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[SR6] Three tiny questions... (matrix damage/device, program slots, movement)

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Finstersang

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« Reply #30 on: <04-15-20/1044:15> »
@Price of Cyberjacks vs RCCs:
The most important aspect of either (IMO) is the D/F stats they bring to your Persona.  Now, RCCs are generally cheaper, and absolutely don't cost essence.  But as already pointed out, they're physically big and that poses problems if you want to smuggle them or be discreet while carrying around a giant R/C controller.  Also a problem if you want to do AR hacking while fighting.  They don't have rules for what kinds of things require two hands to use, but it strains credibility to argue that you can operate a briefcase-or-typewriter-sized comms device AND still be firing a gun at the same time.  So that's kind of a big drawback for Action Jackson deckers.

I was always under the impression that the sizes of Decks and RCCs were in the same ballpark anyways. However: so far, RCCs can´t be bought as implants...
Also, the fact that Cyberjacks can have a massive Essence impact is a big factor for more Hands-On Combat Deckers, because these want to have some Augmentations as well.

And it´s also almost impossible to make a Hacker Adept with a Cyberjack. Which is not a problem, because Hacker Adepts (and Mysads!) should be quite rare and hard to pull off properly IMO. What is a big deal is the fact that Adept Hackers could actually circumvent this by going for a RCC to get proper D/F right now.

However. One important aspect still is intact, and it's arguably the most important one.  Inarguably the most important one, if you're trying to be stealthy: Icons that are running silent are inherently suspicious.  There's a risk involved in running silent, as detection WILL raise security awareness.  The alternative is to simply NOT run silent, and hide your totally not-supposed-to-be-there drone among the overwhelming noise of millions of other icons a potential observer is also seeing.  In order to know your drone is in a place it shouldn't be, they still have to know its physical location and just spotting the matrix signal doesn't give that information away.  That information has to be learned via Trace Icon, which means they have to have gained access.  Which means they have to have suspected your drone's signal for some reason in the first place.  Why are they hacking YOUR drone's signal, when there are surely hundreds, if not thousands, of other drone signals like it?

True. It should be pointed out that not every run happens in urban areas with a convenient delivery drone fastlane above the location, though. You can´t always blend in with the crowd. And while there are no explicit rules for it, things like automated signal scans around secure locations are surely a thing.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #31 on: <04-15-20/1056:29> »
I was always under the impression that the sizes of Decks and RCCs were in the same ballpark anyways. However: so far, RCCs can´t be bought as implants...
Also, the fact that Cyberjacks can have a massive Essence impact is a big factor for more Hands-On Combat Deckers, because these want to have some Augmentations as well.

I'm fine with that.  If you want to build a hybrid sammie/decker, great.  But don't expect to be everything the Sammie is, PLUS being everything a decker is at the same time.  How's that fair to the Sammie?

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And it´s also almost impossible to make a Hacker Adept with a Cyberjack. Which is not a problem, because Hacker Adepts (and Mysads!) should be quite rare and hard to pull off properly IMO. What is a big deal is the fact that Adept Hackers could actually circumvent this by going for a RCC to get proper D/F right now.

Even moreso for mages who want to steal decker thunder.  Let the mundanes have ONE thing that magic doesn't do better?  Of course, the RCC option is a hole in that attitude.

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It should be pointed out that not every run happens in urban areas with a convenient delivery drone fastlane above the location, though. You can´t always blend in with the crowd. And while there are no explicit rules for it, things like automated signal scans around secure locations are surely a thing.

Indeed. Hiding an elephant in a herd of elephants works great most of the time.  But still it does nothing to stop your particular elephant from being seen.  So sure, sometimes there's no getting around needing to run silent.  I don't think it's a very common occurrence, but "sometimes"? Sure.

As far as CRB options go, I'm ok with the Rigger needing to get under the hacker's umbrella to successfully run silent (or alternately, buy their own cyberdeck. not that bad a choice tbh...)  Surely the Rigger book will come with expanded Attack and Sleaze options without having to outsource them to another teammate (or buy their own cyberdeck).
« Last Edit: <04-15-20/1058:33> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #32 on: <04-15-20/1100:26> »
Incidentally, the book states you can shape your icon however you want. So then the question is: How hard is it to go 'hey, that's a drone'?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #33 on: <04-15-20/1109:55> »
Incidentally, the book states you can shape your icon however you want. So then the question is: How hard is it to go 'hey, that's a drone'?

The rules about icon types are less rigid than the 5e rules that covered this.  However, pg. 173 discusses the rules that DO exist. Icons for Peronas, Devices, Files, and Hosts are discussed. It's not clear whether this is an inclusive or exhaustive list, but my suspicion is that other kinds of icons should be possible (i.e. inclusive list).  But going by the established paradigms, if drones have their own icon type, they should be identifiable as drones.  Or at least, "a drone or a vehicle".  There's no allowance given or suggested to make one type of icon appear to be another type of icon.  Even in 5e you couldn't make a thing look like another type of thing entirely without use of the Wrapper program, which wasn't included in the 6we CRB.

But, you absolutely could make your spybot's icon superficially resemble one of the Roomba drones in use by the facility you plan to infiltrate.  Or make its icon look like a soypizza delivery drone's when moving around the sprawl at large.  etc.  The GM would have to assign a threshold to see through your deception, should someone bother to take an interest in the apparent roomba or soypizza delivery drone's signal.

