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(SR5) Find a need, Fix a need...

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Aazen

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« on: <06-18-16/1448:42> »
Hey All. Joined a new group. They need a Decker and they need a Face. My on hands experience with SR5 is limited. So question:  Can I make an effect Decker/Face?

How would you do it?

fseperent

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« Reply #1 on: <06-18-16/1459:42> »
Maybe, depending on the chargen the group uses.
Both of those require a lot of skill points.
Need the chargen method before I try to make a sample build.

Edit: forget doing both at "normal" skill as dedicated builds.
Better off choosing a main then branching out.
« Last Edit: <06-18-16/1539:18> by fseperent »

Glyph

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« Reply #2 on: <06-18-16/1611:28> »
Not really.  Deckers are skill-intensive, require high resources, and need high Logic and a decent Willpower.  Faces are much less skill intensive if you concentrate on the two most important skills of negotiation and con, require middling resources if you want to get tailored pheromones: 3, are best as adepts, and need a high Charisma and a decent Willpower.

Trying to do both would stretch even skills: A a bit thin.  Forget being an adept - forget the tailored pheromones, even (you might be able to squeeze the pheromones in if you do sum-to-ten and take resources: A).  You will be able to get the requisite mental Attributes, but your physical ones will probably be anemic.  You could make a decker with some face skills (don't do the other way around - the matrix rules are such that you need to go big or go home) with Skills: A, Resources: B, Attributes: C, Metatype (human): D, and Magic: E - for sum-to-ten, raise Resources to A and drop Metatype to E.

firebug

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« Reply #3 on: <06-18-16/1633:54> »
Hey All. Joined a new group. They need a Decker and they need a Face. My on hands experience with SR5 is limited. So question:  Can I make an effect Decker/Face?

How would you do it?

It's possible, but as the two archetypes have no overlap, you'll have to cut corners.  First I'll list the hurdles/difficulties of the build concept, then I'll offer solutions.

Decker as an archetype requires a lot; as such, it'll have to be the "primary" of the build.  You'll be a decker first, face second.  A secondary decker cannot be the main matrix specialist of his team, while a secondary face can still fill some key roles.

Hurdles
  • Decking requires LOG and INT, with WIL as an off-stat.  Being a Face requires CHA, which is otherwise the common dumpstat for deckers.
  • Essence counts as part of your Social Limit, so loading yourself up with combat augments is a no-no.
  • Decking uses six different skills, in two skill groups.  Social skills also have six different skills, in two skill groups.

Now, in order to handle all of those things there's some simple answers.  The first is to sacrifice points elsewhere.

A normal decker can be competent in combat because of augmentations, putting moderate points into physical attributes.  A social decker needs to spend even more on mentals, meaning they are usually very vulnerable in combat.  While some defensive augments are still an option (bone lacing, orthoskin, etc) a face should avoid things like obvious cyberarms if they want to be able to blend in.  Tailored Pheremones is vital to this build, as it boosts your dice pools and your social limit.  However, it doesn't work if you're making social rolls online--  Something a decker might end up doing surprisingly often.  You have to be in person.

As for skills, on the decker side, you can skimp out on Software and Hardware (one point in Hardware is often all you need) and on the social side, the only absolutely needed skills will be Con, Etiquette, and Negotiation.  If you have those, you can work as the team's Face, handling most things that are best defeated with words.

There's some "advanced techniques" that a social decker can accomplish--  Such as making great use of the Profiler quality (Data Trails, page 46) which was practically designed for such characters.  In fact, I'd consider a specialization in Computer (Matrix Search) just for that ability.  That, alongside a high (but probably not maxed) CHA and Tailored Pheremones can make you a formidable negotiator, leading your team to greater payouts every run.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

fseperent

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« Reply #4 on: <06-18-16/1646:34> »
Aazen: give this thread a look, might help with the face half of your character.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24263.0

firebug hit on a lot of the reasons why I posted that short response earlier.

firebug

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« Reply #5 on: <06-18-16/1700:19> »
Here, I made one mostly, using the basic Priority system.

I haven't picked negative qualities, bought contacts, or spent knowledge points yet.  I also have over 20,000¥ remaining to spend.  Only Karma spent is on Positive Qualities, and 2 Karma spent on buying Rank 1 of Hardware.

