NEWS

Con and Specializations

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adzling

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« Reply #15 on: <06-12-16/1124:17> »
A Con is inherently a lie or untruth.
So Con: Truth would not fly at my table.

IMHO your examples would be better served by leadership.

Beta

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« Reply #16 on: <06-12-16/1317:33> »
Leadership?  Interesting!  We'd debated etiquette, negotiate, and con, but hadn't thought leadership. Will have to return to this discussion in my game.
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adzling

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« Reply #17 on: <06-12-16/1555:25> »
Negotiate implies parties with opposing interests.

Leadership covers a range of things from outright commanding a subordinate, imposing your will on others and IMHO would also cover convincing g someone of the truth of your statements.

You really need all 5 social skills to handle all social situations (con, ettiquette, leadership, intimidation, negotiating)

BrysenBlue

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« Reply #18 on: <06-12-16/1722:50> »
How do y'all feel about misdirection? Kind of like deflecting a question to change the subject. It could be done by replying with a tangential question or answering with something barely relevant. Well hell, what about straight up lying? EX:

KE: "Why do you have a gun?"
PC: [bold face lie]

Would you as the GM have the player roll con? Would you rather restrict con to actively fooling someone to release valuables such as nuyen or expensive things?

I believe (and feel free to disagree) but Con is aggressive and Etiquette is defensive.  So I would think you would roll your etiquette to explain away why you have the gun. Whereas Con would be used to talk someone into giving you their gun or convincing them that something they might have recently found rightfuly belongs to you.

adzling

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« Reply #19 on: <06-12-16/1800:39> »
ettiquette is the ability to fit into various social situations through body language, situation specific language (think slang and corp-speak etc) and other social cues.

It is essentially a method to convince someone that you are part of their social group.

IT IS NOT anything related to any kind of active (or defensive) con or similar.

It's mostly helpful in helping you understand when to bow to a sarariman, when to growl at a threatening gang member and when to lick boot and in what manner to lick said boot.

etc

BrysenBlue

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« Reply #20 on: <06-12-16/1823:26> »
It says it allows you to recover from any failed social roll with etiquette. If that didn't include, explaining why you are carrying a firearm in a public school... what does?

Glyph

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« Reply #21 on: <06-13-16/0139:54> »
I can save you from a "social blunder", which is a lot more limited than "any failed social roll"  It is a mechanic mainly there to let PCs recover from gaffes that the player made, which the character would be less likely to make.  Explaining away things like carrying a gun, or not having an ID badge in a restricted area, fall under con.

adzling

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« Reply #22 on: <06-14-16/1048:31> »
what glyph said.
TL:DR you are failing to understand the difference between "player" and "PC". Etiquette is for saving your hoop when the PLAYER does something that would cause the PC social problems, then the PC gets to roll etiquette to recover.

It is most assuredly NOT a way to recover from all social rolls.

BrysenBlue

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« Reply #23 on: <06-14-16/1524:40> »
So... if your character called a NeoNet operative a Dandelion-Eater or a Trog to his face, he can't play it off like a joke with etiquette... unless the player said it as an accident?

Beta

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« Reply #24 on: <06-14-16/1542:44> »
If you decided to directly say that, then I'd think know, you can't laugh it off so easily.

But if the player announced something like "I stride into the restaurant like I own the place, combat boots clacking on the floor, Ares Predator proudly displayed on my hip"  the gamemaster might say to use an etiquette roll to realize your faux pas before you fatally insult the local Yakuzza head, where maybe you start off on the wrong foot but manage to smooth it over with good manners.

At least, that is how I read it.
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speechthoughtmatrix

BrysenBlue

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« Reply #25 on: <06-14-16/1553:51> »
I dunno, that is pretty much what the Common Sense quality is for. I think our group will continue to use it as the justify/apologize/placate skill and keep using Con for fast-talking, deception and lying. lol

adzling

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« Reply #26 on: <06-14-16/1615:22> »
Ettiquette allows your character to fit into differing social situations and recover from player faux pauxs in the social arena that their character might understand but they do not (see my previous note re: knowing when to bow to a sarariman).

It is not the same as common sense quality which covers both player and character mistakes of all kinds.

Your free to do whatever you like at your table of course.

&#24525;

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« Reply #27 on: <06-14-16/2343:39> »
Sooo Fast-Talking and Seduction. No mas, gotcha.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #28 on: <06-16-16/0216:07> »
So... if your character called a NeoNet operative a Dandelion-Eater or a Trog to his face, he can't play it off like a joke with etiquette... unless the player said it as an accident?

Other way around.

Quote from: SR5 pg 141, Using Etiquette
The skill is not meant to replace role-playing, but it can save you from a social blunder that you (the player) make when your character probably wouldn’t have. When this happens, make an Etiquette Test against a threshold equal to the severity of the blunder (set by the gamemaster using the Success Test Thresholds table, p. 45). A successful test means your character recovers from the misstep.

If you (as a player) do something that is socially "wrong" then the Etiquette skill is there for the GM to say "your character realizes that doing that isn't a good idea in this social setting."

In the example of bringing a gun into a school, it doesn't let you explain away to someone confronting you. Feeding them some line about how you are an undercover cop or other figure that should be allowed to have a gun would be a Con Test. Etiquette would be "oh jeeze, I completely forgot I had that on me, I'm so sorry. I'm just going to run out to my car and put this back in my lockbox, I'll be right back."

I have used Etiquette on several occasions as methods to see if the runners are "fitting in" and only occasionally have to have them make etiquette tests to catch themselves. Another good use of etiquette, would be pro-active on the player's part, things like asking if an action would draw unwanted attention, or using it to know what the protocol is in a given social situation.

Reaver

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« Reply #29 on: <06-16-16/0557:25> »
Etiquette is also your default mode for social interactions, you know, when you are not trying to Con, or fast talk someone.... just fitting in, having a drink and shooting the shit...

It's the skill the allows you to go into the rough clubs or the fancy restaurants without making an ass of yourself, or getting shot. And it covers a lot more then just the words that come out of your character's mouth, but also his knowledge of acceptable wear, manners, slang, body language, social customs and norms.

For example a good roll on an Etiquette test for a socialite dinner party would tell you that you need to have a high standard of dress, not to swear like a sailor; and that farting and then sticking your finger in your ass to 'dirty sanchez' the girl next to you is not acceptable.
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