[Michael Chandra]

Only if you insist on taking the term dog brain literally.

Are they anything other than a tool? Do they make decisions on their own? Or are they a slave to their programming?

If the GM has full control and it makes its own decisions and does not just get directly controlled, then it's an actual NPC and is allowed to think tactical. But unless you introduce a Tactical Autosoft, no I do not believe Drones, Hosts or IC should save up Edge. They're one track minds: Destroy is the word. Spend it or lose it.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

A high rating Pilot program is smarter than any dog.  Probably many Trogs

[ZeConster]

Anyone who thinks drones could ever be truly smarter than critters, no matter their Pilot level, instead of simply following their programming, has never had pets and something the pets wanted but weren't allowed to have in the same house together. That sort of creativity and non-linear thinking is only available to AIs.

[Finstersang]

Nice to see that the discussion already shifted from "Can Drones (and critters, hosts etc.) earn Edge" to "Can they use it wisely or do they always ause Edge in a hand-to-mouth fashion?"

Little side note: Pooling Edge usually isn´t a good strategy for autonomous Drones anyways. They dont´t have huge dice pools and no Edge Attribute, so rerolling failures or adding explosive dice is either not possible or not worth it, compared to just rerolling hits of the opposition. The most interesting things they could do besidesthat is Anticipate and a few other Edge Attack Actions and maybe the +3 Initiative Boost. I´d say that these are open for Dog-Brains as well, but only when they are explicitly instructed to save and use their accumulated advantages in this fashion instead of just spendig them straight away. 

Same for Hosts (assuming that they can accumulate Edge, which I definitely support) as well, only that the "reroll failures" edge boost is stronger here. It´s a good houserule standard procedure if the default host just uses a simple "hand to mouth" strategy, i.e. uses every point of Edge to reroll dice straight away. However, some hosts may have been adjusted by their owners (or creative security spiders) to employ a different strategy, like provoking mistakes and glitches (i.e. the host pools Edge to use the "count 2 as 1" Edge boost) or priorizing tracking (i.e  the host pools Edge to enhance Track IC). This is something a GM could/should note in advance, in addition to other details of the host settings, like IC loadout.

Think that gives too much power to hosts? Well, keep in mind that these are controlled by GM caprice anyways. If the GM decides that the host is using Edge in a certain strategic fashion and uses this to give the decker a harder time than usual, (s)he could have achieved just the same by simply increasing the host attributes

[Gareth]

Anyone who thinks drones could ever be truly smarter than critters, no matter their Pilot level, instead of simply following their programming, has never had pets and something the pets wanted but weren't allowed to have in the same house together. That sort of creativity and non-linear thinking is only available to AIs.

I find it hard to believe that there is nothing bridging the gap between programs and AI,

Regardless, look at the coding of the enemy in RTS games (or chess computers) and how it has been improved over the last few decades. Sure, its primitive and everything has to be coded in, but they can be very sophisticated,

And consider that the best "dog brains" are likely coded by AIs...

Not dissing animal intelligence here at all, but this is scifi and perhaps you are underestimating the potential of technology,

[Michael Chandra]

If the Drone is running a Tactics Autosoft that's specifically designed to think further ahead in tactical situations, then sure you could probably program it to do something with Edge. But a normal drone, I vehemently disagree, even if it's a Pilot 4.

And again, since drones are not full NPCs, you open up the door for players trying to lay claim to that Edge and abusing drones as edge factories for themselves, since giving Edge to others is not a 'bonus' you earn so would be reasonably excluded from the max-2 limit. I'm fine with players passing Edge to the Decker for getting that crucial hack in, but not fine with allowing players to argue they can throw a bunch of weak drones at their enemies, firing 1 at a time to earn 2 Edge, then all passing 1 Edge to the player. So unless we get VERY explicit rules governing exactly how Drones can use Edge, I would only allow them to immediately spend it on their own rolls, not ever save it up.

Full NPCs, no problem. An AI, a critter (for most of those I'd follow full grunt rules anyway), sure they can save it up. But not the mere simulacrum of intelligence that is nothing other than "the built-in programming the vehicle has to move itself and respond to surrounding conditions." If it's beyond that, chances are you're already dealing with a real AI, which is not something you want running your drones and would not be directly under your control.

[penllawen]

This interpretation of Edge as being something that strictly requires sentience and conscious planning to use effectively is, I believe, not supported by the CRB.

It defines Edge as follows:

Much of Shadowrun, Sixth World is structured around gaining and using Edge. One way to think of Edge is building up tactical advantages that culminate in a sudden move toward victory. It’s Muhammad Ali playing rope-a-dope with George Foreman for five rounds before turning it around and going aggressively toward an eighth-round knockout. It’s soon-to-be Emperor Babur at Panipat using speed and training to envelop a superior force until they were so battered that they could be swept away. It’s both what you plan for and the unexpected moment when you seize an opportunity and make it your own.

(Emphasis mine.) Drones and spirits can get lucky just as easily as anyone else can.

Furthermore, many of the Edge actions are described in only abstract form -- "re-roll a die, turn a 4 into a 5" -- that are as easily described by luck as they are by planning.

So in the CRB I see no hard requirement to tie Edge use, or the form of Edge use, to the intelligence level or planning capability of the entity that has it.

Edit - formatting

[Xenon]

Are we arguing if drones don't compare AR vs DR...? Of course they do. There is even a supportive example of this on p. 201 (but in this case AR vs DR was too close to yield edge in any direction).