[spoiler]== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character
Elf                               Movement: 4/8
                                  Composure: 9
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 3 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 11
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 23810

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: C,2
Special: E,0
Skills: B,3
Resources: A,4

== Attributes ==
BOD: 2                            CHA: 6
AGI: 2                            INT: 5
REA: 2                            LOG: 6 (8)
STR: 1                            WIL: 3
EDG: 1                           

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.0                      Initiative:           7 + 2d6
Physical Damage Track: 9          Rigger Init:          7 + 2d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:         
Physical: 2                       Matrix AR Init:       7 + 2d6
Mental: 8                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 10                        Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
Astral: 10

== Active Skills ==
Computer (Matrix Search)          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14 (16)
Con                               Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Cybercombat                       Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Electronic Warfare                Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Etiquette                         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Hacking                           Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Hardware                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 9
Leadership                        Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Negotiation                       Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Pistols (Semi-Automatics)         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 7 (9)

== Knowledge Skills ==
(Unpurchased)

== Qualities ==
First Impression
Low-Light Vision
Online Fame
Overclocker
Profiler

== Lifestyles ==
Apartment (Low)  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Boosted Reflexes
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Tailored Pheromones Rating 3

== Armor ==
Actioneer Business Clothes          8
Helmet                              2
   +Camera Rating 6
      +Image Link
      +Flare Compensation
      +Thermographic Vision
      +Low Light
   +Flare Compensation
   +Respirator Rating 6
   +Trodes

== Weapons ==
Fichetti Security 600
   +Laser Sight
   +Stock
   Pool: 7 (9)    Accuracy: 7     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 3


== Commlink ==
Renraku Sensei (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
Renraku Tsurugi (ATT: 6, SLZ: 5, DP: 5, FWL: 3)
   +Vectored Signal Filter
   +All Common Programs (800¥)
   +All Hacking Programs (8000¥)

== Gear ==
Fake SIN (UCAS) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Cyberdeck License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Pistol License) Rating 4
Micro-Transceiver
Tag Eraser
Trodes (Stylish Hat)

== Vehicles ==
Ford Americar (Sedan)
   +Sensor Array Rating 2
[/spoiler]

If the social skill pools seem low, it's because they aren't taking into account any of the variables of Tailored Pheremones or Online Fame, combined with Profiler (which can also cause a penalty).

Like I said, they're not that great in combat, but they can safely fulfill two other roles.
« Last Edit: <06-18-16/1703:49> by firebug »
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Aazen

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« Reply #6 on: <06-18-16/1849:24> »
Here, I made one mostly, using the basic Priority system.

I haven't picked negative qualities, bought contacts, or spent knowledge points yet.  I also have over 20,000¥ remaining to spend.  Only Karma spent is on Positive Qualities, and 2 Karma spent on buying Rank 1 of Hardware.

[spoiler]== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character
Elf                               Movement: 4/8
                                  Composure: 9
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 3 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 11
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 23810

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: C,2
Special: E,0
Skills: B,3
Resources: A,4

== Attributes ==
BOD: 2                            CHA: 6
AGI: 2                            INT: 5
REA: 2                            LOG: 6 (8)
STR: 1                            WIL: 3
EDG: 1                           

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.0                      Initiative:           7 + 2d6
Physical Damage Track: 9          Rigger Init:          7 + 2d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:         
Physical: 2                       Matrix AR Init:       7 + 2d6
Mental: 8                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 10                        Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
Astral: 10

== Active Skills ==
Computer (Matrix Search)          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14 (16)
Con                               Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Cybercombat                       Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Electronic Warfare                Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Etiquette                         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Hacking                           Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Hardware                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 9
Leadership                        Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Negotiation                       Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Pistols (Semi-Automatics)         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 7 (9)

== Knowledge Skills ==
(Unpurchased)

== Qualities ==
First Impression
Low-Light Vision
Online Fame
Overclocker
Profiler

== Lifestyles ==
Apartment (Low)  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Boosted Reflexes
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Tailored Pheromones Rating 3

== Armor ==
Actioneer Business Clothes          8
Helmet                              2
   +Camera Rating 6
      +Image Link
      +Flare Compensation
      +Thermographic Vision
      +Low Light
   +Flare Compensation
   +Respirator Rating 6
   +Trodes

== Weapons ==
Fichetti Security 600
   +Laser Sight
   +Stock
   Pool: 7 (9)    Accuracy: 7     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 3


