Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Anarkitty on <12-03-12/1435:08>
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On the pictures thread I found this gun:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/68huet.jpg)
Which linked to this article:
http://www.pascaleggert.de/ThorA1.html
It just screams Shadowrun to me, and I decided I want it to exist in-game, as an expensive, rare and awesome SMG.
There are no standard firearm design rules in SR4, so I just decided to wing it. I created two versions, one that actually matches (reasonably closely) the specs given by the author, and one that is more in line with other guns in Arsenal and the core book.
I'd like to get opinions and feedback before I hand these rules to my GM (and I'm an attention whore, so I just want to put this out there anyway).
Unbalanced version:
| Submachine Gun | Damage | AP | Mode | RC | Ammo | Avail | Cost |
| iPEG Thor A1 | 5P | -1 | SA/FA | 2(3) | 50(c)* | 14F | 2,200¥ |
| *Spare cMAG clip | | | | | 50 | 8 | 20¥ |
| Thor Sound Suppressor | | | | | | 12F | 400¥ |
The Thor A1 is an experimental prototype submachine gun developed by the iPEG Corporation. Primarily an industrial design house with a reputation for sculpted lines, exceptional funtionality and high price tags, their newly formed arms division seeks to expand their market to wealthy and style-concious mercenaries, special forces and shadowrunners. To that end, the stylish and powerful Thor was designed to meet the needs of those willing to pay for the best. The body is high-density plastic, and the frame and internal workings are titanium, giving it unprecedented reliability, and allowing it to handle assault rifle ammunition for increased penetration, though it still uses SMG ranges and skills.
The Thor features a special firing mechanism that grants two points of recoil compensation, and a folding stock and foregrip that can be deployed together as a simple action. It has a top-mount that can handle any standard accessories, but no under-barrel mount. The barrel mount can handle most standard accessories, but it cannot accommodate a sound suppressor other than the one specifically designed for it without retooling -- taking an Armorer+Logic(2) test and voiding the warranty. If the custom sound-suppressor is equipped, it provides an underbarrel mount for an additional accessory, but increases the concealability modifier by +2. It is also available with an internal smartgun system (+500¥). This is a distinctive and uncommon weapon, and gives a +1 dice pool modifier to any tests to remember the weapon or its wielder.
Balanced version (based on the TN-P93):
| Submachine Gun | Damage | AP | Mode | RC | Ammo | Avail | Cost |
| iPEG Thor A1 | 5P | -- | SA/BF/FA | 2(3) | 50(c) | 11F | 900¥ |
The Thor A1 is an experimental prototype submachine gun developed by the iPEG Corporation. Primarily an industrial design house with a reputation for sculpted lines, exceptional funtionality and high price tags, their newly formed arms division seeks to expand their market to wealthy and style-concious mercenaries, special forces and shadowrunners. To that end, the stylish and powerful Thor was designed to meet the needs of those willing to pay for the best. The body is high-density plastic, and the frame and internal workings are titanium, giving it unprecedented reliability
The Thor features a special firing system that provides 2 points of recoil compensation, and a folding stock and foregrip that deploy together as a simple action. It is available with an internal smartgun system for an additional 500¥.
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As i find the way some thinks are same and some different between your version and mine ill post the version i wrote up last year and updated when gun haven came out.
THOR PDW
THOR PDW is the latest offering from Ares arms to personal defence weapon market, its mostly marketed toward mercenary and security vehicle drivers
as well as to those bodyguards who need SMG firepower in a small and discreed package.
The THOR features a special chamber system that provides 1 points of recoil compensation, it's also smaller then other SMG:s, add +1 to conceleability.
Can be purchased with an internal smartlink for 4500¥
Std. Upgrades/Accessories:Powered folding stock and foregrip
5P -1 SA/BF/FA 1(3) 50(c) 15R 3400¥
*cannot mount underbarrel accessories.
Should that RC on your versions be 2(4) as both the stock and foregrip provide 1 point?
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I think the -1 AP is characterful without being overpowering, especially if it uses assault rifle ammo (which the original does).
It would slightly increase the cost of ammunition, and I would increase the cost of the weapon closer to where you put it.
