Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: Triskavanski on <05-27-15/2256:32>
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Well getting this started here quickly. There's one I've noticed already,
Misread Marks
Duration is Permanent however it says it lasts a certain period of time. As far As I know there is nothing out there that is permanent but temporary in this sort of fashion. I believe the complex form is actually suppose to be Duration Instant, similar to a number of other effects (Such as Derezz, Transcend Grid) that have a specific duration.
Derezz
Perhaps not an error, but as written it states it does 1 box of matrix damage per net hit, similar to Resonance spike, but for the cost of 2 fade the one point of firewall loss is pretty weak. Perhaps it was suppose to do 1 box of matrix damage and one point of firewall loss per net hit.
MMRI: This is just a reprint of MoM with some added clarification to exclude the datajack and datacable. One other other should obliviously be something else, like how Authoritative Command was printed twice, with different rules, and slightly similar effects.
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I'll just copy mine over from the other thread...
(p. 180) Illegal Actions on p. 180 states failed Attack actions now alert the owner of the target icon. Only failed Sleaze actions explicitly caused this alert in the past.
(p. 182) The final game information box of the cybercombat scenario has a few issues.
1) The security spider uses Edge for Second Chance. It notes that he gets seven successes, but Second Chance doesn't act as a limit breaker. With his Attack attribute of 4, he would have been limited to 4 successes.
2) In that same paragraph, it appears Haywire only resists the spider's Data Spike with the initial opposed test, but doesn't roll the Matrix Damage resistance. I'm not 100% sure on that since it states she resists with Willpower, but that isn't used for any part of the Data Spike test, either the opposed test or the matrix damage test (It would be used to resist Biofeedback damage, but that doesn't come up). I think Armor and Shell are only applicable to the Matrix Damage resistance test in this scenario, so maybe that's what she rolled?
3) I also think Haywire is doing too much damage in the final paragraph. Her Attack attribute is 5, she has a MARK on the spider (+2), and three net hits (+3) for a total DV of 10. While she was running Hammer and Decryption at one point in time, she had Configured her deck for defense before she made the final attack.
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p. 178: Under Simple Matrix Actions, both Matrix Perception and Matrix Search list the limit for their respective tests as [Device Rating] instead of [Data Processing].
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I wonder if simple matrix actions means the things.. are simple actions. Or just actions that are easy to use (But are still complex actions.)
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In the advanced programs, ones based off of autosofts (Abduction, Spotter, WTLM) have the limitation "The [base program] rating must be at least as high as the AI's Depth". This means that an AI with a Depth of 7 (obtainable with Exceptional Entity) or more can no longer use these Advanced programs since the maximum program rating is 6. Is this the intent?
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I wonder if simple matrix actions means the things.. are simple actions. Or just actions that are easy to use (But are still complex actions.)
In the context of the heading and text, I think it is supposed to be "non-game-term simple" rather than Simple Action vs. Complex Action. It's almost like an update to the Matrix Actions for the Non-Hacker sidebar from the core book.
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I've got one.
Page 116, under the header Hitchhiker Damage the book makes reference to an echo called "Resonance Hitchhiker", supposedly on page 258 of SR5.
EDIT: I realize this must mean "Resonance [Program]" taken for Hitchiker. This is pretty unclear...
Also, minor grammatical error: Page 117, Minor and Severe Variances; "When you make a minor variance, the Foundation makes a Variance Test. The threshold for a Variance Test is always 4. On a minor variance, the dice pool is only the host's Firewall rating. On a severe variance, the dice pool is Rating + Firewall." This section should instead begin with "When you make a variance,"
Also, they don't explain how often you would do such a roll. I ask because, many of the examples of variances are not doing a thing. Would you simply get one roll when you first entered (or when you stopped doing a thing)? Would it be every combat turn? Every pass or action you take that isn't that thing? For these variances, imagine the book's example of "a dark plain where everyone is bleeding" and assume the players, for whatever reason, are not catching on that they need to look like they are bleeding constantly. How often would this trigger a Variance Test?
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Program Cat's Paw (pg 56) replaces Data Spike damage with a dice pool modifier. Program Tantrum (pg 57) replaces they damage with a Nausea effect. If both are on your deck, can they be stacked?
Recovering a file (pg 56 under Shredder) is unusual in having a non Matrix Attribute as it's limit. Computer + Logic [Data Processing] would fit the pattern better.
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So found this..
Chatty is located under AI qualities, though it seems to be more than just AI. Particularly because it talks about communicating via AR and VR through anonymity. Its also the only quality in there that makes no mention of "The AI."
