Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Paper on <07-30-17/0332:46>
-
--Priorities--
Metatype: E (Human)
Attributes: A
Magic: C (Explorer)
Skills: B
Resources: D
--Attributes--
Body: 3
Agility: 5
Reaction: 4
Strength: 3
Willpower: 5
Logic: 2
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 6
Edge: 2
Magic: 6
--Derived Attributes--
Essence: 6
Initiative: 9 + 1D6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 3D6
Physical Limit: 5
Mental Limit: 5
Social Limit: 8
Astral Limit: 8
Physical Condition Monitor: 10
Stun Condition Monitor: 11
Overflow: 3
--Qualities--
Positive
First Impression - 11 Karma
Perceptive - 10 Karma
Negative
Dry Addict - Alcohol, Mild - 2 Karma
Gremlins 3 - 12 Karma
Poor Self Control: Thrill Seeker - 4 Karma
Spirit Bane: Beast Spirits - 7 Karma
Optional Choices
The Seer - Focused Awakened
--Skills--
Athletics 1
Stealth 5
Assensing 6 (+2 Aura Reading) = 13 (15) dice
Astral Combat 6 (+2 Spirits) = 11 (13) dice
Con 6 (+2 Fast Talk) = 12 (14) dice
Etiquette 6 (+2 Street) = 12 (14) dice
Negotiation 6 (+2 Contracts) = 12 (14) dice
Perception 6 (+2 Visual) = 13 (15) dice
Unarmed Combat 6 = 11 dice
--Knowledge/Language Skills--
Interest Knowledge: Alcohol 4
Language: English N
Language: Japanese 4
Street Knowledge: Spirits 2
Street Knowledge: The Bible 4
--Magic--
Tradition - Traditional Christian Theurgist
Gains the Exorcism Metamagic for free
Cannot practice magic on the Sabbath
Metamagics
Exorcism
Psychometry
Sensing
--Gear--
Weapons
Shock Gloves - 550 nuyen
Armor
Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3, Nonconductivity 6, Fire Resistance 4 - 16,000 nuyen
Synergist Business Line Longcoat w/ Custom Fit (Stack), Holster, Nonconductivity 4, Shock Frills - 3,550 nuyen
Armante Suit w/ +2 Social Limit, Shock Frills, Nonconductivity 2 - 3,250 nuyen
Custom Ballistic Mask w/ +2 Social Limit (Intimidation), Biomonitor, Gas Mask, Trodes, Flare Compensation, Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Vision Magnification - 2,370 nuyen
Commlinks
Transys Avalon - 5,000 nuyen
Renraku Sensei x3 - 3,000 nuyen
Meta Link x5 - 500 nuyen
Electronic Accessories
Trodes - 70 nuyen
Credsticks
Gold Credstick - 100 nuyen
Silver Credstick x5 - 100 nuyen
Identification
Fake SIN 4 w/ Fake License 4 (Awakened), Fake License 4 (Self-Defense Weaponry [Shock Gloves & Shock Frills]) - 11,600 nuyen
Visual Devices
Contacts 3 w/ Vision Enhancement 3 - 2,100 nuyen
Audio Devices
Ear Buds 3 w/ Audio Enhancement 3 - 1,650 nuyen
Survival Gear
Gas Mask - 200 nuyen
Survival Kit - 200 nuyen
Biotech
Medkit 6 - 1,500 nuyen
Vehicles
Suzuki Mirage - 8,500 nuyen
Lifestyles
Low Lifestyle x1 - 2,000 nuyen
Remaining Nuyen: 7,760 + (3D6 x 60)
--Contacts--
Bartender - Connection 1, Loyalty 3
Church Pastor - Connection 2, Loyalty 4
Fixer - Connection 5, Loyalty 2
Street Doc - Connection 4, Loyalty 2
Talismonger - Connection 3, Loyalty 2
--Karma Expenditures--
Starting Karma: 25
Negative Qualities: 25
Positive Qualities: -21
Logic from 1 to 2: -10
Athletics from 0 to 1: -5
20,000 nuyen: -10
Contacts: -4
---------------------------------------------
It's been a long time since I've played a game of Shadowrun, so I'm looking for some feedback on this character. The main concept was to make use of some of the new stuff in Forbidden Arcana and I've always been sort of intrigued by the whole Astral Combat archetype. Of course, spells did a better job normally, but now I can create something a little different. I figured I could fit in some face skills, considering I decided to max out Charisma. The only worry is that I'm spreading myself fairly thin, not to mention that my dice pools are not that high. Most groups I've played with are very min/max or power gamer oriented, whereas I just tried to make something that's a bit interesting with this character. Anyway, let me know what you think.
