[Ricochet]

Since this will be my first year doing convention missions for Shadowrun, I'm wondering how twinked (optimized) the characters will likely be at any table I'm at?

1) Will most people be specialists?
2) Will most people have every legal piece of ware and magic available to throw max dice in their specialty?
3) Is there room for more "RP" and generalist type characters?

I'm much more into building the concept and character first, and then trying to fit stats and gear to the character even if that isn't close to optimized.  That is fine within the groups I usually play with, but having not played at a con in 14 years, I'm wondering if I should be expecting much more munchkinism these days.

[KarmaInferno]

Some people optimize their characters all to hell.

Others barely at all.

You will run into both extremes. Most folks will be somewhere in the middle.

Play what you like, but it is a good idea to have a couple of specialties. Being a one trick pony can be bad if everyone else shows up as the same pony.

Also, there's always room for RP. Even on hyperoptimized rules monstrosities.


-k

[Tsuzua]

SR5 is coming out so there's going to be a huge reset of everyone's character. My guess is the state of the optimization will be around the "buy a high skill level and attribute at your job" level of optimization. It'll depend on how much things (gear stats, skill list, magic) were directly ported over from SR4A.

In my experience at Origins over the last few years, most people are either using the sample characters or slightly altered versions of them. There are optimizers out there, but generally everyone can contribute if that's your worry. SR is a setup where compartive advantage holds true so if you're competent (8+ dice) at a given role, you'll find a use. You might be part of the B/E team, provide magical support, bust some heads, be part of a two man con, or whatever.

[Ricochet]

8-10 dice for tasks is usually where I play, which is why I have been getting more concerned the more I read dumpshock and here about how characters get built.

I realize that there will be a reset starting at origins, but I figure the most hardcore people will start at origins (having some karma advancement) in addition to how much difference you can really put into characters by trying to stretch every advantage out of the build system vs trying to make well rounded characters, or more RP oriented characters.

Based on the latest preview of SR5, it sounded like it may be karmagen instead of BP as the default mode.  I'm actually hoping that missions follows suit and adopts that with the reboot.  You can still min/max, but you don't create all of the long term issues that BP do.

The danger of niche characters all picking the same niche is one of the things that concerned me as a possibility for GenCon.

[Bull]

SR5's character creation will have a little less focus on optimization, I hope.  But we'll see.  There will still be some of that, of course, there always is.

I'll have the FAQ up soon, and that will have some clarification.  My suggestion is always for a more balanced, well rounded character.  Because at a convention game, you never know what you're going to get saddled with as far as other players, and it really sucks when your combat monster is as a table with 4 other combat monsters, and the only one without uncouth has zero dice in negotiation and a 3 charisma.  According the GM, we almost came out of that run owing Mr. Johnson money.

Bull

[Ricochet]

Great to hear on the FAQ. 

I've always felt that way about characters in general.  I've never done a Shadowrun character built with the group, even when I know the players in the group.  We usually (with some exceptions where some characters were meant to have a past) walk into the first session not knowing the party makeup, so I always liked being able to be at least somewhat competent in as many situations as possible.

The more I read online to catch up on current stuff, the more I've been feeling like that is the minority that gets shouted down. 

On a similar topic - I probably will have to choose between playing through CMP 1-4 or CMP 5-8 which look to be two separate storylines.  I'm having a lot of trouble trying to get sessions 1-4 to fit in order, but 5-8 seem to fit nicely.  (I'm looking at playing in the order 2, 3, 4, 1 if I play 1-4 now)
F 12 - 1, 2, 4
F 16 - 3
F 20 - NA
S 08 - NA
S 12 - NA
S 16 - 1, 2, 4
S 20 - 3
Su 10 - 1

So a few questions on that...
If I start at #5 (which I'm assuming is a new storyline) am I missing out on a lot by not doing 1-4 first?  (Or are they totally independent from each other?)

Is it likely that more people playing 5-8 have already done 1-4 so I'm more likely putting myself behind?  (I'm assuming 1-4 are being run at Origins, and 5-8 aren't.)

Is there likely to be more sessions added on top of the list posted on these forums?  (To be able to try and get in order better.)

Does order matter much at all?  Having now played through some of the season 1 missions this past week, I know going out of order would have been strange there, but not sure if the convention packs would have the same issue.

[Dinendae]

According the GM, we almost came out of that run owing Mr. Johnson money.

Bull

Sounds like the mission we just did last Monday (SRM 04-07); to get everything we needed in order to accomplish part of the mission, we ended up having our pay reduced by over half.n

[RHat]

SR5's character creation will have a little less focus on optimization, I hope.  But we'll see.  There will still be some of that, of course, there always is.

Honestly, I figure SR5 is gonna give optimizers more to do - there will be a balance between how many dice you have and what your limit is that will cause the value of any given investment to shift.

[Ricochet]

I'm fine with there being ways to optimize.  What I don't really like is having optimized throwing 3x dice vs non-optimized.  Optimizing should be small incremental increases in my book.  Not having stacks of optimizations adding more and more advantages. 

I'm hoping that the costs balance out a bit better so that there are actual tradeoffs making one choice against another instead of having "best" ways to build characters.

[RHat]

Overspecialization is already a cost.  No matter how many dice he throws, the one-trick pony is not a good character.

But the general idea of optimization in SR5 will be different, because it won't just be a matter of how many dice you throw at how many things.

[DWC]

Except that making the system more complicated by adding additional limitations to juggle will only serve to widen the gap between the carefully built, thoroughly researched character and the ones built without that level of thought.

And the properly (in my humble opinion) optimized character is as capable as the concept of him or her in your head.

[KarmaInferno]

Especially given that previously a well thought out planned character could be highly specialized in multiple directions, so as NOT to be a one-trick pony.




-k

[Wasabi]

If you want to optimize your character I suggest building in three things:

In no particular order - but all 3:
1. A way to fight (meaning to have some defense and offense so you're relevant when the soft options *cough* sometimes fail. Spirits and drones are also combat options.)
2. A way to investigate (perception, hacking databases, drones, sprites, or even contacts you know)
3. A way to help others (illusions, buffing spells, hacking cameras, counterspelling, spirits, combat drugs [K10 on the Face is always good for laughs if its a strong roleplayer as the face and if talky-bits aren't succeeding] or debuffing opponents such as with chemicals/drugs. Nausea in particular.)

If you have all three then you'll always have something to do. If the bullets are flying everywhere thats an option. If your team needs to know something you aren't doing the peepee dance waiting for bullets to start flying, and if you can support you can help any of the other runners who may themselves have that special widget to unlock a milestone.

Sure it can be tought o do all three and some players won't on purpose so they can eke that extra 1% damage but if you want top optimize I say always be able to contribute and advance the story through the actions of your character and your roleplay and you'll be golden!

Wasabi

[Tacitus05]

Pretty Much Put another way, make sure every character you make has
1. Something to do in a fight
2. Something to do in legwork
3. Something to do to support the party.

Also, if you are playing at Cons, keep in mind, you may have no clue who is sitting at the table with you. If you make a street sam, you may be at a table of ALL streets sams. That could make things difficult. An example was I was at a CMP that had 2 mystic adepts, and I was a physical adept. No one could see the Astral. Lucky for me I had "magic sense" that helped...a bit.

So, another good piece of advice? Be a "back up" character in some way. Playing a face? Not a bad idea to be a back up rigger. Street Sam? Maybe Back up B and E expert. Back up hackers and faces never seem to be a bad option. Of course, with the cost of a cyberdeck in fifth, that may no longer be possible (even the cheapest is like 50 k nuyen!)