Shadowrun

Off-topic => General Gaming => Topic started by: Wolfboy on <10-08-10/1919:55>

Title: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Wolfboy on <10-08-10/1919:55>
was in the comic store this afternoon and ran across something that is sure to ensure my trip south of the angel/demon line, two game books for an RPG based in Jim butcher's "Harry Dresden" universe. I havent looked deep into the rules and i will be sure to before i buy the books but....


ok, i'm a fanboy, you do the math
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: FastJack on <10-08-10/1924:54>
Well, they sold very well in Q3 (It bumped Shadowrun from the top 5 (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18504.html)).
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Critias on <10-08-10/1933:15>
We're several sessions into our campaign so far, and it's really an excellent set of game books.  I'm not familiar with the Dresdenverse, myself (despite, or perhaps because of, so many people telling me they're right up my alley), but my wife is a rabid fan and she loves the sourcebooks.  About half our gaming group has read at least a few Dresden books, and they were all quite smitten with the "feel" of the RPG material.

Speaking of it solely as a gamer, though, I was still very impressed.  The core mechanic is the FATE system (which has been used in a few other games, apparently), and I'm enjoying it quite a bit.  It's a very narrative-driven, creative-thinking, sort of game -- not just dealing out HP worth of damage and calling it a day -- but it still isn't what I'd call rules light.  It's just rules different, and very story oriented.

Character and setting creation themselves are part of game play, with our whole group having a blast over a matter of hours, working together to flesh out our setting (Opal, Oklahoma, and the nearby Cherokee reservation), even as we started to weave our characters' backstories together, figure out how we knew each other, what we'd worked on together before, etc.  It's actually a lot of fun for these things to be group activities, in my opinion, instead of having it be the industry standard of "okay, I take the books off to a dark corner for a while and make my guy, then hand the books over to someone else" school of creation.

While we're all going to be tackling the mundane corruption and politics and crime of the burgeoning reservation casino, we'll also be dealing with supernatural threats that are drawn to the area due to a ley-line convergence and the fading of an old, old, No-See-'Em spell.  The increase in everyday traffic, tourism, and attention is making the spell weaker and weaker, and drawing in magical threats -- and the whole setting, from those broad strokes of it down to the name of the diner several of us eat breakfast at most mornings, all came from us with only minor nudges from the GM. 

Overall, we're all very much enjoying the game.  The folks who are fans of Butcher's books are having fun with the in-character nature of the rulebooks (and the detailed universe book, in particular), but even those of us who are new to the whole place are enjoying a well-made product with some great artwork and interesting rules.

I think you're in for a treat.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Caine Hazen on <10-08-10/2158:04>
I'm still waiting for a group to get together (damnit I run more than enough, someone else can run it) but I love the ruleset.  They made some good improvements on FATE that really fit the universe well.  The cooperative worldbuilding and storytelling are top notch.  And for fans of the series, its worth it to just get the books and read the side notes the run throught.  Can't wait until I'm playing this!
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mystic on <10-09-10/0334:14>
Ok, I just finished Changes about two months ago and Im still letting the mental adreneline rush calm down before I look for any more Dresden stuff. The last book was so mind-blowing and hard core, it is what propelled Jim Butcher to the status of "My Favorite Author".

That being said, then I hear about this newest gamer crack game, I instantly worry that it will suck and ruin the fragile perceptions of the Dresden-verse I hold dear. Guess I have nothing to worry about, eh?

But I do have a question or six, are there any "classes" or is it like SR and you can literally cobble togeather anything as long as you have the "points" (or whatever they use) for it? Also, are there other things to play other than Wizards, or wizard variants?
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Critias on <10-09-10/0420:34>
But I do have a question or six, are there any "classes" or is it like SR and you can literally cobble togeather anything as long as you have the "points" (or whatever they use) for it? Also, are there other things to play other than Wizards, or wizard variants?
At character creation you're given a pool of Fate Refresh to spend, during character creation.  Your Fate points are -- very vaguely -- like Edge points in Shadowrun, in that normally you use them to reroll or get a bonus on a roll, that sort of thing.  During creation, you have X number of these to spend, based on the power level of the game (we had 8, in ours).  You spend them on magical powers, skill-based abilities, or you can horde them in order to just have more Fate points to sling around once the game starts.

Within the confines of your Refresh that you can spend, you can make whatever your GM will let you make.  To be a "true" Wizard (with both Evocation and...uhh...Thaumaturgy?  I'm not playing one, so I don't remember the two Dresdenverse big schools of mojo manipulation) at our campaign's power level, it cost them all their available starting Refresh points;  so power-wise our two Wizards are fairly similar (though their skills, attitudes, backgrounds, are tremendously different).  In a higher level game, though?  You could make a Wizard that's also a Werewolf, or a White Court Vampire that's also got a bunch of additional skill-based abilities, or whatever.  If you've got the Refresh to spend, and if your GM (and the Dresdenverse as a whole) are okay with the powers and abilities you want to cobble together, you can make whatever you want.

