Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: &#24525; on <11-11-18/1521:35>

Title: Superthyroid gland
Post by: &#24525; on <11-11-18/1521:35>
Aside from the 20r availability, is this actually useful? A +1 across the board sounds nice, but you also can't further augment them. Am I missing some niche application?
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <11-11-18/1528:16>
+1 to each of Body, Agility, Reaction, and Strength is pretty dang nice in of itself. Indirectly that's +1 to all your combat skills as well as +1 or +2 to your physical limit, plus a DV boost to your close combat damage.

And while it doesn't come in higher ratings, nothing stops it from stacking with other augmentations.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: PiXeL01 on <11-11-18/1609:48>
It used to be very restricted but they removed that. It stacks with everything now according to the Master Index
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Reaver on <11-11-18/1613:33>
+1 bonus to 4 physical stats for $140,000 and 0.70 essence. (Agility, Strength, Reaction, Body)

Muscle Toner   $32,000 and 0.2 (agility)
Muscle Aug     $31,000 and 0.2  (Strength)
Bone density   $5,000  and 0.3   (body)
*********************************
$68,000 and 0.70 essence for 3 stats in basic bioware. There is nothing in the basic ware for Reaction, which means you have to jump to cultured ware.
Which would be the synaptic booster.

$95,000 and 0.5 essence for +1 reaction (AND +1 initiative dice as well).

Which means a total of 1.2 essence and $163,000 spent. but you would also gain +1 initiative dice; and lock you out of wired Reflexes and Reaction enhancers.



So, its not a bad piece of tech for what it gives you and what it can save you in terms of essence. (Remember the +4 cap to stats)
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-11-18/1625:55>
It finally stacks with everything? O_O Nice! Time to borrow the Master Index book from my brother, since it doesn't say so in the digital version. (All I have is that e.g. Muscle Toner says "This bioware is incompatible with augmentations that increase Agility" and SG simply says it gives +1 on those 4 attributes.)

Reaver, 1 note: Bone Density doesn't actually give Body. It just adds a bonus to Body for damage resistance tests. SG is the only augmentation I know that actually increases Body.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Reaver on <11-11-18/1835:58>
It finally stacks with everything? O_O Nice! Time to borrow the Master Index book from my brother, since it doesn't say so in the digital version. (All I have is that e.g. Muscle Toner says "This bioware is incompatible with augmentations that increase Agility" and SG simply says it gives +1 on those 4 attributes.)

Reaver, 1 note: Bone Density doesn't actually give Body. It just adds a bonus to Body for damage resistance tests. SG is the only augmentation I know that actually increases Body.


.
..
...

That's what I get for keyword searching and not actually READING around the keywords. :(
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: PiXeL01 on <11-11-18/1943:12>
Suprathyroid gland: Placed on top of your existing thyroid gland, the suprathyroid gland supersedes the met- abolic functions of your thyroid. The enhanced metabolism produces more energy, supercharging you. While you’re supercharged, you might want to supersize—to fuel your optimized metabolism, you’ll need to eat twice as much as normal. You get a +1 to your Agility, Body, Reaction, and Strength, along with a 25 percent boost in lifestyle costs. And you might get a bit hyperactive.

The above is from the latest PDF of the Master Index p. 459
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: &#24525; on <11-12-18/0115:03>
+1 to each of Body, Agility, Reaction, and Strength is pretty dang nice in of itself. Indirectly that's +1 to all your combat skills as well as +1 or +2 to your physical limit, plus a DV boost to your close combat damage.

And while it doesn't come in higher ratings, nothing stops it from stacking with other augmentations.
Other ware is often incompatible with not-itself.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-12-18/0120:47>
Yeah, so I guess it still doesn't stack with the Muscle and Reaction ware. :< So I guess it still only combines with Spells/Powers/Drugs, which is what incredibly devaluates its worth.

Oh wait: Muscle Replacement. So the Gland is mostly useful to Muscle Replacement peeps who depend on drugs/Edge for Initiative.
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12497.0
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <11-12-18/0151:00>
If something doesn't say it has an exception, it doesn't have an exception?

Synthacardium gives no exceptions, so it should stack with anything (that doesn't itself have an exception that prevents it from stacking with the synthacardium, at least).  Of course since it doesn't give itself an exception to the universal limit of +4 bonus per stat from augmentations, so that still applies.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Reaver on <11-12-18/0551:41>
Of course since it doesn't give itself an exception to the universal limit of +4 bonus per stat from augmentations, so that still applies.

To my knowledge, the ONLY time the +4 limit doesn't apply is with WR and RE. That is the only combo that specifically mentions it breaks the limit.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: PiXeL01 on <11-12-18/0613:07>
Everything is subject to that limit UNLESS it’s stated.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-12-18/0724:06>
If something doesn't say it has an exception, it doesn't have an exception?

