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Sum to 10 - Human Street Sam/B&E Guy

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halflingmage

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« Reply #15 on: <04-05-15/2014:24> »
Getting to the point where your endurance is that close to human maximum (especially playing a Human), their strength is naturally going to increase along with it. It is nowhere near out of line to expect a character with that level of endurance/toughness to have at least average Strength.
It's a good thing that the chargen rules don't require people to tie those stats together, then. If the writers had intended that, they would have written in such a rule. But they didn't.

It always makes me nervous to agree with Whiskyjack, but in this case he is dead on.  There is nothing in the rules about having a low str and high body.  As I pointed out, both stats figure into how "strong" the character is (see the lift and carry check).  This character punches like a junior high chess club groupie, I will give you that.  But in terms of general physicality he is basically average, or slightly below (str has a large impact on physical limit).  Just like a low logic would not prevent a high charisma or intuition, a low strength does not prevent a high body.  And I personally don't have much trouble coming up with a character concept that fits the numbers. 

8-bit

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« Reply #16 on: <04-05-15/2039:38> »
This character punches like a junior high chess club groupie, I will give you that.

Objection! As someone who used to be a junior high chess club groupie, I ... basically punched like that.

Nevermind.

8-bit

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« Reply #17 on: <04-05-15/2109:05> »
Okay, I'd like people's opinion on what I should do.

I've worked out the math, and Resources B seems very appealing to me. I have two options.



Option A

Drop Metatype priority to D. That makes me lose only 2 Edge, which is very simple.

The problem I have with it is that 2 Edge is huge. Being able to roll 26 exploding dice or whatever is amazing. 7 Edge is a huge safety net, and allows me to do pretty incredible things with this character. While I've never been one to spam Edge often, 7 Edge means that I can still remain conservative, but can spend an Edge or three without worrying too much.

Option B

Drop Attributes to B. This loses a whole 4 Attribute Points, which is very painful.

My first thought is either dropping Body to 3 and Willpower to 3; or Reaction to 3 and Willpower to 3. Neither of which seems very good.



My dilemma is this.

Is 7 Edge, as opposed to 5 Edge, worth 4 Attribute Points? My first instinct says no, but I'm actually really on the fence about this one.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #18 on: <04-05-15/2149:15> »
5 vs 7 Edge isn't going to hurt THAT much unless you pre-edge a lot more than you post-Edge, and you don't have pools that really depend on pre-edging to be successful.

If you want to drop Attributes I'd drop BOD and WIL over REA and WIL, and make up for the BOD points with Bone Lacing/Aug.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #19 on: <04-06-15/1900:45> »
It always makes me nervous to agree with Whiskyjack
What exactly are you implying here?  :'(
Playability > verisimilitude.

8-bit

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« Reply #20 on: <04-06-15/1915:51> »
All right; another round of editing.

- Dropped Metatype to Priority D
- Raised Resources to Priority B
- Edge dropped from 7 to 5
- Dropped Natural Athlete and Common Sense
- Picked up Restricted Gear - Alphaware Titanium Bone Lacing
- Dropped 4 Flashbangs, 4 High-Explosive, and 4 Fragmentation Grenades
- Picked up 5 doses of Kamikaze
- Changed Augmentations

From:
Used Rating 4 Cybereyes w/ Flare Compensation, Low-Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 3, Vision Magnification
Used Datajack
Used Muscle Replacement 3

To:
Alphaware Titanium Bone Lacing
Alphaware Rating 3 Cybereyes w/  Flare Compensation, Low-Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2, Vision Magnification
Alphaware Datajack
Alphaware Muscle Replacement 2
Alphaware Reaction Enhancers 2
Alphaware Wired Reflexes 1

- Essence dropped from 1.5000 to 0.7200
- Remaining money changed from 219 + (4d6 x 100) to 319 + (4d6 x 100)
« Last Edit: <04-06-15/1926:50> by 8-bit »

Chaos Monkey

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« Reply #21 on: <04-06-15/2138:18> »
I'd try to find some room for the Hardware skill (and that Log 2 hurts a little there) and a Hardware Tool Kit.  Otherwise all you're going to do is crack the case of the maglock and leave it up to your hacker to deal with the Anti-tamper device and to then actually override the lock (if they don't just hack the thing instead).  And don't forget the role  of the Hardware skill in getting past pressure pads and triplines. 

Your Palming dicepool is not all that great considering how it's an opposed test (Would you trust a dicepool of 10 to sneak past most semi-competent rent-a-cops?).  You may be better off clubbing the guard over the head to get that keycard rather than trying to sneak it off his lanyard (Or else I'll wager that you'll be spending edge frequently on palming attempts).  I'd move those skill points to Hardware instead, that way you'd have a dice pool of 6 (2 Log, 2 Ranks, 2 Tool Kit) - not great, but that should be enough to crack most maglock circuits in 2-3 minutes and to deal with R1/R2 Anti-tamper circuits most of the time.

All that said, B&E is very much a secondary thing for this character, so you could always use karma in play to round out that side of things.

Don't forget the fun B&E toys like Miniwelders, Sequencers, Key Card Copiers and so on.  Of course you can just pick those up in play too.
That R6 medkit is a big bulky briefcase.  Drop it to a pocket sized R3 unit instead and maybe divert the cash to pick up another B&E tool or two.



8-bit

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« Reply #22 on: <04-06-15/2340:35> »
I'd try to find some room for the Hardware skill (and that Log 2 hurts a little there) and a Hardware Tool Kit.  Otherwise all you're going to do is crack the case of the maglock and leave it up to your hacker to deal with the Anti-tamper device and to then actually override the lock (if they don't just hack the thing instead).  And don't forget the role  of the Hardware skill in getting past pressure pads and triplines.