-
Currently you should have 3 edge rather than 2. Also, lacking a quality that says otherwise, you only get one N language.
Besides that you seem to be pretty poor at everything, no weapon focus to help you in combat, no cyberware, just a bunch of commlinks and a car you actually don't know how to drive. Even your face skills are lower than what I would consider good for a proper face.
Sum to 10 would really help this character I think.
-
The 2 Edge is because I have 6 Magic (Explorer only gives Magic 5). That extra N was a typo, it's supposed to be 4.
Well, what would you suggest? I agree that it needs some work. The main part that I want to stay is the Astral Combat + Melee Skill, everything else could be reworked as needed. I get that the dice pools are low, but since I am truly not getting any buffs, neither magical nor technological, I'm not sure how to remedy that. Weapon Focus is something that would be good to work in, I agree.
Commlinks are a mix of burners and such that I'm used to putting on characters. I realize for this one, it is not a great idea. I'm also used to picking up Pilot Ground Craft 1 and a vehicle, which I somehow missed when creating this one. I'll think about some way to rework this, but in the meantime, what Sum to 10 priorities do you suggest? I feel like I need maxed out Attributes, and I need C in Magic for the concept. Maxed out Skills seems hard to justify, since it doesn't really up my niche pools, it just broadens them. Higher Resources leads to ... what? I guess I could fit in Foci or something? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Also, although I'm not changing the character yet, will remove the Language typo.
-
What are you gaining from going magic 5 - 6? Magic is a burnable resource for you so long as you have > 1.
I would probably go something like attributes B (agility and strength aren't doing much for you), skills c, magic c, resources c, Metatype d. Better resources can give weapon focus and cyberware (pheromones for your face side), being an elf helps both sides of your character, (Basically increasing face dice pools and astral DV close to 5.)
-
I suppose the only thing I get is Astral Form time from Magic. Not really a big plus.
I'm not entirely opposed to the suggestions, in fact, I like them quite a lot. It appears I should just abandon any attempt at meat world combat, as I cannot fit in the necessary Strength and Agility for it. I'll do a revision and post it in a bit.
