Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: SwampFox on <01-12-17/2128:43>
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Okay, so before I get into the meat of this, I'd like to request constructive suggestions only please.
A recently uncovered plot hook in our campaign is that Allie, a human-raised wolf shapeshifter in the team, wants kids eventually. Her boyfriend/mate is Balthazar Black, a human high-functioning sociopath Black Mage whose player has confirmed out of play that if Allie were to die, it's pretty much guaranteed that Balthazar would go full toxic and begin absolutely decimating whatever faction was ultimately responsible for her death. And he wants to grant Allie's wish.
Now while adoption is of course on the table, Balthazar is nothing if not bull-headed. So he's approached a contact, a Doc that operates a Delta clinic, about the possibility of somehow figuring out how to give Allie a child that's actually theirs. Of course since Shapechange doesn't affect chromosome count (otherwise you'd be able to simply use Shapechang to dodge ritual magic due to the full-on genetic shift once you changed back) he can't just turn into a wolf and do the natural thing. The Doc promised to at least look into it, as while conventional medicine says it's not possible, conventional medicine also said that it wasn't possible to manipulate the Matrix through sheer mental power either thirty years ago.
So, my thought is that there are enough legends out there of shapeshifters having children with normal humans, that there may be a grain of truth buried in there somewhere. And there have to have been some fringe scientists and researchers that would have pursued the idea. As well as the possibility that some Megas may have investigated as ways to produce their own groups of company-loyal shapeshifters for use in their military forces or black bag operations. The biggest two possiblilties for doing this to my mind are MCT and Aztechnology, both of whom have a blatant disregard for sapient suffering head and shoulders above the other Megas, and are heavily involved in magical research. Other options include Sauder-Krup, or possibly some lore that Ghostwalker (aka Dollmaker) has kept hold of.
What I'm looking for are viable research lines that Mouse (the Doc contact) may find crumbs of, that could lead the team to places where the research would be held (and possibly other stuff for the rest of the team to make a profit off of in the bargain). I'd prefer for on-going experiments and tests rather than simply having it be mothballed in a server somewhere; though getting older research to help Mouse connect the dots is most definitely in the cards.
The final culmination I'm envisioning for all of this is (Matt, Lindsey, please don't read this if you're on here)
[spoiler]It's possible to use genetic recombination in conjunction with constant exposure to heightened mana levels (possibly aspected towards the Mega's preference to influence the developing shifter) to create viable embryos that can be either grown in an artificial womb (what the Megas are doing) or implanted into the original egg donor or another compatible shifter to come to term naturally (they can't use surrogate metahuman mothers because of the nature of the embryo, the surrogate's body will reject it, and there simply aren't enough shapeshifters to use as surrogates either). The mother would need to stay in one form or the other for the duration of the pregnancy in order to minimize stress on the fetus.[/spoiler]
Any feedback, suggestions or constructive commentary would be very much welcomed.
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If you are looking for canon, There is none.
This is covered on page 99 of Run Faster, under the Shape shifter description in the very first paragraph.
you would have to go WAY off canon to get what you want.
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Maybe I'm off-base here. But is there a particular reason they couldn't simply find a donor wolf to impregnate Allie? I know the goal would be to somehow have kid(s) that are actually their own (Allie + Balthazar), but we are talking about someone that is genetically a wolf, not human.
And really, it isn't so weird of a concept in the first place. For two humans, the same sort of thing would happen if a fertility clinic found that the man was infertile/unable to father a child. Like you said, adoption would be an option, but they might also choose to find a donor "father" and still have the woman be the true/genetic mother.
Then again, you might have meant that they want to have a human child...
That might be a bit more difficult. Although they might be able to do a similar thing. Get a donor egg and have Allie act as surrogate. I could see complications, but if she stays shifted in metahuman form the whole time, biologically speaking it should work. That part might require a bit of magical trickery to keep Allie's body from rejecting the ovum.
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Sadly, she can't stay in meta-human form the entire time... she has to sleep sometime and its the wolf form that is the natural, default state for Allie, Thus what she reverts back to when unconscious....
Like I said, by Canon, there is no way this is going to happen. You are talking to completely different species with different maturation, nutritional, hormonal, genetic, requirements and rates of growth.
By Canon, Allie is a Canine, and can breed with other canines to produce a litter of pups (not a singular child), of which, they will all be canines, with a very remote chance of one of them being awakened and a shifter as well.
Awakened genes do not breed true. Meaning even 2 awakened parents do not guarantee an awakened offspring! If this was true, the Corps would have enforced breeding programs to pop out an army of awakened Corp owned kiddies. Not that they haven't tried this trick - both Aztech and Mitsuhama had awakened breeding programs in the 2050s, which were utter failures. In fact, after 60 years of genetic research no Corp has ever indentified the genetic markers or code for magic, and they have had A LOT of samples to look at (As many awakened are required by law to submit a genetic sample!).
