[Tecumseh]

Cyberlimbs are complicated.

I've gone back and forth. The Cyberarm of Awesome annoyed me in 4th Edition but didn't bother me in 5th Edition. I respect that 6th Edition is trying to introduce some caps so that Sir Derps-a-Lot the Decker - who doesn't have the coordination to pick his nose successfully - doesn't turn into a surgical assassin when he picks up a pistol simply because he has an Agility 9 cyberarm.

A lot of this comes down to opportunity cost. In 6E you can have an arm that's maxed out in Strength and Agility, but at the cost of not being able to fit in other toys like armor and cyberspurs. (Of course, Strength barely matters anymore if you're playing by the rules as written, so leaving the cyberlimb at Strength 2 barely impedes you and frees up capacity for other things. But I houserule extensively so this is cold comfort for me.) As such, it boils down to personal tastes about how much a limb should be able to do, which in turn leads to questions about what's fun vs. what's realistic and what your preferences are on that spectrum, or even a debate about what qualifies as 'realistic' in a futuristic cyberpunk setting with heavy fantasy elements, which is why I said cyberlimbs are complicated.

That said, i would agree that 6E has gone too far, especially in comparison to other viable options. I have a four-cyberlimb sammy in 5E that I couldn't make work in 6E, so off he goes to the retirement home to be replaced by Mr. Used Muscle Replacement 4.

[Leith]

Cyberlimbs give extra health though. Seems like that could be super useful in a game where armor no longer reduces physical damage to stun and you have to roll pure body to resist damage.

[Alrician]

On Topic:

maybe you can help me clarifying:

Cyberhand obvious, Character Agility 6:

The basic cyberhands starts with physical attributes 2. So when I shoot with this basic hand I use agility 2? Or do I use agility 8 (6 from char und 2 from hand?)

No I increase attributes. I put 4 points of agility into that hand. "Cyberlimbs can be used to add to either Agility, Armor, or Strength of the user". Same Example, different options, which agility counts for shooting (or other things done with that hand):

A) Agility 10 (6 from char and 4 from increased attribute)

B) Agility 6 (2 from hand basic and 4 from increased attribute)

C) Agility 12 (6 from char, 2 from base hand, 4 from increased attribute)


well C feels already wrong.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

B)

[Alrician]

Okay, why?

"Cyberlimbs can be used to add to either Agility, Armor, or Strength of the user"

RAW it adds to the attribute of the user, not the limb.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

SR6W CRB pg 288:

Attributes for limbs may vary, but dice pools
are always built from the lowest attribute of all
the limbs unless the test solely involves that singular
location (gamemaster’s discretion). Various
enhancements, which can be purchased along with
the limb, allow certain skills to be used with a
heightened attribute.

Also: keep in mind there's such a thing as an Augmented Maximum.  If your natural Agility is 6, the highest you can push a cyberlimb is 10.

the rest of the text of the quote you selected:

Cyberlimbs can be used to add to either Agility,
Armor, or Strength of the user. The maximum
augmented increase of 4 is in place here, so don’t
buy an attribute increase that would increase one
of your attributes higher than 4, as it would be a
waste.

[Alrician]

Maybe your last quote of the rulebook confused me, being not a native English speaker (or writer).

The maximum augmented increase of 4 is in place here,..

period. no need to discuss this further.

But then the sentence continues. So I could buy a further increase but it would be a waste. Why am I able to do so? Would this be a waste on that limb or overall? Is there a mechanic ongoing that I did miss?

That confuses me a lot, maybe mostly language wise.

[Michael Chandra]

Well if you have a 2[8] limb and you have 3 yourself, you're capped at 3[7]. But if you buy an extra Agility later, you won't have to purchase a cyberlimb upgrade to get the full benefit.

If it were a modular cyberlimb, you could even switch out limbs. And you won't have to ever worry about their max being higher than you can use, since it simply means you're not getting all of their stat as bonus.