-
--Priorities--
Metatype: D (Elf)
Attributes: B
Magic: C (Explorer)
Skills: C
Resources: C
--Attributes--
Body: 3
Agility: 3
Reaction: 4
Strength: 1
Willpower: 5
Logic: 3
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 8
Edge: 2
Magic: 4
--Derived Attributes--
Essence: 5.125
Initiative: 9 + 1D6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 3D6
Physical Limit: 3
Mental Limit: 6
Social Limit: 9
Astral Limit: 9
Physical Condition Monitor: 10
Stun Condition Monitor: 11
Overflow: 3
--Qualities--
Positive
Astral Bouncer - 10 Karma
First Impression - 11 Karma
Negative
Dry Addict - Alcohol, Mild - 2 Karma
Poor Self Control: Thrill Seeker - 4 Karma
Spirit Bane: Beast Spirits - 7 Karma
Unsteady Hands - 7 Karma
SINner: National - 5 Karma
Optional Choices
The Seer - Focused Awakened
--Skills--
Athletics 2
Assensing 6 (+2 Aura Reading) = 11 (13) dice
Astral Combat 6 (+2 Spirits) = 14 (16) dice
Con 6 (+2 Fast Talk) = 17 (19) dice
Etiquette 6 (+2 Street) = 17 (19) dice
Negotiation 6 (+2 Contracts) = 17 (19) dice
Perception 4 (+2 Visual) = 9 (11) dice
--Knowledge/Language Skills--
Interest Knowledge: Alcohol 4
Language: English N
Language: Japanese 4
Street Knowledge: Spirits 2
Street Knowledge: The Bible 4
--Magic--
Tradition - Traditional Christian Theurgist
Gains the Exorcism Metamagic for free
Cannot practice magic on the Sabbath
Metamagics
Exorcism
Psychometry
Sensing
--Augmentations--
Used Datajack - 0.125 Essence / 750 nuyen
Used Tailored Pheromones 3 - 0.75 Essence / 69,750 nuyen
--Gear--
Foci
Force 3 Weapon Focus - 21,000 nuyen
Weapons
Combat Knife - 300 nuyen
Armor
Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3, Nonconductivity 6, Fire Resistance 4 - 16,000 nuyen
Synergist Business Line Longcoat w/ Custom Fit (Stack), Holster, Nonconductivity 6 - 3,800 nuyen
Armante Suit w/ +2 Social Limit, Nonconductivity 4 - 3,500 nuyen
Custom Ballistic Mask w/ +2 Social Limit (Intimidation), Biomonitor, Gas Mask, Flare Compensation, Thermographic Vision, Vision Magnification - 1,800 nuyen
Commlinks
Transys Avalon - 5,000 nuyen
Credsticks
Gold Credstick - 100 nuyen
Silver Credstick x5 - 100 nuyen
Identification
Fake SIN 4 w/ Fake License 4 (Awakened), Fake License 4 (Bioware), Fake License 4 (Weapon Focus) - 12,400 nuyen
Visual Devices
Contacts 3 w/ Vision Enhancement 3 - 2,100 nuyen
Audio Devices
Ear Buds 3 w/ Audio Enhancement 3 - 1,650 nuyen
Survival Gear
Survival Kit - 200 nuyen
Biotech
Medkit 6 - 1,500 nuyen
Lifestyles
Low Lifestyle x1 - 2,000 nuyen
Remaining Nuyen: 8,050 + (3D6 x 60)
--Contacts--
Church Pastor - Connection 2, Loyalty 4
Fixer - Connection 5, Loyalty 2
Street Doc - Connection 4, Loyalty 2
Talismonger - Connection 3, Loyalty 2
--Karma Expenditures--
Starting Karma: 25
Negative Qualities: 25
Positive Qualities: -21
Edge from 1 to 2: -10
20,000 nuyen: -10
Bound Force 3 Weapon Focus: -9
Remaining Karma: 0
---------------------------------------------
Take #2. Definitely like the feel a bit more, although the low Edge and lack of meat world capability is slightly concerning.
-
I would give up on some Specialization for now and spend the points into Sneaking, it's quite an important skill. Also use some Karma to take a couple of points into Automatics or Pistols just so you can do more than just hiding during fight (Suppressive Fire is really good to assist your meat space fighter).
You can even get a Smartlink/Smartgun for an easy +2 dice at shooting, maybe free some money from the weapon focus, it's good to have one for the extra damage but you don't need it at high force. My favorite weapon Focus is the staff, inconspicious enough and the lack of AP doesn't matter in the Astral (Club if you have high weapon focus also work well).
-
Question: Is a weapon focus necessary for Astral Combat?
I ask because I don't necessarily need the DV (8 Charisma is strong enough), but I feel like I'm lacking in dice. Attacking dual-natured magicians seems easy enough, but if I want to even try to go toe to toe with a spirit, I need a lot of dice. A Force 6 Spirit rolls 12 dice to defend, I think? Presumably I want to try and get at least a net hit, otherwise I'm missing the point of the character. I picked a knife because it is concealable, no other reason, really. Plus it's 100% legal (if still disallowed in some establishments).