== Commlink ==
Renraku Sensei (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
Renraku Tsurugi (ATT: 6, SLZ: 5, DP: 5, FWL: 3)
   +Vectored Signal Filter
   +All Common Programs (800¥)
   +All Hacking Programs (8000¥)

== Gear ==
Fake SIN (UCAS) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Cyberdeck License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Pistol License) Rating 4
Micro-Transceiver
Tag Eraser
Trodes (Stylish Hat)

== Vehicles ==
Ford Americar (Sedan)
   +Sensor Array Rating 2
[/spoiler]

If the social skill pools seem low, it's because they aren't taking into account any of the variables of Tailored Pheromones or Online Fame, combined with Profiler (which can also cause a penalty).

Like I said, they're not that great in combat, but they can safely fulfill two other roles.


Thanks a lot. This has given me some food for thought. Looks like I'll have to pick up some books outside of the core. Perhaps I should take a look at the Technomancer?
« Last Edit: <06-18-16/1919:09> by Aazen »

fseperent

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« Reply #7 on: <06-18-16/2050:14> »
Technomancers got shafted in 5E.
Would recommend a lot of house rules to make it reasonable.
Saw a pdf someone posted called "hack the earth" forgot who.
Worth a look.

fseperent

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« Reply #8 on: <06-18-16/2123:34> »
Found it.
I think Moonshine Fox did a good job on this.

Hobbes

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« Reply #9 on: <06-19-16/0728:07> »
Here, I made one mostly, using the basic Priority system.

I haven't picked negative qualities, bought contacts, or spent knowledge points yet.  I also have over 20,000¥ remaining to spend.  Only Karma spent is on Positive Qualities, and 2 Karma spent on buying Rank 1 of Hardware.

[spoiler]== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character
Elf                               Movement: 4/8
                                  Composure: 9
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 3 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 11
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 23810

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: C,2
Special: E,0
Skills: B,3
Resources: A,4

== Attributes ==
BOD: 2                            CHA: 6
AGI: 2                            INT: 5
REA: 2                            LOG: 6 (8)
STR: 1                            WIL: 3
EDG: 1                           

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.0                      Initiative:           7 + 2d6
Physical Damage Track: 9          Rigger Init:          7 + 2d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:         
Physical: 2                       Matrix AR Init:       7 + 2d6
Mental: 8                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 10                        Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
Astral: 10

== Active Skills ==
Computer (Matrix Search)          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14 (16)
Con                               Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Cybercombat                       Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Electronic Warfare                Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Etiquette                         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Hacking                           Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 14
Hardware                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 9
Leadership                        Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Negotiation                       Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11
Pistols (Semi-Automatics)         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 7 (9)

== Knowledge Skills ==
(Unpurchased)

== Qualities ==
First Impression
Low-Light Vision
Online Fame
Overclocker
Profiler

== Lifestyles ==
Apartment (Low)  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Boosted Reflexes
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Tailored Pheromones Rating 3

== Armor ==
Actioneer Business Clothes          8
Helmet                              2
   +Camera Rating 6
      +Image Link
      +Flare Compensation
      +Thermographic Vision
      +Low Light
   +Flare Compensation
   +Respirator Rating 6
   +Trodes

== Weapons ==
Fichetti Security 600
   +Laser Sight
   +Stock
   Pool: 7 (9)    Accuracy: 7     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 3


== Commlink ==
Renraku Sensei (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
Renraku Tsurugi (ATT: 6, SLZ: 5, DP: 5, FWL: 3)
   +Vectored Signal Filter
   +All Common Programs (800¥)
   +All Hacking Programs (8000¥)

== Gear ==
Fake SIN (UCAS) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Cyberdeck License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Pistol License) Rating 4
Micro-Transceiver
Tag Eraser
Trodes (Stylish Hat)

== Vehicles ==
Ford Americar (Sedan)
   +Sensor Array Rating 2
[/spoiler]

If the social skill pools seem low, it's because they aren't taking into account any of the variables of Tailored Pheremones or Online Fame, combined with Profiler (which can also cause a penalty).

Like I said, they're not that great in combat, but they can safely fulfill two other roles.