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One potential errata on commlink dongles -
There's a 2 next to the rating in the price. This feels like to me it was either a) an accidental inclusion or b) meant to be a square.
Accidental Inclusion or Deliberate Multiplication
I don't feel this would be it, as it would simply be Rating x 3000 or Rating x 6000, depending. If this is the case, the price seems a touch low - a renraku sensei could be modified to have a sleaze of 1 and an attack of 4 for about 14k - all inclusive. Compared to a Microdeck Summit, that's a steal.
Square
This is the one I feel that it should be. That same rating 4 Sleaze dongle would be 48k. Added to the cost of the Sensei in the example above, that comes to about 50k, inclusive. That's 8k off a deck you can't reconfigure or run a lot of programs on. Much more reasonable and in balance imho.
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It's been confirmed by people with connections that it's supposed to be R^2.
(not sure on how official that is as of now, but at least intent is clear).
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MMRI: this also has...
This provides the same effects as a control rig (p. 452, SR5), without the free datajack and datacable.
Should be This provides the same effects as a control rig (p. 452, SR5), without the free datajack and datacable cable.
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In the story on page 87, second column, Zoe gets a mark on the door, and then tries to spoof command it open (twice). I assume, as is consistent with previous actions, she is actually trying to control device.
Can we get clarification whether program carrier works with a commlink? Right now it seems unclear.
Also, as an errata, can we fix smoke and mirrors, which is very overpowered with Chrome flesh antennas now?
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In the story on page 87, second column, Zoe gets a mark on the door, and then tries to spoof command it open (twice). I assume, as is consistent with previous actions, she is actually trying to control device.
You are correct, thanks for spotting that
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In the advanced programs, ones based off of autosofts (Abduction, Spotter, WTLM) have the limitation "The [base program] rating must be at least as high as the AI's Depth". This means that an AI with a Depth of 7 (obtainable with Exceptional Entity) or more can no longer use these Advanced programs since the maximum program rating is 6. Is this the intent?
Since only AIs with Pilot Origins (which costs at least 8 Karma) are allowed to use autosofts, they cannot have Exceptional Entity at the same time without exceeding the 25 Karma limit for positive qualities.
Long story cut short: AIs with Exceptional Entity are not meant to use autosofts ;D.
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None of those Traits are specifically said to only be available at chargen.
As such, no one stops you from grabbing the trait afterwards.
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None of those Traits are specifically said to only be available at chargen.
As such, no one stops you from grabbing the trait afterwards.
I stand corrected. That didn't occur to me (I guess because no one in my games has ever bought a positive quality after chargen).
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Hi to all,
i need some clarification. Is is possible to install and! use the Modul program carrier in non-cyberdeck-devices?
CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
I need help ;)
Best regards Max
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CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
You can also run cyberprograms on RCC's, not just decks. But if you're talking commlinks; yes, you can use program carrier modules on commlinks too. Programs normally can't be run because commlinks have no program capacity, but in the case of program carrier modules, it's the module that holds the program and does a bulk of the work.
There are still some outstanding questions about them, but the basics of being able to run them on commlinks has been pretty well settled, with dev confirmation.
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CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
You can also run cyberprograms on RCC's, not just decks. But if you're talking commlinks; yes, you can use program carrier modules on commlinks too. Programs normally can't be run because commlinks have no program capacity, but in the case of program carrier modules, it's the module that holds the program and does a bulk of the work.
There are still some outstanding questions about them, but the basics of being able to run them on commlinks has been pretty well settled, with dev confirmation.
thanks Top Dog,
do you have some links, where could i find the dev confirmation about the basics.
best regards Max
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CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
You can also run cyberprograms on RCC's, not just decks. But if you're talking commlinks; yes, you can use program carrier modules on commlinks too. Programs normally can't be run because commlinks have no program capacity, but in the case of program carrier modules, it's the module that holds the program and does a bulk of the work.
There are still some outstanding questions about them, but the basics of being able to run them on commlinks has been pretty well settled, with dev confirmation.
thanks Top Dog,
do you have some links, where could i find the dev confirmation about the basics.
best regards Max
Granted.
You can run one cyberprogram via a Program Carrier on a commlink. I didn't write that chapter, so I don't know what the author's intent was when it comes to running Virtual Machine with two additional cyberprograms, but my educated guess would be no. I don't allow that at my table, fwiw.