If I don't really need the dice, I can ditch the focus for now, freeing up a good chunk of money and karma. I'm just not sure I can afford to drop it.
Regarding the Sneaking and Automatics skills, I like your suggestions. How do I get enough dice to make it worth it? I can see dropping enough Specializations to get Sneaking 4, and if I drop the focus and Astral Bouncer quality, I can pick up Automatics 3 + a Specialization. Is that enough dice? That puts me at 7 dice for Sneaking, and 8 (10 with smartlink) for Automatics. I guess Spray n' Pray is the name of the game for fire support?
-
A level 1 weapon focus will get you a significant bonus to your DV. But rank 1 is probably high enough to start.
For meatworld issues I would suggest a cyberlimb and a single combat skill. A high agility arm isn't that expensive and can increase your meatworld combat ability an insane amount.
-
All right, rather than reposting the whole thing, since I'm still thinking about it, I'll post the ideas here.
I'll drop the Astral Bouncer quality and 6,000 nuyen, while downgrading the weapon focus to Force 1. That will give me back 19 Karma that I will use to get Automatics 3 (+2 SMGs). I'll drop the specializations from Con, Etiquette, Negotiation, and Perception to get Sneaking 4. I'll purchase a Used Cyberarm with Custom Agility 6, and Agility Enhancement 3, which will cost me 37,125 nuyen. I think I can massage the rest of the gear, especially the armor, to make it all fit in the budget.
Is that a good idea?
-
That gets you what, 14 dice for meatspace combat? Should be plenty. You aren't a primary combatant.
-
--Priorities--
Metatype: D (Elf)
Attributes: B
Magic: C (Explorer)
Skills: C
Resources: C
--Attributes--
Body: 3
Agility: 3
Reaction: 4
Strength: 1
Willpower: 5
Logic: 3
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 8
Edge: 3
Magic: 2
--Derived Attributes--
Essence: 3.875
Initiative: 9 + 1D6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 3D6
Physical Limit: 3
Mental Limit: 6
Social Limit: 9
Astral Limit: 9
Physical Condition Monitor: 10
Stun Condition Monitor: 11
Overflow: 3
--Qualities--
Positive
First Impression - 11 Karma
Negative
Dry Addict - Alcohol, Mild - 2 Karma
Poor Self Control: Thrill Seeker - 4 Karma
Spirit Bane: Beast Spirits - 7 Karma
Unsteady Hands - 7 Karma
SINner: National - 5 Karma
Optional Choices
The Seer - Focused Awakened
--Skills--
Athletics 2
Assensing 6 (+2 Aura Reading) = 11 (13) dice
Astral Combat 6 (+2 Spirits) = 14 (16) dice
Automatics 3 (+2 Machine Pistols) = 12 (14) dice
Con 6 = 17 dice
Etiquette 6 = 17 dice
Negotiation 6 = 17 dice
Perception 4 = 9 dice
Sneaking 4 = 7 dice
--Knowledge/Language Skills--
Interest Knowledge: Alcohol 4
Language: English N
Language: Japanese 4
Street Knowledge: Spirits 2
Street Knowledge: The Bible 4
--Magic--
Tradition - Traditional Christian Theurgist
Gains the Exorcism Metamagic for free
Cannot practice magic on the Sabbath
Metamagics
Exorcism
Psychometry
Sensing
--Augmentations--
Used Datajack - 0.125 Essence / 750 nuyen
Used Tailored Pheromones 3 - 0.75 Essence / 69,750 nuyen
Used Obvious Cyberarm w/ Custom Agility 6, Enhanced Agility 3 - 1.25 Essence / 37,125 nuyen
--Gear--
Foci
Force 1 Weapon Focus - 7,000 nuyen
Weapons
Combat Knife - 300 nuyen
Ares Crusader II w/ Integrated Gas-Vent 2, Integrated Smartgun System, Concealed Quick-Draw Holster, Silencer, Spare Clip x3 - 1,620 nuyen
Ammunition
Regular Rounds x100 - 200 nuyen
Stick-n-Shock Rounds x100 - 800 nuyen
Armor
Armor Jacket - 1,000 nuyen
Armante Suit w/ +2 Social Limit - 2,500 nuyen