I didn't note the RC as 2(4) because the foregrip only provides a benefit when firing full-auto, and other weapons with foregrip in the official books didn't include it in their RC entries. I'm just following the existing formatting.
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I think the -1 AP is characterful without being overpowering, especially if it uses assault rifle ammo (which the original does).
It would slightly increase the cost of ammunition, and I would increase the cost of the weapon closer to where you put it.
I didn't note the RC as 2(4) because the foregrip only provides a benefit when firing full-auto, and other weapons with foregrip in the official books didn't include it in their RC entries. I'm just following the existing formatting.
Ammo costs the same regardless of what type of firearm it's for.
As for foregrip since it's built in modification (Ars 148), it's actually just 1 RC (Ars 152). None of the guns in Arsenal or SR4A have built in foregrips*. As for the guns in the Gun Heaven series, the recoil from the foregrip is included in the () like a stock. Examples of this include the MP9, MP7, and T-983.
The gun itself is cool looking. The stats you give it make it really good. It isn't the -1 AP that does it. It's the 2 RC from the special firing system. But since the goal is to make an awesome best in slot firearm, that's fine. I would have gone with a 6P "carbine" SMG like the M4A1 with foregrip, folding stock, and maybe 1 point innate RC. That makes it the best in slot SMG in a non-SnS world, and in a SnS world an arguable choice.
*- I did only check by running find for "foregrip" in both books. So maybe there's a foergrip or something I missed.
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I think the -1 AP is characterful without being overpowering
I actually see this as a feature of personal defense weapons(based on the MP7 in Gun heaven) and think that P93 Praetor should get it too.
Also as Tsuzua said, only that accessory foregrip has restrictions on when it applies, the mod one works always.
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I think the -1 AP is characterful without being overpowering, especially if it uses assault rifle ammo (which the original does).
It would slightly increase the cost of ammunition, and I would increase the cost of the weapon closer to where you put it.
I didn't note the RC as 2(4) because the foregrip only provides a benefit when firing full-auto, and other weapons with foregrip in the official books didn't include it in their RC entries. I'm just following the existing formatting.
Ammo costs the same regardless of what type of firearm it's for.
As for foregrip since it's built in modification (Ars 148), it's actually just 1 RC (Ars 152). None of the guns in Arsenal or SR4A have built in foregrips*. As for the guns in the Gun Heaven series, the recoil from the foregrip is included in the () like a stock. Examples of this include the MP9, MP7, and T-983.
The gun itself is cool looking. The stats you give it make it really good. It isn't the -1 AP that does it. It's the 2 RC from the special firing system. But since the goal is to make an awesome best in slot firearm, that's fine. I would have gone with a 6P "carbine" SMG like the M4A1 with foregrip, folding stock, and maybe 1 point innate RC. That makes it the best in slot SMG in a non-SnS world, and in a SnS world an arguable choice.
*- I did only check by running find for "foregrip" in both books. So maybe there's a foergrip or something I missed.
It's entirely possible I misread something. If the foregrip provides RC standard, then I agree, it only needs 1 internal RC. I think 3 total when unfolded seems appropriate.
Since it does fire assult rifle ammunition, I thought about making it 6P, but I thought that was a little too good, so I went with the -1 AP instead.
So the new stats come across as:
| Submachine Gun | Damage | AP | Mode | RC | Ammo | Avail | Cost |
| iPEG Thor A1 | 5P | -1 | SA/FA | 1(3) | 50(c)* | 14F | 2,200¥ |
Foregrip and stock deploy together as a single simple action.
-1 concealability bonus when collapsed, +2 concealability penalty when sound suppressor is attached (modifiers stack).
Incidentally, what book is SnS? I'm not familiar with any supplements that could have that acronym.
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Incidentally, what book is SnS? I'm not familiar with any supplements that could have that acronym.
That's "Stick and Shock" ammo, from the core book, with "n" being a phonetic abbreviation for a common dialect-based pronunciation of "and".
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Incidentally, what book is SnS? I'm not familiar with any supplements that could have that acronym.