[Xenon]

maybe you can help me clarifying:

Cyberhand obvious, Character Agility 6:

The basic cyberhands starts with physical attributes 2. So when I shoot with this basic hand I use agility 2?

Yes.

Or do I use agility 8 (6 from char und 2 from hand?)

No, this is never how it works.

If you cut off your arm and put on a cybernetic arm then your cybernetic arm is not affected (positively or negatively) no matter what attribute your natural arm used have.

I put 4 points of agility into that hand. "Cyberlimbs can be used to add to either Agility, Armor, or Strength of the user". Same Example, different options, which agility counts for shooting (or other things done with that hand):

Now your natural agility is agility 6 and your hand is agility 6 which mean you will always use agility 6, no matter how many limbs that are involved in the test.

But then the sentence continues.

If you have Agility 6 but have a right obvious arm with agility 17 (base 2 + 15 capacity worth of agility augmentation) then you can still only benefit from agility 10 (since agility 6 + max augmented of 4 = 10).

You can still have an arm with agility 17, just that you can't utilize the last 7 points (yet). Right now they are wasted. But let us assume that you are an elf (which have a max agility rating of 7) and you spend 35 karma to raise your agility rating from 6 to 7. Now you would get to utilize agility 11 of your cyberarm (7+4=11).

[Alrician]

Finally I got it. The max. augmented depends only on Runners natural attributes. Not the bas attribute of the limb.

BUT...

so max. Agility for a cyberhand is 6. (base 2, capacity of 4 for +4 Agility).

So the ultimate high end AAA executive cyber limb Deltaware worth the lifetime salary of 1000 wageslaves could never be as dexterous as a gifted human (exceptional attribute quality).

That does not feel very cyberpunkish to me. Cyberlimbs should at last potentially be better than human flesh.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

That's a quirk of the capacity pricing of attribute increases and the capacity limitations of partial cyberlimbs.

Full replacements don't have that problem. To the same extent, anyway.

[DigitalZombie]

BUT...

so max. Agility for a cyberhand is 6. (base 2, capacity of 4 for +4 Agility).

So the ultimate high end AAA executive cyber limb Deltaware worth the lifetime salary of 1000 wageslaves could never be as dexterous as a gifted human (exceptional attribute quality).

That does not feel very cyberpunkish to me. Cyberlimbs should at last potentially be better than human flesh.

Thats how they work RAW. You should go look in the houserules thread, there are a couple of nifty tweaks there. Personally I think having the base cyberlimb =base unaugmented attribute is cool.

Would also make it possible for the troll to have a synthetic hand above str 4!

[Xenon]

A full arm have more capacity and thus can fit more attribute enhancement...

[Ajax]

So the ultimate high end AAA executive cyber limb Deltaware worth the lifetime salary of 1000 wageslaves could never be as dexterous as a gifted human (exceptional attribute quality).

Those sort of cyberlimbs aren’t in the core rulebook. One of the key concepts of the genre is that there is always something better available to someone with more money.

The global-elites (and their hired help) have all sorts of things that the typical shadowrunner (and especially starting level newbies) should only have heard about on trideo shows or as urban legend. Things like laser pistols, off-world habitats, life-extending gene therapies, teleportation magic, orbital satellite rail guns, and real beef.

The design specs or the protype (or the scientist that designed it) should serve as the MacGuffin for a shadowrun... or an entire campaign.

[DigitalZombie]

A full arm have more capacity and thus can fit more attribute enhancement...

Thats true, but still its weird that a troll cant have a synthetic arm at maximum racial stats, when humans can.
I mean a strong troll arm (say 1 from racial max =8) should have atleast as much capacity left as a strong human arm (say 1 from racial max =5).  Yet the troll arm only has 2 capacity left for synthetic arms, while the human arm would have 5.
I mean the troll arm is physically larger, the diameter of the arm is naturally bigger than the human arm. Putting in some larger pistons shouldnt take up % more capacity than human sized pistons in human sized arms.