There are powers listed for were-critters (primarily wolves), lycanthropes, changelings, different types of vampires (and different levels of being infected by them), True Believers (who have faith-based powers), folks with artifact goodies, you name it. 

To give you an idea of the spread of characters available?  Doing a disservice to all our characters by grossly oversimplifying them...right now we've got a reservation cop (totally mundane), a roaming monster hunter (totally mundane), an official White Council wizard (assigned to our town), a White Council-tolerated wizard (con man and gambler), an old school, merry fey, shapeshifter changeling (who currently works casino security because the ley line convergence makes her "feel good" out at the casino), a White Court vampire (who lives in the casino penthouse and feeds on the feelings of hope and despair the many tourist/gamblers give to him, exiled to the middle of nowhere after a failed political maneuver back in his home town), a wandering preacher man (who has supernatural abilities granted to him by God, including a "plot device" type power that just helps him show up where he's needed, which is, lately, sleepy little Opal, Oklahoma), and my character, who's perhaps best summed up as "a werefalcon version of Raylan Givens from Justified" (who's the off-reservation lawman for the area, who uses his unique family secret to do his job even better).

So we've got two mortals, one changeling/fae, one werecritter, one vampire, two wizards, and a true believer.  As of yet, no one's jumped out in front of anyone else as being fantastically more potent, as causing any sort of game inbalance, etc, etc.  Everyone's good at what their concept says they should be good at, everyone's rewarded for creative thinking and teamwork, everyone's useful...it's just been a great time, really.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-09-10/0453:08>
Great, now not only have I to catch up on multiple novels, but I have to buy and never play ANOTHER RPG... damn you :/
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mäx on <10-09-10/1726:18>
Great, now not only have I to catch up on multiple novels, but I have to buy and never play ANOTHER RPG... damn you :/
Heh, im just listening throught the books as fast as can(at the start of the last one right now) so i can start reading trought the RPG books.
Reading them myself would be faster, but James Master is so awesome reader that i prefer to listen the audio books even thought it takes longer. :)
Most likely i never get to play the game, but it's more canon* dresden stuff so gotta read them, from my leafing trought the books i can say their pretty awesome.

Yap the RPG is totally canon, in world its written by Billy as the modern equilevant of Bram Stoker's "Dracula"
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Irian on <10-09-10/1746:16>
The Dresden Files are pretty good and the rpg books look nice, but honestly, there are to so many different settings I would like to try first (and I would simply use the GURPS 4th rules for almost any of them :-)).
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-12-10/1214:41>
Let's see if it passes my first test, the "Other media brought in as an RPG" Test:

Are the characters from the books statted out?
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Critias on <10-12-10/1536:42>
Let's see if it passes my first test, the "Other media brought in as an RPG" Test:

Are the characters from the books statted out?
The second of the core books, "Our World," is pretty much nothing but statted out characters from books, with brief histories of each one, and comments from the (in-universe) peanut gallery in the margins.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-13-10/0830:18>
The second of the core books, "Our World," is pretty much nothing but statted out characters from books, with brief histories of each one, and comments from the (in-universe) peanut gallery in the margins.

Then I will pass on the system. IMO, characters from the source material should not be statted out. I've heard too many nerd fights over who could beat up source material characters with their uberCharacter, it got old a looooooooooooong time ago.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: FastJack on <10-13-10/0835:07>
I'm not passing on the system (not doing anything right now since my budget only allows for Pathfinder & Shadowrun at the moment--with the occasional Battletech), but I agree with Peter on the statting out of the big names. For some reason, as soon as players see a characters stats, most will go right to "I can beat him/her up!"
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-13-10/0850:04>
Sure they can. With maybe the exception of Harlequin, NPCs are just people. They can die. But players tend to forget, the hardcore NPCs have LOTS of ressources and friends. Beat up one, face a hundred on your way home.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Caine Hazen on <10-13-10/1049:36>
I'd actually give the system a look Peter, before writing it off.  Because the system favors story over stats, and beacuse the level of play across the board is different between players and "offical" npcs, there wil always be differences a storyteller can play off.  All wizards in the game begin with the exact same powers, but how they are developed by the player and GM will determin a lot of what they are limited by.  There are no set "spell lists" so there is no determining which spells are more powerful than which others. 