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CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
You can also run cyberprograms on RCC's, not just decks. But if you're talking commlinks; yes, you can use program carrier modules on commlinks too. Programs normally can't be run because commlinks have no program capacity, but in the case of program carrier modules, it's the module that holds the program and does a bulk of the work.
There are still some outstanding questions about them, but the basics of being able to run them on commlinks has been pretty well settled, with dev confirmation.
thanks Top Dog,
do you have some links, where could i find the dev confirmation about the basics.
best regards Max
Granted.
You can run one cyberprogram via a Program Carrier on a commlink. I didn't write that chapter, so I don't know what the author's intent was when it comes to running Virtual Machine with two additional cyberprograms, but my educated guess would be no. I don't allow that at my table, fwiw.
Thank you very much kinkaid. Is it possible to ask the author of that chapter ::) 8)
best regards Max
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Here's another bit of errata for you.
Data Trails, pg 62. Commlink Dongles
(Rating)2 x 3,000¥
Does that mean Rating squared? Rating x 2 x 3,000 ?
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Here's another bit of errata for you.
Data Trails, pg 62. Commlink Dongles
(Rating)2 x 3,000¥
Does that mean Rating squared? Rating x 2 x 3,000 ?
I think the developers have weighed in that it's intended to be Rating squared * 3000, but the official errata missed that missing and has it as Rating * 2 * 3000.
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Here's another bit of errata for you.
Data Trails, pg 62. Commlink Dongles
(Rating)2 x 3,000Â¥
Does that mean Rating squared? Rating x 2 x 3,000 ?
I think the developers have weighed in that it's intended to be Rating squared * 3000, but the official errata missed that missing and has it as Rating * 2 * 3000.
this are really good information, where can i find these official errata?
Kind regards Max
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I think one of the other guys mentioned the layout issue that caused the 2 to drop in the original DT thread. It's Rating^2(3,000).
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I think one of the other guys mentioned the layout issue that caused the 2 to drop in the original DT thread. It's Rating^2(3,000).
So why not do what they did for Focus formula in the Core? It very clearly says (Force x Force) so there's no misunderstanding.
Still, I suppose that's easier to accept at the table. Here I was thinking you could make a 0/6/7/7 Comm Deck for a mere 45,000 or so. Although the ~120,000 is still far less than a comparable Cyberdeck.
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So why not do what they did for Focus formula in the Core?
Established standard terms should be a thing. It just doesn't seem to be a thing all writers agree on.
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Standard terms for ShadowRun would be awesome, bit standard math terms are easy to use and nearly everyone knows them. (Rating*Rating)*3000 is very different than (Rating)2*3000. The second implies times 2 not squared while the first is the same as squared.
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Standard terms for ShadowRun would be awesome, bit standard math terms are easy to use and nearly everyone knows them. (Rating*Rating)*3000 is very different than (Rating)2*3000. The second implies times 2 not squared while the first is the same as squared.
Yes, but the second one is just lazy math and doesn't make sense to write. If you meant to use Rating * 2 * 3000, why not just write it as Rating * 6000?
Having the extra two there makes more sense if it was accidentally not placed as a superscript, or (Rating)2 * 3000.
Now I agree, if they have previously set the precedent of writing out squared as (Rating * Rating) * X, it may have been easier to go on using that, but if they are worried about space and formating, Rating2 * X is easier to fit in the chart.
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Hi to all,
CRB RAW tells us, programs only in cyberdecks. DT tells us, all cyberdeckmoduls could install in all devices.
You can also run cyberprograms on RCC's, not just decks. But if you're talking commlinks; yes, you can use program carrier modules on commlinks too. Programs normally can't be run because commlinks have no program capacity, but in the case of program carrier modules, it's the module that holds the program and does a bulk of the work.
There are still some outstanding questions about them, but the basics of being able to run them on commlinks has been pretty well settled, with dev confirmation.
thanks Top Dog,
do you have some links, where could i find the dev confirmation about the basics.
best regards Max
Granted.
You can run one cyberprogram via a Program Carrier on a commlink. I didn't write that chapter, so I don't know what the author's intent was when it comes to running Virtual Machine with two additional cyberprograms, but my educated guess would be no. I don't allow that at my table, fwiw.
Thank you very much kinkaid. Is it possible to ask the author of that chapter ::) 8)
best regards Max
@Kincaid,
could you ask the author of that chapter or could you tell the author, that we need his or her help :) ;)
kind regards Max
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Going to jump in on this, since I had a very similar situation come up last game:
Basically, my player wanted to use Program Carrier modules containing "Virtual Machine" on almost every piece of his gear, and load everything up with Wrapper and SNeak programs (to become nigh-on indetectable); arguing that you could do this on any 'device'.