Custom Ballistic Mask w/ +2 Social Limit (Intimidation), Biomonitor, Gas Mask, Flare Compensation, Thermographic Vision, Vision Magnification - 1,800 nuyen
Commlinks
Renraku Sensei - 1,000 nuyen
Credsticks
Gold Credstick - 100 nuyen
Silver Credstick x5 - 100 nuyen
Identification
Fake SIN 4 w/ Fake License 4 (Awakened), Fake License 4 (Bioware), Fake License 4 (Weapon Focus), Fake License 4 (Machine Pistol) - 13,200 nuyen
Survival Gear
Survival Kit - 200 nuyen
Biotech
Medkit 6 - 1,500 nuyen
Lifestyles
Low Lifestyle x1 - 2,000 nuyen
Remaining Nuyen: 1,055 + (3D6 x 60)
--Contacts--
Church Pastor - Connection 2, Loyalty 4
Fixer - Connection 5, Loyalty 2
Street Doc - Connection 4, Loyalty 2
Talismonger - Connection 3, Loyalty 2
--Karma Expenditures--
Starting Karma: 25
Negative Qualities: 25
Positive Qualities: -11
Edge from 1 to 2: -10
Automatics from 0 to 3: -12
Automatics Specialization: -7
14,000 nuyen: -7
Bound Force 1 Weapon Focus: -3
Remaining Karma: 0
---------------------------------------------
All right, I think this character is done. Thanks a bunch guys! It definitely needed a lot of work, but I like how it turned out.
-
That is very odd sum 2 10 variant.
Honestly, this just kind of an odd way to go about it. Maybe go social adept and get astral combat that way?
i don't think you can take spirit bane, if you can't summon.
Your a little to much face a not a lot astral combat.
-
I don't see anything saying that you have to summon to take Spirit Bane. The main point of it for this character is that Beast Spirits are naturally hostile towards him and will attack him first if given orders to attack the group.
The main point is to use the Explorer aspect, rather than Adept. I get that it's a bit odd, but unless I'm missing something or someone has a suggestion, I'm not sure how to increase my Astral Combat dice pool much more than I already have. The face skills, as far as I can tell, haven't affected my Astral Combat abilities. This isn't necessarily meant to be the most efficient character, merely something interesting. That being said, if it can be made better without losing the core of the character, I'm open to suggestions.
-
I don't see anything saying that you have to summon to take Spirit Bane. The main point of it for this character is that Beast Spirits are naturally hostile towards him and will attack him first if given orders to attack the group.
Yeah you're correct, the wording that confused me was magic user, but at magic C i guess this has to counts.
The main point is to use the Explorer aspect, rather than Adept. I get that it's a bit odd, but unless I'm missing something or someone has a suggestion, I'm not sure how to increase my Astral Combat dice pool much more than I already have. The face skills, as far as I can tell, haven't affected my Astral Combat abilities. This isn't necessarily meant to be the most efficient character, merely something interesting. That being said, if it can be made better without losing the core of the character, I'm open to suggestions.
Honestly I recommend trying to rebuild this on karma gen, this variant is overly restricting imo.
Weapon foci, will add their dice to astral combat, given your stat line, you need something like a stun baton to be effective in the real world, But it raises some issues your GM will have figure out how he wants to address. (Things like when you astral project is your stun baton still a stun baton? Does it do electrical damage? etc Honestly i'd try to build this as like straight 4 across line or something similar to that. It's very weird I admit.