Really, you do yourself a disservice by not checking out what they did with the rules for this game.  If you have the type of payers who can't handle gaming without "power gaming"; I feel bad for you.  And if you've lurked too long in places where the ubercharacters go to harp on one another based on stats, this may well bring you back to the light of good roleplaying (vs roll-playing).
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-13-10/1224:57>
There are no set "spell lists" so there is no determining which spells are more powerful than which others.

Hang around enough engineer and science types and somebody will distill numbers down.

Really, you do yourself a disservice by not checking out what they did with the rules for this game.  If you have the type of payers who can't handle gaming without "power gaming"; I feel bad for you.  And if you've lurked too long in places where the ubercharacters go to harp on one another based on stats, this may well bring you back to the light of good roleplaying (vs roll-playing).

Sadly, the people I know who would have an interest in this game *are* the numbers people.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Wolfboy on <10-14-10/1102:55>
Doc, Peter, i still have to agree with Caine here with the adendum that the second book being character builds of the novel's characters being mostly for the GM's so they can throw the big names into a game without having to work out those characters in the background themselves. Also, another thing to keep in mind is power isnt everything, (ie stats vs roleplaying) its also a matter of tactics and strategy. I mean seriously, read the series, until the end of "Changes" and except for the time that Harry has the denarian renting space in his noggin, he's really not that big a bad ass, what he is however is crafty, cunning and has a natural sense of how to adapt tactically and strategically. Not to mention he thinks ahead, i mean seriously, using a "Ram" spell to blow out a truck tire and flip said truck full of fuzzy gun bunnies was genius, but not something he had specifically planned for, the rings simply stored kenetic energy whenever his hands moved.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-14-10/1501:18>
Doc, Peter, i still have to agree with Caine here with the adendum that the second book being character builds of the novel's characters being mostly for the GM's so they can throw the big names into a game without having to work out those characters in the background themselves.

That may be the reason it was decided to put the book out, but that still does not change my opinion.

I mean seriously, read the series...

I have. Still debating going back and picking up the hardcover versions of the books I have in paperback. Waiting for Side Jobs (twelve days left), debating another round of e-mail exchanges with him. None of that changes my opinion on the matter. Got tired of the eventual "Well, my character can do everything better than [named character] can!".
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: hazmat the monstar on <10-14-10/1525:23>
I checked out Pathfinder. I didn't think much of it. I am not a huge Fantasy fan. I love Shadowrun. What does everyone think of Eclipse Phase?
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-14-10/1540:03>
I checked a few parts of the core book. Seemed kind of overwhelming. I couldn't really grasp it, by maybe that was because it was too technical. I'm not that suffisticated in the english language, I'm afraid... I really like the idea behind it though. Transhumanism ftw!
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: hazmat the monstar on <10-14-10/1545:23>
Yeah, and if i got into another RPG now, I'd never get anything done. lol
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Liber Hazen on <10-14-10/1712:04>
Sure they can. With maybe the exception of Harlequin, NPCs are just people. They can die. But players tend to forget, the hardcore NPCs have LOTS of ressources and friends. Beat up one, face a hundred on your way home.

Spoken like a true GM Doc. I agree whole-heartedly! Bad guys have lots of friends and goons. Like magneto said in X-Men 3. Let the pawns go first that is what they are for ;)

As for the Dresden game. I have read only 3 of the Dresden books and I am in love. I am a fan boy through and through. One of my players recommended the Sci Fi series (on Netflix) and the books. I saw the show and it was all over. I couldn't get enough of this series. I am glad to know they have a system for this. We tried using Mage for the Jim Butcher world, but that never worked out. I am excited there is an official RPG out. Thanks for bringing this RPG to my attention I will be ordering that soon.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Caine Hazen on <10-14-10/1926:12>
Damn, we got more Hazens in this thing... :D

I had been thinking about this after some of the MIssions threads, and what's been said here from Peter... and decided for the most part, I hate gamers.  They've moved from being people who want to share a fantasy world, to a Decent model of "Me vs. the GM" and the internet has given them a place to flash their e-peens.  I think there comes a time that the gms of the world need to just stand up and slap some players around and just kill their characters for no good reason than "they bothered me".  Yes, if it has stats some tard monkey is going to try and say they can kill it.  Give them that adventure then... and stack the deck against them.  Its your right as a GM to do it, because those players have become nothing more than a disruption to your game, and are probably actually ruining it for the other players.

If I had that sort of player in the Dresdenverse, I'd just pull a Stormfront on them.  Have someone do some B&E, steal some hair from their comb or brush, channel a spell down at them, throw in a few veriables and just make sure it was enough that all their fate chips couldn't adjust it below dead any way they went.  Only clue they get its coming is if they happen to find out their place was broken into during the course of an adventure.  Make sure you tell the player it was a really weak mage using lots of ritual stuff to increase it (cause you can do that in the system, the weakest character in the game can find a way to do massive shifts and kill you 1 shot)  Then the player never gets invited back to the table.