Now, the way I understand it (and also the way I momentarily rule it in game), you can indeed add a module to any device, but:
- Decks, and decks only can run common/hacking cyberprograms. (RCC's as well, but they have an extremely limited selection they can run.)
- Commlinks can only run commlink apps and no cyberprograms.
- Other devices simply cannot run programs at all.
Hence adding a module containing 1-2 programs slots to a device that cannot run programs simply has no effects. A module added to a comlink would give said comlink 2 extra comlink app slots.
But then I gave it another thought, and I wondered: "What's the point of adding modules to another device than a deck beyond hardening it against damage/turning it into a grenade?"
Could anyone clarify the situation a bit for me, please?
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Basically all they need to do that sort of thing is Stealth and Wrapper on the PAN master. It has been established that a Comlink can have Virtual Device loaded on a Program Module, this may seem exploitive, but remember it does make the device more vulnerable to being bricked.
Once the PAN master has access to them any device slaved to it will have the Sleaze bonus (much like anything slaved to a Cyberdeck) and the Comlink or RCC can then change the device icon of anything slaved to it (again, much like a Cyberdeck can use wrapper to change the icon of anything slaved to it.)
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Need to access the Matrix in
the morning and your commlink’s at the cleaners? No
problem, with a few mods and a Hardware test, you can
be surfing the Matrix on your toaster.
Data Trails p60
Security Officer 1: Sigma 3 give me status on the intruders
Security Officer 3: Sir, we have found the intruder, he just took out Sigma 4,...$^%&$&^you wouldn't believe this sir, scan shows that the intruder is using the R1000 Happy Pancake Maker.
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- Decks, and decks only can run common/hacking cyberprograms. (RCC's as well, but they have an extremely limited selection they can run.)
Actually, that's not entirely true: A lot of people see that sidebar on RCCs and read those listed prigrams as the only programs that a RCC can run. In point of fact, those are just some of the programs that a RCC can run. You are generally missing a couple of stats that a true cyberdeck comes with, but with the correct mod you can add either sleaze or an attack rating (and increase that new rating a point), and then run programs that need that added rating as well.
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Hi to all,
It's true, most of the people use VM on commlinks, or rcc. But without official errata it is interpretation or houseruling :(
Kind regards Max
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Something I noticed recently while making an AI character. P156 at the end of the paragraph about "AI Vehicle Combat" it says
For more information about AI skill tests, see the table below.
No such table exists anywhere near that statement.
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Something I noticed recently while making an AI character. P156 at the end of the paragraph about "AI Vehicle Combat" it says
For more information about AI skill tests, see the table below.
No such table exists anywhere near that statement.
In addition to this, there is also another discrepancy
AIs running on a vehicle use their Pilot rating in place of Data Processing to determine Initiative, Handling in place of their Physical Limit, and can opt to use their Sensor rating in place of their Mental Limit. Pilot is also used in place of Device Rating for determining the Matrix Condition Monitor of a vehicle. They determine their initiative score with (Intuition + Pilot + 4D6). Only AIs with the Pilot Origins quality may use autosofts in place of active skills, they also use their Depth in place of the Pilot rating of vehicles/drones they are running on.
Does this imply that an AI with Pilot Origins replaces Pilot with their Depth for Initiatve and Matrix Condition Monitor?
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Page 3, change “The All-Seeing GOD” to “The All-Seeing Eye of GOD”
Page 6, change “sank” to “sunk”
Page 18, change “largeley” to “largely”
Page 26, change “ourselves” to “itself”
Page 28, change “Daae’s” to “Daee’s”
Page 30, change “in you” to “on you”
Page 30, change “studly caps” to “StudlyCaps”
Page 30, change “over complicated” to “overcomplicated” (one word, no space)
Page 31, change “thing sat” to “things at”
Page 31, change “spend our wheels” to “spin our wheels”
Page 31, change “all how gaze” to “all who gaze”
Page 32, change “schools’s” to “school’s”
Page 33, change “range of hackerdom” to “ranks of hackerdom”
Page 35, change “and automated” to “an automated”
Page 35, change “with doom enough” to “soon enough”
Page 39, change “others activities” to “other activities”
Page 41, change “You can just” to “You can’t just”
Page 41, change “and stealthy” to “are stealthy”
Page 41, change “concept” to “contact”
Page 42, change “Technicolor Dreams” to “Technicolor Streams” … twice.
