply #26 on: <08-15-15/1003:03> »
Do you have Chrome Flesh? If so, show them some of the sections written by Butch; intelligent, well-read, well-educated and clearly knowledgeable of the subject. Then point out that she's an Ork

Butch is a she?!  Damn...
Yeah, a she, but I thought she was a troll.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #27 on: <08-17-15/1505:38> »
Do you have Chrome Flesh? If so, show them some of the sections written by Butch; intelligent, well-read, well-educated and clearly knowledgeable of the subject. Then point out that she's an Ork

Ork

Butch is a she?!  Damn...
Yeah, a she, but I thought she was a troll.