After that aptitude (Astral combat) would let you go to 7. Maybe a mentor spirit? There is a martial art in FA, but i don't that's really going to helpful for you.
As far as beating down spirits go, Adepts are really the best at it. Spirit claws combined with just generally very strong unarmed builds, is really the only thing i can think of.
-
I'm glad you like it, that is the most important thing after all.
-
Honestly I recommend trying to rebuild this on karma gen, this variant is overly restricting imo.
Weapon foci, will add their dice to astral combat, given your stat line, you need something like a stun baton to be effective in the real world, But it raises some issues your GM will have figure out how he wants to address. (Things like when you astral project is your stun baton still a stun baton? Does it do electrical damage? etc Honestly i'd try to build this as like straight 4 across line or something similar to that. It's very weird I admit.
After that aptitude (Astral combat) would let you go to 7. Maybe a mentor spirit? There is a martial art in FA, but i don't that's really going to helpful for you.
As far as beating down spirits go, Adepts are really the best at it. Spirit claws combined with just generally very strong unarmed builds, is really the only thing i can think of.
Unfortunately, FA doesn't give guidelines on how to purchase the Explorer aspect in Karmagen. I agree that it definitely isn't as good as an Adept, but what can I say? I've got folders full of character archetypes that I made ages ago (and will probably update again every time a new SR book comes out) and sometimes I just want to make something a little different. You are quite correct that Aptitude would help, and while there isn't a Mentor Spirit off the top of my head that gives a bonus to Astral Combat, it still might exist. However, I can't fit everything into one character, especially not at chargen. As it was, if you look back at the first iteration of it, this character wasn't good at much of anything. With the suggestions people made, I managed, somewhat to my astonishment, to be decent backup in meatspace combat while having decent face skills. Astral Combat, unfortunately, is just something that I can't seem to buff too much without removing a lot of other options from the character.
I appreciate your suggestions, and I agree that from an efficiency standpoint, this character is perhaps not the best. However, I think that I accomplished my goal of creating something that's just a bit different, while still playable.
I'm glad you like it, that is the most important thing after all.
Thank you for your help! I definitely wouldn't have thought to include those augmentations in a magic build. Since the changes from 4E, I've been extremely hesitant on using augmentations in my magic users, but in this case, my magic was expendable, as you pointed out. Plus, those augmentations add a little bit of extra flavor that I can integrate into the backstory, should I get to use this character in a game.
-
The main benefit of Explorer over Adept is the access to Projection which is a great tool to spy and to fight spirit that decide to just fly out of the adept range. The benefit over magicians is that you can access to Astral Combat/Assensing for really cheap: With the starting magic and skill points you have everything you need for that except the attribute. Magicians don't really need astral combat anyway so it was a waste to pick a C magician just for projection and the Explorer open that build.
Is it weaker than Adept/Magicians? Yes certainly but so is pretty much every build tbh, magic is super strong in Shadowrun, it's not really a good argument. Personally I build one as well (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=26477.0) because I like the concept and the fluff of the explorer.
-
Optimizing for astral combat is tough, and can easily leave you not good at anything else. And astral combat is not really much of a marketable shadowrunning primary function unless on very specific kinds of runs.
Things to note:
If going explorer, you really only need a Magic of 1. This lets go astral (for two hours), assense, get a mentor spirit, and get a weapon focus. It's ok to get 'ware!!
If wanting to take advantage of other magical things, you can go magician (probably at B for the free skills), but you can build to be low Magic as well. ex. get free counterspelling/astral combat.
So there seems to be two ways IMO to build an astral combat specialist that is also a functional part of a team (takes on a more traditional specialty as well). You build as a face around your high DV charisma, or you 'ware up a lot (you can burn a lot of Magic) and be a physical combat/melee specialist.
I highly recommend Narco and Nephritic Screens as minimal 'ware. Your astral form can be manipulated by using drugs. Narco and Zen gets you +2 Willpower. In the astral, that's a quick +2 astral combat dice and +2 soak (might save your life). Something like Red Mesc will give you +2 Willpower and +2 Charisma (for damage).