Synthacardium gives no exceptions, so it should stack with anything (that doesn't itself have an exception that prevents it from stacking with the synthacardium, at least).  Of course since it doesn't give itself an exception to the universal limit of +4 bonus per stat from augmentations, so that still applies.
Unfortunately most says they don't stack based on attribute. Muscle Toner says it doesn't stack with other boosts to Agility. Same for MA and Strength, SB/RE/WR and Reaction. THAT is what makes it worthless: The only Str/Rea/Agi ware it stacks with is Muscle Replacement.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Mirikon on <11-12-18/0859:31>
Of course since it doesn't give itself an exception to the universal limit of +4 bonus per stat from augmentations, so that still applies.

To my knowledge, the ONLY time the +4 limit doesn't apply is with WR and RE. That is the only combo that specifically mentions it breaks the limit.
Drugs break the +4 limit.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: PiXeL01 on <11-12-18/0915:23>
They do not. Where is that written?
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-12-18/1018:50>
They do not. Where is that written?
This was fixed in the master index. Originally Core said the bonus from AUGMENTATIONS is capped at +4. Increase [Attribute] and Attribute Boost explicitly mention obeying it. So anything not-augmentation and not mentioning obeying it, breaks it. In other words, under original RAW, drugs and Possession break Augmented Maximum.

However, right now the rules state "This applies to all sources of attribute increases. Whatever the source, or combination of sources, the maximum bonus for any attribute is always +4, unless specifically excepted." I have no idea if anything says so, asides from wireless RE+WR?

(Note that drug is still no augmentation, so still would read as stacking with some ware, even if it has to obey Augmented Maximum.)
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: adzling on <11-12-18/1230:28>
Michaels note above is correct afaik.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <11-12-18/1243:19>
If something doesn't say it has an exception, it doesn't have an exception?

Synthacardium gives no exceptions, so it should stack with anything (that doesn't itself have an exception that prevents it from stacking with the synthacardium, at least).  Of course since it doesn't give itself an exception to the universal limit of +4 bonus per stat from augmentations, so that still applies.
Unfortunately most says they don't stack based on attribute. Muscle Toner says it doesn't stack with other boosts to Agility. Same for MA and Strength, SB/RE/WR and Reaction. THAT is what makes it worthless: The only Str/Rea/Agi ware it stacks with is Muscle Replacement.

I had missed that Reaction Enhancers and Wired Reflexes have the same language... I was figuring that while Bioware equivalents to Cyberware tend to come with restrictions, a Suprathyroid was simply better synergizing with cyber rather than bio based augmentations.

But still, just because you have a Suprathyroid it doesn't preclude you from having RE/WE for example (and its own +1 Reaction wouldn't stack anyway once the RE/WE got to +4 due to it lacking the explicit power to break the augmented limit). The Suprathyroid's relevant bonuses just won't stack and you still get the benefit of the others.  Unlike certain bioware which does make mention of prohibiting even the implantation of 'competing' augmentations.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-12-18/1456:33>
Still sucky at the price when it doesn't stack. If you got any other augmentations, it's an utter waste.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: adzling on <11-12-18/1510:19>
totes.

the errata team took this up a while back, i'm checking to see if our proposed errata was submitted to jason.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Marcus on <11-13-18/0008:51>
I think it has it's place, at 35k .18e per stat point a it's reasonably costed.
It's generalist, so it's not you best min/maxing option. But if your looking for something well rounded, it could fit that role very well.

You can't beat the efficiency of the single cyberarm method, (With a pistol at-least).  But while a single cyberarm and some init gear can make a character functional in combat it doesn't make them a first tier combatant, it takes a lot more to reach that level.

The same can be said for this, climb the bio tree and it won't take you as far as cyberware, but it will give you more options in the sense that you will have a lot more open essence then the cyberware. Though It's worth consider that it may not be true anymore with the Advent of the intuition bioware. I guess it could work for ether.

But I think that's all working as intended.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: &#24525; on <11-13-18/0016:01>
Quote from: Master Core 455
Muscle Replacement

It increases both your Strength and Agility attributes by its rating. It cannot be combined with other augmentations to the muscles, including muscle augmentation or muscle toner bioware.
Looks like replacements stack with superthyroid gland.
Title: Re: Superthyroid gland
Post by: Hobbes on <11-28-18/1934:55>
Juicer build:  Narco, Kamikaze, Betameth and Superthyroid Gland.  +4 Str, + 4 Reaction, +3 Agility, +3 Body, +2 Intuition and Willpower, +2d6 Initiative.  160Kish Nuyen and Restricted Gear, and you've got your stats and Initiative covered.  Frees up quite a bit if your Samurai can get by with B resources.  C resources if you go with a Used Superthyroid Gland, which is great for an Ork or Dwarf build.

I considered playing such a character but realized I didn't have anywhere near the energy level required to RP properly.  But a 5 Edge Ork with ridiculous stats, hyperactive murder machine has to be a thing for someone....