Edit: Now, if you take pg 173 as being an exhaustive rather than inclusive list of possible icon types, then that means drones have to be devices.  And if it's in a bucket THAT big, then sure.  Your drone's matrix icon can arguably be made to look like a can of Dragon Piss energy drink's.
« Last Edit: <04-15-20/1120:17> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Finstersang

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« Reply #34 on: <04-15-20/1347:44> »
As far as CRB options go, I'm ok with the Rigger needing to get under the hacker's umbrella to successfully run silent (or alternately, buy their own cyberdeck. not that bad a choice tbh...)  Surely the Rigger book will come with expanded Attack and Sleaze options without having to outsource them to another teammate (or buy their own cyberdeck).

Would be cool to see these alternatives in the future; but for the moment, I´m fine with Riggers being able to buy a Cyberdeck and give their Drones some Sleaze. The main balancing problem here is Hackers (ab)using RCC perks, not the other way around.

That´s where I reluctantly have to agree with Banshee that "Hybrid Personas" would be a problem. If allowed unchecked, RCCs would be the dominant choice even for the "pure" Decker builds. Not to speak about Mage/Adept/Mysads - Decker/Rigger Hyper-Hybrids. Oh. boy. While those kind of monsters shouldn´t be absolutely impossible to build, there needs to be serious drawbacks to them. With all the tools and synergies an Hermetic Mysad Decker could already bring into the Hacking game, they could absolutely outperform any Augmented Decker or Technomancer. Magicrun 6.0 - Digital Dreams. That´s one of the best reasons for that punishing Cyberjack essence cost - but the option to take an RCC instead eliminates that drawback.
« Last Edit: <04-15-20/1350:16> by Finstersang »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #35 on: <04-15-20/1402:01> »
Well, I think you're misplacing the blame on RCCs for the ability to avoid essence hits.  Frankly, if you're not going to spend the essence on a Cyberjack there's little reason to spend the nuyen on a RCC when commlinks are so, so much cheaper.  Swap your commlink and cyberdeck stats if you need D/F.  You don't NEED A/S to hack.  The intent is that yes you do need 1+ to "unlock" A/S actions, so just get a commlink with no zeros in its D/F array.  Ok, you're giving away an edge point with 3 or so Matrix Attack Rating? Great, you have Analytical Mind so you're gaining one too.  It's a wash.

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Finstersang

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« Reply #36 on: <04-15-20/1627:07> »
Analytical Mind

*Hissssssssssssssssss*

You´re right tho. Even with a cheap commlink, a cheeselord Mysad Decker could already be quite a headache  ::)
« Last Edit: <04-15-20/1630:21> by Finstersang »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #37 on: <04-15-20/1649:51> »
Yeah the more I think about it, the more going with a commlink+cyberdeck seems viable.  You don't have to swap 2 attributes at a time.  Put the cyberdeck's two values in whichever of A/S you pla on using, and into whichever of D/F you think is more necessary.  If you're going stealthy, you shouldn't need firewall so you put the Cyberdeck's values into S/D and the commlink's into A/F.  Reverse it if you're going in loud and proud and cybercombat-y.

With one of the higher values in A or S, you get a low-but-high-enough-to-deny-edge Attack Rating.  And while yes you're potentially suffering a huge linked attribute penalty, it only matters if you chose your strategy unwisely.  And since there's only 4 actions linked to either Attack or Sleaze, and two of those are the different means of gaining access and the remainder are cybercombat actions linked to Attack... you can only pick wrong if you choose stealth but end up needing to fight.

Yeah the RCC gives you options the commlink doesn't... but it's a hell of a lot of nuyen for what's in the end only a luxury.
« Last Edit: <04-15-20/1651:44> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #38 on: <04-15-20/1710:23> »
Part of that is the reduced value of Matrix attributes in 6E.  1s don't hurt quite as much as they did in 5th.  Mind you a 1 or 2 Firewall is a fairly high risk if ever a data spike does get flung your way.  And giving up Edge to a Spider in a Host seems like a very bad idea given the number of checks normally involved in a Hack.

"Re-roll 5 hits"
"Doh!"

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #39 on: <04-15-20/1719:48> »
Part of that is the reduced value of Matrix attributes in 6E.  1s don't hurt quite as much as they did in 5th.  Mind you a 1 or 2 Firewall is a fairly high risk if ever a data spike does get flung your way.  And giving up Edge to a Spider in a Host seems like a very bad idea given the number of checks normally involved in a Hack.

"Re-roll 5 hits"
"Doh!"

Frankly, I'm thinking what you do is just Brute Force your way thru the hack.  leave a 1 in sleaze.. whatever. All it means is you suck at trying to backdoor entry, which you aren't even doing anyway.  Yeah, you'll need a good firewall (maybe even make THAT your highest value) but whatever. You have spell buffs, mysad powers, and when the biofeedback starts coming you have your spirits of kin to just keep healing it away.  Whatevah, I'll do what I want!
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #40 on: <04-15-20/1741:51> »
Brute Force option certainly works for quick hacks or when the team has already gone loud. 

Buff Mage Decker is certainly a doable build.  I think mine even wound up with double digit Social Skill dice pools...