Nice.  You really want Data Jacks and Antenna for Noise Reduction, you've got the cash.  I'd also go with Sleeping Tiger Armor from Run and Gun if you can, and dump the Pistol for Sneaking (Urban).  If you're playing the Face/Decker you're going to be pretty much playing a solo game until someone rolls initiative, you can take a break then.   : )

fseperent

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« Reply #10 on: <06-19-16/0857:38> »
Here's a technomancer face.
Turned out more middle of the road than I expected

[spoiler]
Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 2, A 3, R 2, S 1, W 4, L 4, I 4, C 6, ESS 6, EDG 3, R 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 12
Limits: Physical 2, Mental 6, Social 10
Physical Initiative: 6+1D6
Matrix Initiative: 8+4D6
Active Skills: Acting Group 5, Compiling 4, Computer (Matrix Search +2) 5, Cybercombat 6, Electronic Warfare 4, Hacking (vs. Hosts +2) 6, Hardware 1, Influence Group 5, Intimidation 5, Perception (Visual +2) 6, Pilot Ground Craft 1, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 4, Registering 4, Software 4
Knowledge Skills: Matrix Design 5, Matrix Security Procedures 5, Psychology 4, Seattle 4
Languages: English N
Qualities: Allergy, Common (Mild): Soy, Code of Honor: White Hats, the Code of the Hacker (10dicepool vs. 4), Codeslinger: Hack on the Fly, First Impression, Profiler, Technomancer
Complex Forms: Resonance Spike, Transcendent Grid
Vehicles:
   Dodge Xenon [Handling 3/2, Speed 4/3, Accel 2, Body 8, Armor 6, Pilot 2, Sensor 2, Seats 4]
      Gear:
         Gridlink
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
Gear:
   Actioneer Business Clothes
   Concealable Holster
   Executive Suite w/ Custom Fit, Increase Social Limit by 2, Newest Model
   Identity: Specify Name w/ Fake License: Driving (3), Fake License: Pistols (3), Fake SIN (3), (1 month) Low Lifestyle
   Nightshade/Moonsilver w/ Custom Fit, Increase Social Limit by 1
   Quick-Draw Holster
   Transys Avalon
Weapons:
   Colt America L36 [Light Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP –, SA, 11 (c)] w/ (110x) Regular Ammo, (2x) Spare Clips
   Colt Government 2066 [Heavy Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP -1, SA, 14 (c)] w/ Laser Sight, (280x) Regular Ammo, (3x) Spare Clips
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 2, Loyalty 2)
Infobroker (Connection 2, Loyalty 2)
Mr. Johnson (Connection 2, Loyalty 2)
Street Doc (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Starting ¥: 1,675 + (3D6 × 60)¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2016 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.
[/spoiler]

Aazen

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« Reply #11 on: <06-19-16/1512:25> »
Talked it over with the GM. He skipped over the Technomancer chapter. No one else in the party is familiar with it either. So I'm going to skip it in order to not slow things down. So Decker with Face skills it is.

firebug

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« Reply #12 on: <06-20-16/0308:33> »
Nice.  You really want Data Jacks and Antenna for Noise Reduction, you've got the cash.  I'd also go with Sleeping Tiger Armor from Run and Gun if you can, and dump the Pistol for Sneaking (Urban).  If you're playing the Face/Decker you're going to be pretty much playing a solo game until someone rolls initiative, you can take a break then.   : )

Those augments would be good.  Though the Antenna is a bit unsubtle and makes it pretty clear you're a decker since most people wouldn't replace their ears with antenna.  With a jack, Signal Scrubber, and the Vectored Signal Filter, you'll be fine.  Noise isn't that big a deal.

Armor choice is spot on, better than the one I arbitrarily picked.  I dunno about sneaking, since it's usually something that causes a lot of problems if you screw up.  I would, however, replace Pistols with Automatics (SMG) or something though...  Easier to hit with, allows suppressive fire if you just can't hit anything.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Hobbes

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« Reply #13 on: <06-20-16/0817:40> »
Obvious cyberware is fairly common, shouldn't be an issue, and the Antenna do have a retractable option.  And double digit Noise Reduction is a good thing.  Lets you play VR decker from your car (it's got an auto pilot, just have it driving in circle).  Most of the time I say go with AR decking and be there with the team, but in this characters case, I'd avoid that whenever possible.  Might just be me. 

JmOz01

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« Reply #14 on: <06-20-16/2033:52> »
An ODD way to go would be to use magic instead of tech.  Noise reduction is an issue...