If their AR is 4 points higher than the defender DR then they will gain an edge which mean that they get to for example re-roll one dice.




Spirits would follow the same rules as drones if it wasn't for the fact that there is an explicit rule for Spirits

p. 147 Spirits and Edge
Spirits cannot gain Edge for themselves or their summoner, but they still have an Attack Rating in case the defender gains Edge. Their summoner or an ally can spend 2 Edge to give the spirit 1 Edge as per normal rules, which the spirit can then use normally. The spirit must be within (Force x 10) meters of anyone who wishes to give it Edge.

No such rule exist for drones.

[penllawen]

Are we arguing if drones don't compare AR vs DR...? Of course they do. There is even a supportive example of this on p. 201 (but in this case AR vs DR was too close to yield edge in any direction).

No. We’re discussing what happens to the Edge after they earn it (from AR-versus-DR, or any other mechanic.)

[Finstersang]

For me, this is less of a rules question and more of a GM-best-practice question. Granted, I´m usually GMing myself 

About the potential players cheesing around-problem: Keep in mind that the GM has the final say about the tactical choices of a Drone, Spirit or other "pet" a player deploys. The players gives them orders and maybe some suggestion on how the GM might interpret that order when it comes to specific things like Edge use.

Here´s what I´d do (assuming that Drones can earn and use Edge no, screw that. They can, plain and simple. If someone at CGL decides to disimprove that by putting out clarification on Drones not being able to earn their own Edge via Errata or Rigger 6.0 or whatnot, I´m going to houserule it anyway...):

• The default strategy is "hand to mouth", i.e. using Edge on the same Action that made them earn it. If possible, they will reroll their opponent´s dice, then their own. If using Edge offers no benefit at all (f.i. when an Attacker misses anyways), the Edge is safed, but used at the next possible opportunity. If the drone has no specific order that might suggest another use of Edge, that´s how they will always do it.
• If the drone has a a specific order (and is smart enough to understand the ramifications of that order), they might decide to safe up Edge for something else. Examples:
• "Drone Alpha, try not to get hit" -> Beep Boop Beep, I better take cover. Also, I should save the point of Edge from my next shot for my defense tests.
• "Drone Beta, help get Drone Gamma a better shot." -> Beep Boop Beep, I should give Edge to Drone Gamma. (There´s other ways to interpret this order, though. But it´s a valid interpretation. There´s also enough to possible ingame explanation - sharing target data, flanking etc. - to not rule this out as "unrealistic")
• "Drone Gamma, wait until you have the enemies position and then shoot them all at once" -> Beep Boop Beep, I should safe up until I have enough Edge to use Anticipation. (That´s something I would only allow for smarter Combat Drones. It´s quite iconic for drones to use Anticipatory attacks, though.)
• When in doubt, the GM can always demand a test from the Drone to determine how well the order has been understood.

[Finstersang]

And about hosts (and unsupervised devices) defendin against hackers:

• I´d say that they act pretty much the same by default: First reroll hits of the opposition, then reroll failures, safe up for the next hacking defense tests if the current test can´t be improved by Edge anymore (which can be easily explained by the device/host getting spooked by the sloppy hacking attempt)
• However, it´s worth noting that with the "default" option to reroll dice, it´s not a total no-brainer to first reroll the hits of the opposition and then reroll your own failures, because the hits of your defense tests are also added to the hacker´s OS. A computer-savvy character or a security spider might decide to rely more on OS and configure the host/device to priorize getting hits over denying hits. It´s up to you if this is really a valid strategy, but it´s somewhat reasonable. I doubt that runners will like that approach, because you are pretty much relying on the The Man
• If the hacker/spider is really good and/or likes unconventional approaches, (s)he might configure the host/device to employ a different Edge strategy at the GM´s discretion. Examples might include:
  
  • Priorizing defense against certain Matrix Actions, f.i. Traces (i.e. saving up Edge from other defense test to defend against that specific action)
  • Luring attackers into glitches and mistakes (i.e. pooling Edge to use the "Count 2s as 1s Edge boost" whenever possible)
  • Priorizing offense over defense (i.e. saving Edge to be used by the IC´s counterattacks... Wait, do hosts and their IC share an Edge pool? Well, i just decided they do. Makes sense, doesn´t it?  )

[Michael Chandra]

Only 1 Edge Expenditure per action: Cannot both reroll own and opponent dice, need to pick.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Only 1 Edge Expenditure per action: Cannot both reroll own and opponent dice, need to pick.

Arguably, you can spend X edge to reroll X dice... A of your own and B of the opponent's so long as A+B=X

[Michael Chandra]

I recall being told explicitly it's either one or the other, though.

[sigfriedmcwild]

Both kinds of rerolls are listed under the same boost, so you should be able to mix and match

Reroll one die: Pick any die and reroll it. It can be yours or your opponent’s, but the result stands no matter what you roll. This is done after all rolls have been made.

Oh no wait, buried in the wall of text at the start of the edge section (emphasis mine):

Characters can only have one expenditure of Edge per round action. That expenditure cannot include multiple boosts or actions, or a combination of the two, but the same boost can be multiplied if the player wishes (e.g., spending one Edge allows the player to reroll one die; they could spend two to reroll two dice). In those cases, the expenditure of Edge must apply to the same roll—you cannot, for example, buy a reroll on your test and also on your opponent’s test.