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Hacking a Vehicle

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Xenon

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« Reply #15 on: <04-09-20/2021:29> »
That would imply it would take a command each turn from the Rigger to keep attacking a target. 
Command Drone is just a minor action though.... ;-)

And if you are using a RCC then you can command several slaved drones to take the same action ("Drone #1, #3, #6 and #7 - fire one narrow burst at that Troll over there").

Leith

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« Reply #16 on: <04-09-20/2138:09> »
Aside from the game mechanics, what is the difference between spoof command and an illicit use of control device?

Spoof is a single command, control is sustained long term control

EDIT: more specifically spoof is tricking a device into following a command while control is actually using the device directly

Couldn't control then be said to be a series of spoofed commands?

I'm kinda curious as to why there are two actions for what is more or less the same thing. Mechanically they function very differently. For instance spoof command is a major action so using it to command drones would be less practical than control device, but control device would need user or admin (cant be bothered to look up which) access.
« Last Edit: <04-09-20/2139:44> by Leith »

Banshee

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« Reply #17 on: <04-09-20/2148:36> »
Aside from the game mechanics, what is the difference between spoof command and an illicit use of control device?

Spoof is a single command, control is sustained long term control

EDIT: more specifically spoof is tricking a device into following a command while control is actually using the device directly

Couldn't control then be said to be a series of spoofed commands?

I'm kinda curious as to why there are two actions for what is more or less the same thing. Mechanically they function very differently. For instance spoof command is a major action so using it to command drones would be less practical than control device, but control device would need user or admin (cant be bothered to look up which) access.

Spoof is an illegal action that doesn't require access that requires a roll every time you want to issue a command which generates OS on every hit

Control is a legal action that requires access that if gained by back door does not accumulate OS, and allows sustained use of said device without further rolls

Which works best is solely dependent on the situation and what you are set up for
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Leith

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« Reply #18 on: <04-09-20/2202:44> »
But if probe only took one action you wouldn't need spoof command cuz control device can be done illegally. And since spoof can be done in one action, and it does more or less what control does, why does probe take so long?

That's gonna be my last thought along those lines, but I appreciate the time Banshee. I sure as heck wouldn't engage with these questions.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #19 on: <04-09-20/2209:43> »
Aside from the game mechanics, what is the difference between spoof command and an illicit use of control device?

Spoof is a single command, control is sustained long term control

EDIT: more specifically spoof is tricking a device into following a command while control is actually using the device directly

Couldn't control then be said to be a series of spoofed commands?

I'm kinda curious as to why there are two actions for what is more or less the same thing. Mechanically they function very differently. For instance spoof command is a major action so using it to command drones would be less practical than control device, but control device would need user or admin (cant be bothered to look up which) access.

Think of the example of a drone with a weapon.  Tricking the pilot into thinking it's been given an authenticated command to commence firing on a new target is Spoof Command.  Drone is rolling its own dice to execute the order.

If you want to hijack control of the drone, and use your own Engineering (Gunnery) skill to directly fire the drone's gun yourself at a target, you're rolling your own skill.  Can't be Spoof Command, must be Control Device.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Leith

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« Reply #20 on: <04-09-20/2230:20> »
"Pan rifle up 26 degrees" and "shoot that guy" are both commands. I'm not wondering how the mechanics work, but rather why they work that way.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #21 on: <04-09-20/2239:30> »
"Pan rifle up 26 degrees" and "shoot that guy" are both commands. I'm not wondering how the mechanics work, but rather why they work that way.

What I'm getting at is an if-then evaluation.

If: the device executing your order means you have to roll a skill check for it to do so (e.g. shooting at someone, piloting a vehicle)

Then: you have to use Control Device

Else: (e.g. opening a door, ejecting a clip, these things have no skill check involved) you can use either Spoof Command OR Control Device.  Spoof Command doesn't require access, but Control Device doesn't jack your OS once you DO have access.  Each has pros/cons.
« Last Edit: <04-09-20/2241:18> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Leith

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« Reply #22 on: <04-09-20/2328:48> »
How does that map onto a fictional reality?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #23 on: <04-09-20/2338:43> »
How does that map onto a fictional reality?

If it's a "sufficiently simple" task, it's Spoof-able.  If it's NOT "sufficiently simple", then you must use sustained "remote control".  And I'm suggesting the meta-measure of whether a task is "sufficiently simple" is whether the task requires a skill test to accomplish.