That's "Stick and Shock" ammo, from the core book, with "n" being a phonetic abbreviation for a common dialect-based pronunciation of "and".
That makes way too much sense. I probably would have realized, but I was thinking rule books, rather than rules. :P
Thank you.
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I have to say that the person that designed the THOR has made a great looking gun. (It's just to bad that the web site is looking really wonky on my end.)
I think that Anarkittys latest version would probably be allowed at my table. That said I think that there should be a option to buy the THOR with a motorized stock and foregrip out of the box that would deploy as a free action. High class bodyguards and the like would surly enjoy that feature. I don't have a clue how much more that should cost.
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I have to say that the person that designed the THOR has made a great looking gun. (It's just to bad that the web site is looking really wonky on my end.)
I think that Anarkittys latest version would probably be allowed at my table. That said I think that there should be a option to buy the THOR with a motorized stock and foregrip out of the box that would deploy as a free action. High class bodyguards and the like would surly enjoy that feature. I don't have a clue how much more that should cost.
My version actually has that, a powered folding stock deploys as a free action and most reasonable GM:s would likely allow the powered foregrip to deploy on the same free action
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My version actually has that, a powered folding stock deploys as a free action and most reasonable GM:s would likely allow the powered foregrip to deploy on the same free action
Your version is good looking too Mäx. I say that you can just add an explicit rule that say that that is the way the gun works.
But I have been thinking, maybe the gun should have another name, it might be confused with the Thor missile, maybe the Loki? ;)
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My version actually has that, a powered folding stock deploys as a free action and most reasonable GM:s would likely allow the powered foregrip to deploy on the same free action
Your version is good looking too Mäx. I say that you can just add an explicit rule that say that that is the way the gun works.
But I have been thinking, maybe the gun should have another name, it might be confused with the Thor missile, maybe the Loki? ;)
Donar is another name for Thor. That might work.
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It's cool, just it looks non-ergonomical and prone to jamming.
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It's cool, just it looks non-ergonomical and prone to jamming.
Isn't true for a lot of SR guns? ;)
Donar is another name for Thor. That might work.
Oh that is why mr. Thunder-Gun from Scion's last name is Donner.
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It's cool, just it looks non-ergonomical and prone to jamming.
Isn't true for a lot of SR guns? ;)
Well let's induct it already. :P
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My version actually has that, a powered folding stock deploys as a free action and most reasonable GM:s would likely allow the powered foregrip to deploy on the same free action
Your version is good looking too Mäx. I say that you can just add an explicit rule that say that that is the way the gun works.
I'll most likely add that in if i ever get around to converting my gear file to something a little more presentable then a .txt file.
On the name, it's what the original desing is named and really confusing an SMG to an orbital dropped telephone pole isn't very likely :D
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On the name, it's what the original desing is named and really confusing an SMG to an orbital dropped telephone pole isn't very likely :D
I kept the name, and invented the company, out of respect for the original creator, who has provided neither permission nor acknowledgement.
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I'll most likely add that in if i ever get around to converting my gear file to something a little more presentable then a .txt file.
On the name, it's what the original desing is named and really confusing an SMG to an orbital dropped telephone pole isn't very likely :D
If you are going to edit a .txt-file then I would recommend notepad++ . It's like notpad but a whole two pluses better. ;)
I confuse SMGs and orbital kinetic weapons all the time, but I'm for Sweden so what do I know.
On the name, it's what the original desing is named and really confusing an SMG to an orbital dropped telephone pole isn't very likely :D
I kept the name, and invented the company, out of respect for the original creator, who has provided neither permission nor acknowledgement.
Well it's not like he/she is losing any money over this so I'm sure that he/she don't mind. But I guess that this puts any plans to try and have it included in a theoretical Gun Haven 3 on hold.
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If you are going to edit a .txt-file then I would recommend notepad++ . It's like notpad but a whole two pluses better. ;)
Been using that for years, but i actually meant turning the .txt eventually to a prettier .pdf
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If you are going to edit a .txt-file then I would recommend notepad++ . It's like notpad but a whole two pluses better. ;)
Been using that for years, but i actually meant turning the .txt eventually to a prettier .pdf
Well if you do get that converted Max, Please let us all know!!
