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Why are their no dragons in Egypt?

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #90 on: <10-20-11/2059:30> »
He died during a second ghost dance to remove the 'curse' of being a wendigo from Sam Warner (Twist)'s sister.  Another example of taking novels as canon being a nebulous idea at best.  Granted they were written before some rules existed, but there you go.

...

... did you read Find Your Own Truth??

Longshot, Howling Coyote died during combat (astral, possibly metaplanar) with a major spirit -- Spider, though it's a little vague whether it was the totem (who is, after all, a totem) or a powerful spirit that had taken on lots of aspects of it.  He and Verner (Coyote and Dog shamans, respectively) are engaged in close combat in the forms of their totems; Howling Coyote makes a daring but futile attack on the spirit, is mortally wounded, and says something that makes Twist realize that he's more than 'just a dog'.  As Verner is the focus of the Ghost Dance, he has immediate access to massive power, if he decides to use it; he decides to do so, changing from a dog to a doglike human, i.e. a shaman with access to the power being channeled through him.

Using it, he smites Spider, and Spider falls.  Using it, the Ghost Dance requires from him the sacrifice of his own power, which suggests to me that Howling Coyote never actually acted as the center of a Dance...

So to correct and clarify, Howling Coyote dies in combat, not due to blood magic/sacrifice metamagic.
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CanRay

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« Reply #91 on: <10-20-11/2104:23> »
That's if he really died.

Dying is easy.  Living, that's hard.
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #92 on: <10-21-11/2313:22> »
And he's "Howling Coyote."  Trickster totems are awfully hard to pin down.
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CanRay

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« Reply #93 on: <10-21-11/2342:57> »
"Are you really dead?  Are you really alive?  Are you just stoned out of your head over what that red pill the scary black guy in the leather duster gave you and you knocked back like an idiot?"
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bigity

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« Reply #94 on: <10-22-11/1416:50> »
He died during a second ghost dance to remove the 'curse' of being a wendigo from Sam Warner (Twist)'s sister.  Another example of taking novels as canon being a nebulous idea at best.  Granted they were written before some rules existed, but there you go.

...

... did you read Find Your Own Truth??

Longshot, Howling Coyote died during combat (astral, possibly metaplanar) with a major spirit -- Spider, though it's a little vague whether it was the totem (who is, after all, a totem) or a powerful spirit that had taken on lots of aspects of it.  He and Verner (Coyote and Dog shamans, respectively) are engaged in close combat in the forms of their totems; Howling Coyote makes a daring but futile attack on the spirit, is mortally wounded, and says something that makes Twist realize that he's more than 'just a dog'.  As Verner is the focus of the Ghost Dance, he has immediate access to massive power, if he decides to use it; he decides to do so, changing from a dog to a doglike human, i.e. a shaman with access to the power being channeled through him.

Using it, he smites Spider, and Spider falls.  Using it, the Ghost Dance requires from him the sacrifice of his own power, which suggests to me that Howling Coyote never actually acted as the center of a Dance...

So to correct and clarify, Howling Coyote dies in combat, not due to blood magic/sacrifice metamagic.

So..you are confirming what I said with lots more details.

And spider is a regular ole totem now anyway, so I guess all the above was moot in any case.  And Spider was an 'outside' totem in a published adventure as well.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #95 on: <10-23-11/0010:40> »
Howling Coyote's death had nothing to do with Twist's wendigo sister.  That may be the direction Sam was leaning at the time, that may have been something he wanted to do with a fragment of the Ghost Dance power, but the main target of the Ghost Dance was the spirit that Twist had released in the Outback.

Saying Howling Coyote died to save Sam's sister is like saying World War Two was fought in order to get a couple of people out of Holland.  It may have happened, the Allies might have done it, but it was by no means the reason.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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CanRay

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« Reply #96 on: <10-23-11/0424:13> »
Again, show me his body.  Howling Coyote died once already...  And got better.

Tricky bugger.  Learned a bit from the White Man, and a hell of a lot more from Coyote, I bet.
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« Reply #97 on: <10-23-11/1027:30> »
Seeing how spider became a regular totem, it hard to argue that the 'main' goal of the dance succeeded.  So, he died to save a sister from a curse that was really a virus.

The point is of course, almost everything in the novels is bunk, as far as the game canon goes. Works for game related fiction, but little else.  This applies to some novels a lot more than others.

CanRay

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« Reply #98 on: <10-23-11/1319:22> »
Who is to say they're the same Spider?

Or that Spider is now a regular totem because she's got more important things to do than mess with Metahumans?  (So many tasty Insect Spirits to eat!  Om Nom Nom!).
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« Reply #99 on: <10-23-11/1321:13> »
Sure, possible.  But not supported by the "canon" novel. 

CanRay

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« Reply #100 on: <10-23-11/1321:48> »
Sure, possible.  But not supported by the "canon" novel.
Unreliable Narrators.  That's the thing I take into consideration.
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« Reply #101 on: <10-23-11/1325:15> »
Well, we've got writers on this very board that say that it's not possible to rule novel canon out.  Which is a silly statement, and causes lots of little things like this.

Unless we also apply the unreliable aspect to the novels as well.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #102 on: <10-23-11/1532:58> »
Again, show me his body.  Howling Coyote died once already...  And got better.

Sorry?  Daniel Coleman Howling Coyote disappeared, left the NAN high council in disgust at the infighting and vanished.  Nobody knew what happened to him; he didn't die.

This is, of course, according to my memory -- which can be occasionally spotty.  Do you have textev for his death?
Pananagutan & End/Line

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New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

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CanRay

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« Reply #103 on: <10-23-11/1849:20> »
Find Your Own Truth by Robert N. Charrette
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« Reply #104 on: <10-23-11/1854:19> »
I think he's asking what the first 'death' and came back was.  After he left the STC, I don't think he was considered dead was he?  Just..gone.