Quote from: Core Rule Book of SR5; page 363
Powered magnetic locks, maglocks, are widespread in 2075 and come in a wide range of sophistication. Maglock “keys” can be physical (keypad, swipe card, proximity card, memory string), biometric (see below), or any combination thereof. Maglocks are often accessible via the local network (wired or wireless) and may be monitored by a security hacker/rigger. Maglock systems often log all usages, keeping track of the time, date, and identity of each user. The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts. This requires a successful Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test. If all else fails, the case can be smashed or shot off; treat the case as if it has a Barrier rating equal to the maglock rating. Overzealous attempts to break the case may harm the electronics inside. Re-assembling the case afterwards requires the same test. Some maglock systems come equipped with anti-tamper systems, rated between 1 and 4. In order to bypass the anti-tamper circuits, an additional Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (anti- tamper system rating) Test must be made. If this fails, an alarm is triggered.

It's all based off of Locksmith. Hardware is not needed for anything. It can be helpful, but it's not necessary.

Basically, all locking mechanisms can be disabled without Hardware. There's no way I can bypass sensors and such, but that's a thing that a decker can do with ease. I don't worry about it with this type of character.

I do think I need an Electronics kit though, so I'll need to spare some nuyen for that.

Your Palming dicepool is not all that great considering how it's an opposed test (Would you trust a dicepool of 10 to sneak past most semi-competent rent-a-cops?).  You may be better off clubbing the guard over the head to get that keycard rather than trying to sneak it off his lanyard (Or else I'll wager that you'll be spending edge frequently on palming attempts).  I'd move those skill points to Hardware instead, that way you'd have a dice pool of 6 (2 Log, 2 Ranks, 2 Tool Kit) - not great, but that should be enough to crack most maglock circuits in 2-3 minutes and to deal with R1/R2 Anti-tamper circuits most of the time.

A palming pool of 10 isn't half bad. Assuming Perception 6 and Intuition 4 (which is generous), then the dice pools are equal. The point of palming is that I can use it if I need to. It's not something that will get a ton of use regularly.

Don't forget the fun B&E toys like Miniwelders, Sequencers, Key Card Copiers and so on.  Of course you can just pick those up in play too.
That R6 medkit is a big bulky briefcase.  Drop it to a pocket sized R3 unit instead and maybe divert the cash to pick up another B&E tool or two.

Miniwelders are nice, but not necessary, and all those other things aren't completely necessary either. They also, as you pointed out, can be picked up in play. The medkit is for car/motorcycle/home. It's not something that I'm carrying around.

Chaos Monkey

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« Reply #23 on: <04-07-15/2050:47> »
Hmm, it seems you are correct, the secondary roll is generally another Locksmithing roll. Though honestly a Hardware test makes more sense to me for electronic locking systems... but hey, I didn't write the rules, and I'm all for streamlining skill requirements for each archetype.  If I were running a game I'd probably allow the use of an Electronics toolkit to assist on the phase two of the bypass but that's clearly getting into House Rules territory. On the bright side, my own character (a Face/B&E) is a lot better at B&E than I thought!

But there are a few very good uses for Hardware as a B&E :

Quote from: Core Rule Book; page 364
Good lighting, both indoor and outdoor, can be avfurther deterrent to intrusion, as it raises the chances for security to spot unauthorized personnel. Lights
are usually controlled via wireless to activate at predetermined times (like outdoor lights, which are only needed at night) or events (like when a sensor detects
movement in its area; see Sensors below). Indoor lighting can either be manually controlled with a regular on/off switch, or programmed to respond to motion
or daily activity (such as the start of the business day).Most switches can be subverted with a Hardware + Logic [Mental] (5, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test. Most lighting is incandescent, fluorescent, LED, or white halogen quartz, though occasionally gas-discharge may be used for high-wattage exterior lighting (taking 5 minutes to warm up).

Alarms, a form of passive security, are one of the most basic elements of a security system. Alarms serve to alert guards, security hackers/riggers, or emote monitoring services that something is amiss and must be dealt with. Alarms may be silent, alerting only the security or police in order to catch intruders unaware, or they may go off as flashing lights and loud warning klaxons that resound throughout the building. Individual components of a security system may be alarmed, like a fire door that triggers a warning bell when opened. Many alarms, particularly on doors and windows, are based on electrical circuits. While closed, the circuit is complete and no alarm will sound. If the door or window is opened, however, the circuit is broken, triggering the alarm. Windows may have alarm circuits wired into the glass, so if the glass is broken an alarm goes off. To bypass such alarms, the circuit’s electrical contacts must be fooled while the door/window is open. This requires a Hardware + Logic [Mental] (5, 1 minute) Extended Test, though depending on the design it may be more difficult.

With all of that said though, having reflected a bit on the matter today, I think I am inclined to say you should keep the Palming at 2, if only because it really helps with concealing weapons and pilfered items which is a real bonus for your primary role anyhow.  Concealment bonuses from holsters/armor are a plus, and generally you are much more likely to be dealing with the opponents only passively using Perception (i.e. buying hits). Pick up a few ranks of Hardware (again, really only need a couple plus a toolkit)  with Karma earned in play and you should be fine.  Leave the alarms and such to the hackers until then.

Also I would suggest picking up all the fun gear that can help with climbing at some point.  Nothing says style points like scampering up the side of a building or rappelling off the roof (or down an elevator shaft).  Besides, how can you go all Batman without a grapple gun (let's face it, Batman is a Sam/B&E). Again, it can certainly wait a few runs when you have some free cash burning a hole in your credstick.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #24 on: <04-07-15/2122:53> »
This character doesn't have the LOG to do that stuff without Edge. Those are jobs for a decker plugged via cable into a security camera to subvert the host defenses and switching them off while the B&E guys sneaks around inside.
Playability > verisimilitude.