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It's like notpad but a whole two pluses better.
So ... one might say it's double plus good?
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It's like notpad but a whole two pluses better.
So ... one might say it's double plus good?
Please, no Newspeak on the forums. We're all better than that.
None of us are Iconoliterate only, after all.
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Please, Shadowrun guns make little to no sense as is... but that thing makes my head hurt in ways no gun should. :'(
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Please, Shadowrun guns make little to no sense as is... but that thing makes my head hurt in ways no gun should. :'(
Maybe we should shoot you in the face for money with it. That way it'll make your head hurt in the same way as every other gun does and all will be well with the world.
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Oh man, this thing is just fine in comparison to saaay, the Sakura Fubuki. It's techno ju-ju, don't break your brain trying to figure it out.
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As a real-life shooter, I have to ask....where the hell do you put the mag....er clip? Regular mags are (mostly) straight and can easily fit on a belt, in a pocket, in a pouch attached just about anywhere. This one, looks like it would take up way too much space on one's person or be very difficult to quickly remove from a mag-pouch. Not to mention that straight mags are more egronomically sound for rapid release and replacement. Just my humble opinion, but this looks way too awkward.
Granted SR is a RPG and I know that sometimes cool wins out over function. But me personally, I still like my weapons to make SOME sense.
But as a gamer, I always say "If you're having fun with it, run with it!"
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As a real-life shooter, I have to ask....where the hell do you put the mag....er clip? Regular mags are (mostly) straight and can easily fit on a belt, in a pocket, in a pouch attached just about anywhere. This one, looks like it would take up way too much space on one's person or be very difficult to quickly remove from a mag-pouch. Not to mention that straight mags are more egronomically sound for rapid release and replacement. Just my humble opinion, but this looks way too awkward.
Granted SR is a RPG and I know that sometimes cool wins out over function. But me personally, I still like my weapons to make SOME sense.
But as a gamer, I always say "If you're having fun with it, run with it!"
This is a game that has bull pups with folding stocks. Even a rudimentary understanding of firearms would make one ponder as to how, or better yet why. The fact is most people neither understand nor care to actually study guns in any serious regards so we might as well roll with it and just enjoy the zaniness. Also, have you ever seen the G11 magazine? that sucker was just as silly to swap, probably more so because this looks like it could be rocked into place while the G11 needed to have it's magazine pull out of the front of the weapon.
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Hey Damien, off topic I know but I've gotta hear the story behind your sig :"A few dozen doses of Warp, some DMSO, a squirt gun, and a room full of rich people... this is going to be good."
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This is a game that has bull pups with folding stocks. Even a rudimentary understanding of firearms would make one ponder as to how, or better yet why.
What weapons are you referring to?
Only one i could find is Sernopal vz/88V assault rifle and even it is bull pup only in the picture(and the picture even shows how)
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As a real-life shooter, I have to ask....where the hell do you put the mag....er clip? Regular mags are (mostly) straight and can easily fit on a belt, in a pocket, in a pouch attached just about anywhere. This one, looks like it would take up way too much space on one's person or be very difficult to quickly remove from a mag-pouch. Not to mention that straight mags are more egronomically sound for rapid release and replacement. Just my humble opinion, but this looks way too awkward.
Granted SR is a RPG and I know that sometimes cool wins out over function. But me personally, I still like my weapons to make SOME sense.
But as a gamer, I always say "If you're having fun with it, run with it!"
You would need some sort of custom magazine pouch for the flat half-circle mags, but I can't imagine they would be drastically harder to transport, and it looks like they go in easily enough.
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This is a game that has bull pups with folding stocks. Even a rudimentary understanding of firearms would make one ponder as to how, or better yet why.
What weapons are you referring to?
Only one i could find is Sernopal vz/88V assault rifle and even it is bull pup only in the picture(and the picture even shows how)
If you look at the picture in Arsenal it shows a folding skeleton stock right behind the magazine. You can see the hing... which now that i look at it i see it's on the left side of the weapon which is even stranger.