Page 42, change “Thee” to “The”
Page 45, change “dataHaven” to “datahaven”
Page 82, change “then we could have ever imagined” to “than we ever could have imagined”
Page 88, italicize “The Wizard of Oz”
Page 102, change “two Standard Security Spider” to “two Standard Security Spiders”
Page 110, in the Foundation Attributes table, swap Data Processing and Sleaze (Transitive Property of Attributes: in Astral Space, Agility maps to Logic and Reaction to Intuition; in a Living Persona, Logic maps to Data Processing and Intuition to Sleaze; therefore Agility maps to Data Processing and Reaction to Sleaze)
Page 113, change “access” to “accesses”
Page 114, change “with a even mediocre rating” to “with even a mediocre rating”
Page 147 (E-ghost) make “Hello World!” proper case, not all-caps
Page 148–149, italicize book titles in the qualities tables
Page 153, change “Spoof” to “Spoof Command” … and again on page 154
Page 155, change “WATLAM” to “WTLM”
Page 158, change “useable” to “usable”
Page 158, lowercase “grids, vehicles”
Page 159, change “POKE” to “Poke”
Page 160 (Rust), change “reduces” to “reduce”
Page 162, change “play it up its affects” to “play up its effects”
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In addition to this, there is also another discrepancy
AIs running on a vehicle use their Pilot rating in place of Data Processing to determine Initiative, Handling in place of their Physical Limit, and can opt to use their Sensor rating in place of their Mental Limit. Pilot is also used in place of Device Rating for determining the Matrix Condition Monitor of a vehicle. They determine their initiative score with (Intuition + Pilot + 4D6). Only AIs with the Pilot Origins quality may use autosofts in place of active skills, they also use their Depth in place of the Pilot rating of vehicles/drones they are running on.
Does this imply that an AI with Pilot Origins replaces Pilot with their Depth for Initiatve and Matrix Condition Monitor?
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I just stumbled over this as well. This conflicts also with the home device rule where you can enhance the pilot rating by one point. As written dept would overwrite this change.
Inserting a "can" use their Dept in place of Pilot rating would solve this.
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None of those Traits are specifically said to only be available at chargen.
As such, no one stops you from grabbing the trait afterwards.
I stand corrected. That didn't occur to me (I guess because no one in my games has ever bought a positive quality after chargen).
An AI purchases programs with karma instead of credits, so I would assume you would purchase each autosoft for 5 karma. Now you have a problem in that the book doesn't say what rating the autosoft would be. You could say you need 5 karma per rating but that would be far more expensive than buying the relevant skill considering all the different models of vehicles/weapons the skills cover versus the autosofts. I suggest that the autosoft's rating equals the AI's depth.
Edit: Maybe each rating of an autosoft should be purchased separately with the AI's depth as rating maximum. That way an AI could load a rating appropriate to the device rating of the drone or RCC its running on.
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That;s largely irrelevant as Pilot gets replaced with Depth.
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Only for AI's with the Pilot Origins quality. AI's without still use the pilot rating of the drone they're running on for the autosoft limit (+1 or +2 depending on optimization and quality choice) so they may need to buy a rating lower than their depth.
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Paying Karma for an autosoft at a set rating would mean that you'd need to repurchase it with Karma if you wanted it at a higher rating, which is even worse than having to pay Karma for cyberprograms.
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Got a couple of questions regarding the AI section. Specifically the 5 karma per program section. That seems to make things pretty dang rough for AIs out of the gate who wish to be deckers or more specifically, riggers.
First: What is the rating of these 5 karma programs? I'm assuming it grows with the rating of Depth what with the cost for 5 karma being at a 10k value and a max value of an autosoft being 3k. With the 3x cost for a program, are we also, while looking at the verbiage of Pilot Origins, thinking that they might become adaptable? As in, I can use X autosoft on any type of drone/weapon I want (with Pilot Origins)? (I am strongly thinking that the answer is no, but I like to hope) "The AI is also capable of loading, converting (the word I was hoping means I can convert autosofts to be used on multiple platforms), and using drone autosofts."
Otherwise, you're going to be paying something along the lines of 15(30 total if you pick up Clearsight, EW, Smartsoft, but that 15 won't multiply) karma per drone type. 30-45k as opposed to 9k. More if you are going to be loading a copy of your program into another drone. I'm assuming I can't just copy a program I made on my own over to another drone, in this instance. Can I? That'll bring the costs down a bit.
Anyhow, thanks for any clarity on this as the rules seem to be... interesting for AIs.