If you don't care about Canon, Do whatever you want to tell your story, its your game!
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A quote from the shift power: "Once the critter uses the shift power, it remains in its current form until it decides to shift back."
At least at my table, we ruled that it meant that Shifters don't revert back to their natural form when they fall unconscious (they do when they die, but that's a morbid tale for another day). I actually had an interesting time with that while playing my own Shifter. My GM would roll to see if she would "decide" to shift back in her sleep. This was particularly interesting, as her lover didn't know she was a shifter! She tried to avoid falling asleep when she stayed over just to be sure.
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A quote from the shift power: "Once the critter uses the shift power, it remains in its current form until it decides to shift back."
At least at my table, we ruled that it meant that Shifters don't revert back to their natural form when they fall unconscious (they do when they die, but that's a morbid tale for another day). I actually had an interesting time with that while playing my own Shifter. My GM would roll to see if she would "decide" to shift back in her sleep. This was particularly interesting, as her lover didn't know she was a shifter! She tried to avoid falling asleep when she stayed over just to be sure.
Interesting, That is not the way I have seen it in the fluff, or by any GMs I have played with. It's always been ruled that a loss of consciousness (or magic for background counts) results in a shifter reverting to their natural state, as it takes an act of Will to maintain the "Alien" form - as it is a sustained ability. (Although they do not gain the -2DP for doing so) . But its your table, do as you will.
it remains in its current form
until it decides to shift back. The critter does not suffer a –2
penalty for sustaining this power.
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Shift isn't a Sustained duration power. Which is why the specify that they don't change back until they choose to. And also likely why they reiterate the idea that they don't take any sort of "sustaining" penalty. Just for clarity.
I'm not familiar with much fluff that includes Shifters. Can you point me to a story that mentions a Shifter falling unconscious?
EDIT: Oh, but I am familiar with the rule that Background causes the reversion. But that stems from previous rules editions where Background directly reduced Magic Rating. If you Magic (actual or effective) hits 0 you lose all powers, which would include Shift, effectively removing the change (involuntarily). That no longer seems to be the case in 5e, though, since Background no longer reduces the Magic attribute. Shifters just always suffer from Background Count penalties (arguably a worse fate).
I went ahead and looked it up from 4th edition also. The wording is nearly identical, and (to me) it doesn't seem to imply that maintaining the Shift requires any sort of effort. More that the act of Shifting is the only time effort is exerted, and that maintaining the current form is "automatic" as it takes the shifter's decision to shift back.
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What I would do is to see with the other players (not playing Allie or Black) have a problem with making this the focus of at least part of the campaign. If they do (and as player I would love something like this, although my character might need more convincing) you can create a campaign out of it. Something like the 4th Edition Artifacts campaign, but the object here is something which makes what you want possible.
An object you might want to read up on is something from Kim Harrison's Hollows series. In those books (which I recommend as I think they are very good) there are werewolves, but they can't make more of themselves by biting humans (like in many legends), only by breeding. In some of the books there is an object (called the Focus), which is a cursed demon artifact which allows werewolves to be created by bite.
Make a similar object which allows a shapeshifter and a human to have babies (which would be a half-breed, who looks a bit like SURGEd individuals but no sense in telling your players that up front) . Start by having your doctor (or someone else) find some obscure reference about this (maybe have your runners find out while doing a run in secure library of someone who can have something like this), dating back to the 4th World maybe. Seeing the importance of this for their companions, they start looking for more information. As word of this starts spreading (they will have to ask contacts questions about some things), corporations starts to become interested for reasons mentioned in this topic and they also start checking this out. From there you can make it a rat race to the object with multiple people wanting it for their own purposes.
As another twist, maybe this object is something which made Drakes possible (dragon-human hybrids) and the great dragons have their own reason to have this thing. That way you can bring the really big power players into it as well, should you wish to do so. :P
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Shift isn't a Sustained duration power. Which is why the specify that they don't change back until they choose to. And also likely why they reiterate the idea that they don't take any sort of "sustaining" penalty. Just for clarity.
I'm not familiar with much fluff that includes Shifters. Can you point me to a story that mentions a Shifter falling unconscious?
EDIT: Oh, but I am familiar with the rule that Background causes the reversion. But that stems from previous rules editions where Background directly reduced Magic Rating. If you Magic (actual or effective) hits 0 you lose all powers, which would include Shift, effectively removing the change (involuntarily). That no longer seems to be the case in 5e, though, since Background no longer reduces the Magic attribute. Shifters just always suffer from Background Count penalties (arguably a worse fate).