Banshee (the guy who literally wrote the matrix rules, btw) told you his measure is one of time. If the task takes longer than a combat round to accomplish, you must use Control Device.

Pick one rationale. Or both. Or neither. Game's not going to break if you come up with your own way to reconcile Spoof Command vs Control Device.
« Last Edit: <04-09-20/2347:35> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Leith

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« Reply #24 on: <04-09-20/2357:05> »
Both actions take 3 seconds to perform and one of them involves pretending to be a legit user without establishing that disguise beforehand. In a sense spoof command forges temporary admin access that literally lasts 3 seconds. Considering brute force raises the alarm and probe takes at least a minute that's pretty baller.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #25 on: <04-09-20/2359:27> »
Spoof Command *is* awesome in this edition, due to being Outsider access.

However there are meaningful limitations on what you can make a device do via Spoof Command.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #26 on: <04-10-20/0425:21> »
If you want to actually remote control the drone yourself, using your own Engineering and Piloting skills and your own attributes and have the drone act on your initative - then you first need proper access on the drone / the network the drone is connected to (via either brute force if time is of the essence or a combination of probe and backdoor entry of stealth is of more important) and you need to take control of the device (via the control device action). Once this is done you are free to take any action you want with the drone for as long as you wish to remain in control of it. There are no additional hacking related tests involved from this point. This option is awesome if you wish to have prolonged access to a device (for example directly controlling a hostile drone during a whole combat scene or directly controlling a vehicle during a whole car chase scene). This is also the only option if you wish to use your own ratings rather than depending on the skill of the on board auto pilot.

If you rather give an instruction to the on board auto pilot to act on its own, using its own pilot rating and auto soft ratings and acting on its own turn or if want to quickly issue a command to a drone (or other device) without having access on the drone / the network the drone is connected to then Spoof Command is the way to go. This option is awesome if you don't have Engineering or Piloting skills of your own or if you are in a hurry to issue a single command to the drone (or a maglock or an elevator etc) without going through the trouble of first gaining access.

Banshee

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« Reply #27 on: <04-10-20/0702:41> »
Also to build on what both SSDR and Xenon have said (which are true and valid) there is also the fact that spoof is meant for the quick and dirty or unexpected tasks ... like oh crap here is a lock we didn't anticipate... spoof it to open it, you are trying to control it or gain access of any kind. No need to make any kind of prolonged hack attempt and overcome the obstacle quickly. Control device on the other hand is for actual control that is required for more complicated or skillfully task. It requires that you first gain access and actually take over the device.

In my opinion the only time this gets fuzzy is with drones and vehicles which is where everyone seems to be hanging up about why do this when you can do that? When I was writing I saw control device being used more for that sort of thing because you would want to emulate actual control, spoof comman on a drone would be more for stuff like telling it to go away or some such thing.

Maybe think of it as "mind control" powers almost ... spoof is the jedi mind trick used for simple encounters or suggestions... while control device is full on Progessor X mind control so the target is your literal puppet
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #28 on: <04-10-20/1051:58> »
How does that map onto a fictional reality?

Imagine that you have an echo and you say "Alexa, Play Rage against the machine." and Alexa does so. That is a command issued to the pilot program(Alexa) to execute a command.

The DGI Phantom 3 is a drone used in filming in our real world. It has a remote control(RCC) like most drones and A program like Alexa(pilot program) that is capable of doing things on its own. The drone only takes commands from its remote control in either case. You can move the joysticks and it moves the way you told it to. You can also tell it to follow a specific target and it does so without you having to move it via the remote control.

Johnny hacker on the other hand want to use your Drone to follow something else though. This is where spoof and control device come in. He can hack the drone(probe/brute force) to accept commands form his remote control and then move the joysticks to make the drone move the way he wishes (Control Device) but the hacker needs to have access to do so. Or, he can send it a command like "follow this other target instead" and let the drones pilot take care of the specifics but the pilot needs to think that the command is coming from its legal remote control and that is what spoof does. it issues the command to the pilot and fools it into thinking that it cam from its legal controller which is why it doesn't need access to do. You are using the legal controllers access instead.

hopefully that made sense ad didn't muddy the waters to much.
« Last Edit: <04-10-20/1055:02> by Redwulfe »
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Eloque

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« Reply #29 on: <04-10-20/1543:36> »
Wow, that exploded into answers. Thanks everyone.

So, it's 6th edition yeah. Can someone run through these steps, as an example?

  • See Ford
    Gain access to Ford
    Open door of the Ford