-
So, at the risk of summoning the gods of munch and cheese:
Given a really capable enchanter contact, how about a monowhip focus? 8)
Edit: Actually, if you have some 10k spare for reagents, a totally average enchanter will do.
-
Request to the OP... can we discuss why everyone is down on astral combat? seems relevant, but I can do a different thread entirely if you prefer...
-
Astral combat is often redundant if you are already a magician. If you already can summon spirits, they are already good at astral combat. If you can spellcast, you can already do damage in the astral (and at safe range). If you already can do these things, astral combat is just rarely going to be used and takes up lots of skill slots. Let alone astral combat very dangerous.
So if you are already a magicky character, astral combat just doesn't serve a lot of use.
I think astral combat works best when you limit it to your primary/only magical ability, while you specialize in something else, probably facing or physical combat. With say Magic 1 or 2 , some 'ware and/or drugs, and a weapon focus, you can be solid at astral combat while still having the resources to be good at something else.
-
So I suppose I am thinking of a projecting mage defending himself on the astral, rather than lobbing spells at a materialized spirit that your team has engaged in meatspace. So specifically to address the point of a mage already being able to do damage in the astral: If I'm not mistaken, only direct damage spells work, and you can't use reagents. So you are rolling your base combat spellcasing dice pool, and they are resisting your hits. So they are resisting 4 damage on average from a mage. And not from a safe distance. On the astral, distance means almost nothing, so they will be closing to do melee from you (which is the only way they can attack you I believe). As to having your own spirits, bound spirit tasks are expensive, and you can't always count on having bound spirits, so you have your one summoned spirit. If you are up against more than one spirit, you may be in for it.
So I'm basing this off my chaos mage, with an Int of 5, Will of 7, and Cha of 4, Log 2, with a club for weapon focus. he would be doing 7P plus net hits that the other spirit would be soaking, rather than 4. Right? Seems better to have the option, right? Of course, with a dwarf, will 7, 6 ranks in Astral Combat, specialized with his weapon focus, he's rolling 16 dice to hit, so he shouldn't be missing. Maybe that character is the exception? I also build my mages with Sum to 10 with A in both magic and skills, so again, maybe the exception there as well.
Am I right with the spells for damage in the astral though?
-
Yes mana aka direct, so damaged based on hit capped by force vs will+conterspell. baring witness my hate or something else to muck around with damage values. Most mages don't run Magic A and Skill A. So very few have skill points to put into astral combat, on top of that. Astral attributes are kind of funky, Logic as agi, cha is strength. Most casters will have as high possible stats in their drain abilities, so Int+Will, Cha+Wil or Log+Will. So hermatics have a decent chance of being able to hit something, and shamans have decent astral damage, and chaos has a good chance of going first, but few mages have all three. So common sense or simple math suggest doubling down on being be very good spell casting and your covered regardless. Though i think we have gone fairly off topic. What was the question?
-
Projecting Mage:
I am thinking of this too. It is dangerous for a projecting magician to fight in the astral. An F6 spirit is still going to be tough to take on.
Lobbing Spells:
You can project/perceive and lob mana spells into the astral as well. That is what I was referring to. A magician can get combat dice very high. While they are resisting hits, they are only resisting with a dicepool of their willpower. An astral combat attack gets a defense test (Logic + Intuition), and then soaks with Willpower.
You can attack dual-natured things from above them when projecting with spells just fine. It's a little more dangerous with astral combat unless you one-hit kill things.
Spirits:
Why do you have to use a bound spirit? A single summoned spirit can be very powerful on its own in the astral. It only uses one service per fight. And if it gets "killed," you can just summon another one. You can't do that with yourself.
