[FastJack]

On SR4A, p. 228 are the rules for Building/Coding Commlinks:

Commlink Component	Threshold	Interval
Processor (Response)	Rating x 2	1 day
Sim Module	10	1 day
Wireless Radio (Signal)	Rating x 2	1 day

Software	Threshold	Interval
Firewall	Rating x 2	3 months
System	Rating x 2	6 months

[Bradd]

That table doesn't tell the whole story though. Hardware mods also cost half of purchase price (SR4A p. 227), which only works for upgrades that actually have a purchase price. Otherwise you need to do something like the custom modification rules in Arsenal (p. 128).

[Kontact]

Also, it doesn't have any mention of the related availability of the parts used to build the hardware.

...Not to mention how stupid it is to basically be able to make 4,000¥ per day by rushing the job, using edge rerolls and being a wicked logic monkey.

I've got a character who rolls 16 dice on hardware, and could throw more with time.  With an edge reroll on each test, that's an average of 18 hits per day of double-time work, so cranking out 1.5 R6 chips per day of work.
6k a day to stay at home and build chips?  Why would you risk your life if you could make that cash from home? 

That build hardware table is something which should have been blacked out by hand in every copy of the book.

[FastJack]

Also, it doesn't have any mention of the related availability of the parts used to build the hardware.

...Not to mention how stupid it is to basically be able to make 4,000¥ per day by rushing the job, using edge rerolls and being a wicked logic monkey.

I've got a character who rolls 16 dice on hardware, and could throw more with time.  With an edge reroll on each test, that's an average of 18 hits per day of double-time work, so cranking out 1.5 R6 chips per day of work.
6k a day to stay at home and build chips?  Why would you risk your life if you could make that cash from home? 

That build hardware table is something which should have been blacked out by hand in every copy of the book.

That's a little harsh. Could someone create a character that does that? Sure! And in D&D I'll make my expert blacksmith that has a steady income and doesn't have to worry about getting killed from invading a dragon's lair.

Think of it this way instead. The rules are there so that when the PC has that contact that builds his gear for him, you now can see how long it may take them to make it and how much it will cost.

[Lansdren]

Building the high level stuff will always be more fantasy then reality due to the down time.

If I'm in a group and one player (the hacker) wants six months of down time so he can crank out some super programm for our next run I cant say I will be amused. Unless you want to sit out of the runs for the next six month and lose out on the money and karma forcing the rest of the team to downtime to your song is abit selfish.

[Kontact]

Most gene mods take 1-3 months of tank time.

Sometimes a brother needs to take some time off.

That said, it's not difficult to get a programming pool over 20 + edge and the extended time can be halved by using a Programming Environment and halved again by Rushing the Job.  So, 6 months becomes 6 weeks and 3 months becomes 3 weeks. (elsewhere they say that a month is considered 4 weeks)

Not to mention sleep regulators giving you at least 5 more hours a day to get your programming done in addition to your running responsibilities.

Suddenly dudes are all knee deep in quality code.

[Lansdren]

Most gene mods take 1-3 months of tank time.

Sometimes a brother needs to take some time off.

That said, it's not difficult to get a programming pool over 20 + edge and the extended time can be halved by using a Programming Environment and halved again by Rushing the Job.  So, 6 months becomes 6 weeks and 3 months becomes 3 weeks. (elsewhere they say that a month is considered 4 weeks)

Not to mention sleep regulators giving you at least 5 more hours a day to get your programming done in addition to your running responsibilities.

Suddenly dudes are all knee deep in quality code.

Granted I will give you there are ways of speeding things up but I dont think officially the sleep regulator will give you more time to work. personally I would house rule it does but that is as I say a house rule.

[Ultra Violet]

But Edge could be used to half the time as well (see SR4 "Tweaking the rules" since 2nd Print or SR4A) and a critical success (4 hits more than needed to reach the threshold) could reduce the time as well, if the GM say so.

That brings us up to 1/16 of the corresponding period. And no house rule is used.
If we want the non plus ultra than we use a UV node with a alternative subjective time (speeding it up like 10 times faster) But this is a fairytale and most GM wouldn't allow such Timeframe Pimping...

Brings me to another maximum Rating...
Reality Filter 10+ (Inherent Program) for an AI with a System 7, as base for an own UV node. Is it possible? If not, why not?

[Wraith235]

to the OP ... your forgetting that system is also limited by the response..... system 8 on a response 6 = system 6

page 222 SR4A

The System program is limited by the base Response rating of the
device it is on: if the base Response rating of the device is lower than the
System rating, then the System rating is set to equal the Response rating.

Also note that you can only increase an attribute by +2 above the origional rating

now that Im looking at it (Boy have I been doing it wrong in the past) a 6 response is the Absolute max you can get ....unless I am missing additional commlink modles

Fairlight caliban is a Response 4 Signal 5 .... and is the absolute best you can buy.... add 2 to response ... and bam your capped at 6

Note that also any matrix atribute can only be increased by +2 per attribute

you can build your Response 6 module at a cost of 4000 12(1day) extended test

but there is no possible way to get a response of 6+ unless you are running a reality filter and win the test since the rules dont cover Building from scratch your own response or signal

Page 198 Sidebar Unwired

Military-grade Hardware
Though we do not offer Availability and Costs for Response and Signal components at a Rating higher than 6, this does not mean that such com-ponents do not exist. High Response components do exist  in military and elite corporate circles, and occasionally even the shadows, but they are highly-protected and valued, and not easily acquired. High Signal radio transceivers are easier to acquire, being available commercially with the right licenses, but are typically much larger units of no use to a mobile hacker. Ultimately it is the gamemaster’s choice whether to allow such items in her game, though they should be expensive and diffcult to obtain, possibly being the focal point of an entire shadowrun.


pg 227 SR4A Using Hardware

You can also use it to build your own hardware upgrades; use the Building Hardware Table, keeping in mind that the cost for parts is half the purchase price of the upgrade

note that the Word "upgrade" is used ... that table is not for not Making your own Response Chips

I have run into the fact that designing / making your own Items from scratch is beyond the scope of Shadowrun

[Ultra Violet]

OK my bad I meant Logic 7, but we're talking about AI's and AI have other rules (see UW, p. 165-170, or more likely RC, p. 88-91) and limits. One is that its orgin programs called "Inherent Programs" are not limited by the System or Response.

... the upper limit of the rating of an inherent program is equal to twice the AI’s System rating.

And the second point is the Home Node (see same page), it increases the Ratings of a Node by half (round up) of the AI's Attributes. In my case increasing the System Rating by +4 so a System 6 would become a System 10 (Home Node). And since the System Rating of the Node is the System Rating of the AI, it get a 10, too.

Now we're looking at UV Nodes (see UW, p. 171-172) and their Requirments... mmmh The minimum Response and System ratings needed is 10, representing a pinnacle of processing ability check! & check! ... and an OS customized and optimized for high-resolution graphic displays, physics, and other details of a realistic virtual environment. mmmh let me think could it be the same, what a Reality Filter does? Which we happened to have at rating 10+

The last point are the rumors about AI's who can create such UV Nodes... like Alice...

What do you think now, Wraith235? Does it work? And if not where is the flaw?

[Wraith235]

hmmmm thought this started out as a basic matrix question ....

and just realized 1/2 my post is gone

also I must admit .... I know jack didily about AI's ....

I'll stay in the meat thanks