[Shinobi Killfist]

Yeah once passes are gone one roll or one per turn the difficulty for me as a gm is about the same. Passes are a pain.

As for potentially bottom turn people then going first. Not a huge issue for me and depending on how delaying your action works it may still be possible, just as a tactical choice instead of random.

[BeCareful]

Also: yes, I'm glad I accidentally got the quick-start rule mixed up with the actual rule. I mean, not that it happened, but that it got corrected. I'm still hopefully optimistic about this, and want to read about Neo-Toronto (it isn't officially called that, but I want to call it that).

[Ghost Rigger]

Neo-Toronto

What now?

[BeCareful]

Uh, 30 Nights will feature stuff about Shadowrunning in Toronto. That's what I called it in my brief stint as GM when I put stuff there.

[Michael Chandra]

Yes there is binding, but it took time, resources, and could have dire consequences for the character if the player rolled poorly (spirits also don't take kindly to it either).

Tell that to the Elf that literally could force a 9-Spirit Army down enemies' throats... -_-

It's not wrong, but OTOH the alternative to rolling once is rolling every turn... and under that paradigm you can go last in one round then go first in the next round, doubling actions in a row.

Maybe that's ok... the designers this time around in 6th decided it wasn't ok.  Or at least less preferable to rolling once and having a static "who goes" order for the whole fight.  It's essentially the same thing d20 does... and for good or ill d20's turn sequence is MUCH simpler to manage than 5E's.

I'm looking forward to 6e initiative tracking not requiring anything more than organizing a list of PC and NPC names in turn order.

Yeah, it will be easier if the amount of Initiative-changes is smaller, and I don't have to constantly track changes every time someone does something. Now I can just grab my Starfinder Initiative Board and use that.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yeah. I’m not sure how summoning a spirit and binding is weaker than a hermetic just binding. Also dice pools were generally different back then so outside min max extremes a hermetic tossed like 6 dice to bind a elemental. I can’t remember if your sorcery pool could be used or not. The TN was the spirits force so you generally didn’t go crazy on force. And it cost $1,000 per force to summon. Nothing like a hermetic whistling up a pack of elementals for a fight then wiping them all out with a single attack. There goes 30k down the drain.

Now, just being able to summon multiple spirits even if a bit more limited in number sounds a lot more powerful. Though, it does sound due to dice pool differences their force will be lower. How they compare with all the other changes is yet to be seen. 

[incrdbil]

So, I'm late to this party, and still absorbing. I'm half torn between rules i love, and rules i hate. on the surface. I'm not liking, at all, how edge is used in this. Is it still a characteristic? If so, does this mean that that the  first rule of effective character generation will be to always max out edge> Because that sounds boring and cookie cutter as heck to me.

[Michael Chandra]

So, I'm late to this party, and still absorbing. I'm half torn between rules i love, and rules i hate. on the surface. I'm not liking, at all, how edge is used in this. Is it still a characteristic? If so, does this mean that that the  first rule of effective character generation will be to always max out edge> Because that sounds boring and cookie cutter as heck to me.

Since you'll probably gain Edge faster, the main reason to raise the stat is to be able to keep more inbetween encounters. If you're always spending it asap, there's not that much value in starting high.

Also, don't forget that 1 Edge point will do less than in SR5.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I suspect until we see and absorb how edge works in these rules we won’t know how important it is.

Maxing human edge on the surface seems pointless. If you gain up to 2 a turn, why have 7 as your start when 7 is the absolute max. Maybe human have a higher absolute max. But unless there is some whopper of a 8 edge move or some great gain by using 2 4 point edge moves I don’t see the value.

From what we’ve seen it’s probably nice to have some edge but not essential as you gain it in the encounter. Edge was powerful in 5e I never felt a urge to use it often. It’s alright to miss occasionally. As 4 points is the reroll all failures point that might be a good target as your get out of jail free card for boning that dodge roll against the assault cannon. 

But it’s all just conjecture at this point.

[kyoto kid]

Yes there is binding, but it took time, resources, and could have dire consequences for the character if the player rolled poorly (spirits also don't take kindly to it either).

Tell that to the Elf that literally could force a 9-Spirit Army down enemies' throats... -_-

...dealt with that in my 2E TT campaign, actually had two of them, both hermetics as back then shamans could only summon one spirit at a time unless they called in a Greatform (had a shaman geek himself trying that once).  Yeah made me feel I was GMing a Warhammer miniatures campaign instead of Shadowrun.

To have that many bound spirits in 5E you need to be a pretty uber level mage who probably glows like the Vegas Strip in astral space.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I really don’t get this line. It’s literally easier to have a spirit army in 5e than 1-3e.  It’s cheaper and easier to pull off. Every mage can do it.

[kyoto kid]

...crikey my Black Magic spell slinger Wednesday feels she's doing good if she can summon a single Force 6 spirit of Man with at least 3 services (so she can give it one of her spells to cast) and not take any drain.

[Shinobi Killfist]

...crikey my Black Magic spell slinger Wednesday feels she's doing good if she can summon a single Force 6 spirit of Man with at least 3 services (so she can give it one of her spells to cast) and not take any drain.

While binding a force 9 in 5e is a pain summoning one is easy peasey. And if you want to be summoning focussed in 5e binding force 6 is pretty easy.

Summoning 6+magic6=12 dice vs 6 on the summon.

Bind you just need one hit and it adds to the summoning hits. 12v12 for a mage who just took the skills. Specialization, mentor spirit, a focus it should be 16-23 dice for a focussed out of the gate pc summoner vs 12. Which also could semi reliably bind a higher force. The drain would suck but it wasn’t a peach in earlier editions. And binding is done when you have enough time on your hands to recover, you expect some drain. 

[Iron Serpent Prince]

Bind you just need one hit and it adds to the summoning hits.

Two hits.  The first one doesn't count.

I think this was done instead of taking a service to allow the binder to Bind the spirit.

Mathematically, it almost works the same, except you can no longer spend the spirits last service and fail to Bind.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Bind you just need one hit and it adds to the summoning hits.

Two hits.  The first one doesn't count.

I think this was done instead of taking a service to allow the binder to Bind the spirit.

Mathematically, it almost works the same, except you can no longer spend the spirits last service and fail to Bind.

Ah I forgot. Still it’s pretty easy to get piles of services for bound spirits.