Weapon focus:
Don't forget that when you use a weapon focus, you use its accuracy for your astral attacks. For a club, that accuracy is 4. 5 if your GM lets you use a personalized grip in the astral. Lots of spirits/magicians are going to be able to get 4 hits on a Logic + Intuition test and avoid being hit. You are going to want a weapon with a higher accuracy, or no weapon, which would limit your dicepool.
That being said, I have an astral combat character that I like. My astral samurai using runnerhub rules:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6kA-rvHAq-rZmRPZmhGZG9RY0U/view
Can get Willpower to 11 with Zen, and have 22 astral combat dice when weapon focus is bound. Psyche helps astral defense (+4). Goal would also be to get Magic 2, and cast Force 4 Increase Charisma on himself (or take Novacoke).
With more generous character creation rules, the character could start with magic 2 and Increased Charisma, making going astral safer. In retrospect it saving room for a Pain Editor in the future would also be ideal...
When not dealing with the astral, character is more often a physical tank/sam.
-
Well, I was asking why astral combat was always recommended against. Maybe my feelings for it on this character have to do with more breathing room in skills, high Will (astral combat is Will not Log), decent charisma. With the night int and will, this character would go fast, have the extra pass to full defense with, very accurate and good damage. I can't build a mage for less than B in skills. I like to look at a character as having rounded skills, since your face won't always be there, can't ask your decker every time you want to Google something, and you need perception, assensing, and sneak at a minimum on everyone.
So to bring this back around for the OP, looks like dwarves make good astral comabat specialists due to higher will.
-
Well, I was asking why astral combat was always recommended against. Maybe my feelings for it on this character have to do with more breathing room in skills, high Will (astral combat is Will not Log), decent charisma. With the night int and will, this character would go fast, have the extra pass to full defense with, very accurate and good damage. I can't build a mage for less than B in skills. I like to look at a character as having rounded skills, since your face won't always be there, can't ask your decker every time you want to Google something, and you need perception, assensing, and sneak at a minimum on everyone.
So to bring this back around for the OP, looks like dwarves make good astral comabat specialists due to higher will.
hmm your right, when did that happen?
-
I think it was a change in 5th. It evens out the usefulness of the skill across traditions I think, since most ages will have it at 5.
-
Now i want to build a A neon Mohawk, Rocker dwarven astral explorer with a combination weapon focus combat axe and Guitar, so he can ROCK OUT OF THIS WORLD!!!!!!! <Insert bad Axe puns>lool
-
:o opening Chummer as we speak.
-
Paper,
Using a weapon focus will allow you to take the astral combat spec in your weapon, giving you your dice to all opponents as long as you have it active.
If you can use Sum to 10, going dwarf (raising Meta to C) and droping attributes to C would allow you to have a 7 Will (losing 2 points somewhere to go up from 5, Reaction?) Your aptitude for astral combat could then put the skill at 7. This gives you 14 dice plus specialization. The weapon focus would give you another bonus based on the force of the focus. You would have to drop your Charisma to 5 (only one maxed attribute), and lose two more point of attribute (agility?). Edge would go down by one. Outside going adept, not sure how else to get those dice up.
-
Paper,
Using a weapon focus will allow you to take the astral combat spec in your weapon, giving you your dice to all opponents as long as you have it active.
If you can use Sum to 10, going dwarf (raising Meta to C) and droping attributes to C would allow you to have a 7 Will (losing 2 points somewhere to go up from 5, Reaction?) Your aptitude for astral combat could then put the skill at 7. This gives you 14 dice plus specialization. The weapon focus would give you another bonus based on the force of the focus. You would have to drop your Charisma to 5 (only one maxed attribute), and lose two more point of attribute (agility?). Edge would go down by one. Outside going adept, not sure how else to get those dice up.
The specialty is a nice thought. I am not sure that losing 3 dice from all his face skills, losing 3 damage, and losing a significant number of attribute points, is worth a 2 dice gain in a single skill. Though lowering charisma by one to max willpower on this build is an option (though I would argue still not a great one).