Take control of the players and your game, make sure they all have fun.  Yeah,  the Dresdenverse might not be for everyone, especially hack n slash gamers; but don't discount a system because of the flaws of the gamers you keep.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: hazmat the monstar on <10-14-10/2014:48>
I agree Caine. I have no problem killing a character if they think they can just go around every single rule. Like players who want to be serial killers every time they play. I hate that. You don't just go around killing people and get away with it. Even the best get caught. Or karma catches up to you. I am not a strict person in real life when it comes to rules. But when your gaming, it's the only thing that makes it "real" (when your talking about dice & such) for example, if there was no rules, you could just write a story about a character who does everything with no problem. They can fly... whatever. So, yeah. If the player just wants to win. He dead... But don't get me wrong, I don't like killing characters. I just like the most realistic "cause & effect". kill 20 innocent people a day, and your gonna die in a shootout with lone star. Cause these same characters will NEVER talk to a cop. It's like: oh, a cop, get the dice, i'm gonna shoot him. lame.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Liber Hazen on <10-14-10/2220:44>
Damn, we got more Hazens in this thing... :D

Yeah I couldn't resist the Hazen name. I am an old FASA fan :) Jade Falcon is one my favorite clans. Hazen is a good bloodname.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mäx on <10-15-10/0219:28>
I have. Still debating going back and picking up the hardcover versions of the books I have in paperback. Waiting for Side Jobs (twelve days left), debating another round of e-mail exchanges with him.
Might still want to pick the RPG up, even if you dont plan on playing it, as the books are full of good stuff.
Just think of them as part of the series.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-15-10/0722:23>
Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mäx on <10-15-10/0802:24>
Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...
Just a warning if you plan on reading the novels, the RPG books are full of spoilers.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-15-10/0838:56>
Yeah, I figured that much. But I thought about it and decided that I don't care, good stories survive spoilers easily.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-15-10/1227:45>
Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...

Same advice I give anybody starting the series: the first three novels Butcher ever wrote...are the first three Dresden novels. They are tough to get though, his style/prose/storytelling improve as the series progresses. Don't give up on the series based on those three, they do get better as things move along.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-15-10/1230:56>
... and decided for the most part, I hate gamers.

Hehehe. It's not gamers that annoy me, it's annoying gamers. Unfortunately, I haven't found a good group that gets together at a time that works for me (Sunday gaming sucks when that's the only day can I spend with my fiance). I think good groups are insular to keep the riff-raff out.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mystic on <10-15-10/1330:10>
Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...

Same advice I give anybody starting the series: the first three novels Butcher ever wrote...are the first three Dresden novels. They are tough to get though, his style/prose/storytelling improve as the series progresses. Don't give up on the series based on those three, they do get better as things move along.

The best thing about the Dresden Files: YES, they keep getting BETTER. Most series get good, then plateau, or go downhill, then back up, etc. Not good old Harry D. With each book the storytelling, characters, depth, and twists get better. By the time the lastest book Changes comes about, the series is at a fever pitch, and then BAM, it all comes apart in a cornocopia of awsomeness with an ending that leaves you shaking and wanting more.

Nah, I didnt REEEEEEEALY like it, did I?

 8)
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Wolfboy on <10-15-10/2317:51>
oh yeah, that twist at the end of "Changes" was wicked.

Peter, see if you can get your girl into gaming, if she's, pardon the pun, game, then gaming with someone else as the GM becomes a bonding experience. All i can say is never be the GM when she's playing though, some relationships cant handle, or seperate the two.

and doc, think of things this way, I was brought into gaming pretty much the same way as you just got initiated into dresden. Welcome to the clan
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: PeterSmith on <10-16-10/1353:17>
Peter, see if you can get your girl into gaming...

Wedding first, higher-level gaming second. She's an anime girl, and party/casual games are very popular in her circle of friends. Annoyingly so, I invited a bunch of them to watch the Super Bowl earlier this year. One of them asked who was going to bring which games. I had to remind him that it was a football watching and food eating evening, and that there wouldn't be a good place to set up a game without disturbing people who didn't want to play.
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Mäx on <10-18-10/0509:51>
Don't give up on the series based on those three, they do get better as things move along.
Yes they do, going from good to awesome.
Also this is the only book series that i recommend to get as audio books, James Masters reading is awesome and his voice is perfect for Dresden IMHO. 
Title: Re: dresden files RPG: I'm going to hell and i dont care
Post by: Doc Chaos on <10-18-10/0541:51>
Greg Bear books - THAT is bad writing. Seriously, my eyes puked all over the books. I like Jim Butcher's style. Half-way through the first novel now :D

@Wolfboy Thank you. Do I get a shirt? ;D