I went ahead and looked it up from 4th edition also. The wording is nearly identical, and (to me) it doesn't seem to imply that maintaining the Shift requires any sort of effort. More that the act of Shifting is the only time effort is exerted, and that maintaining the current form is "automatic" as it takes the shifter's decision to shift back.
like I said, First I have EVER heard of an At Will infinite Power in SR. Ever. And this is definitely not the way I have seen any table run it, but you are free to do as you wish.
Sadly there is only one story with a Shifter in it that is related to 5e, and that was a novel by Crimsondude (Can't remember the name off hand). Other then that, most of my sources go back several editions, which makes this the first edition that a shifter can stay in their human form infinitely and even though unconsciousness (by you understanding). There is a short fluff piece in 2e Neo A guidebook of Kane knocking out and then repeatedly skinned a tiger shifter - which by your reading is impossible. There is the 3e fluff piece of a drawn out combat by Hard Exit(?) who finally Knocks out the enemy, only to have it revert to a wolf form....
So like I said, the Fluff up to this edition doesn't support that reading at all.
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So nothing from the last two editions, when a lot of setting material regarding magic started to change bit by bit. Personally, I started playing pretty much in 4th, so I don't really have the background of the era where grounding was a thing and such.
Looking specifically at the power description, what other reason would the shift power be written to have "special" duration rather than sustained? It's a Critter power, so they already don't take a sustaining penalty.
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Reaver, while I acknowledge your points, you kind of ignored what I said about constructive commentary. All I'm really getting from you (and I apologize if this isn't the case) is "this isn't possible because the fluff leading up to it says it can't be done." We're very flexible on the fluff at our table. What I'm looking for isn't "yeah, that's viable" I'm looking for ideas for runs to find the type of information that could be melded together from different sources to create a believable leadup to the solution I provided in the spoilers. In regards to her staying in one form or another, we've generally read the power as Kiirnodel has outlined it, in that Allie has complete control over her shifting and does not revert while she sleeps.
Kiirnodel, we pass the GM hat around to avoid burnout, rotating on a weekly basis (we play every Sunday, looooong sessions too) so this would be something that would be woven between the plotlines and runs that the others are bringing to the table. The other player at the table is also on board and has given me some input and suggestions for different types of experiments and labs that could conceivably be following lines of research that would benefit the final goal.
And yes, they're specifically looking into some way to have a human and/or shifter child. Balthazar is incredibly possessive of Allie, so finding a male wolf sperm donor doesn't appeal to him at all. His player has actually confirmed that Balthazar is so dedicated to getting Allie what she wants that he'd start taking stupid risks in order to die and free up Allie to move on and have pups with a compatible mate. Of course the team would be doing their best to ensure that he doesn't kack it, meaning any such risk-taking would put Allie and the rest of us at risk.
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The only way it works is via plot fiat. Magic in Shadowrun has been ambiguous and even contradictory in a couple of points.
But one place it hasn't been ambiguous is the nature of Shapeshifters.
Going by lore, the closest instance I can think of creating a viable abomination-hybrid was Aine Dupree and Yrsgrathe (a literal HORROR) conceiving Thais; and that's Earthdawn lore. (both Aine and Thais exist in Shadowrun).
Second closest would be Aardelea and the creation of Bred-Drakes (who are as human as they are dracoform in both biology and spirituality), but the information surrounding that is iffy at best, due to FASA dropping Earthdawn just as they were starting to write the lore.
If going for an Aardelea style "freak-fusion", you'd be looking at taking a human child, conjuring a shapeshifter's spirit and having it inhabit the kid; similar to how an Insect Spirit inhabits a victim.
By lore, this is far more likely to produce a tortured abomination as it is a healthy hybrid, but it's an idea, I suppose.
Just something your group will have to work out at your table.
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Like I originally said, by the canon, it can't happen.
If you don't care about canon, then fly at it any way you choose....
But saying "help me do this non-canon thing in a canon way" just doesn't work Swampfox. Either you are following canon (so it can't be done) or you're not - in which case go about it any way you choose as there is no help for you by the rules.
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Reaver, I think you missed the entire point. I'm not asking for rules help, I'm asking for run seeds for likely places for the team to find the kind of information they'll need. It's not about "is this canon" it's about "does this make sense within the framework that has been presented".
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Reaver, I think you missed the entire point. I'm not asking for rules help, I'm asking for run seeds for likely places for the team to find the kind of information they'll need. It's not about "is this canon" it's about "does this make sense within the framework that has been presented".
I would do it via an artifact, as I've outlined above. Maybe even have it only work in a place aspected to the artifact (your choice as to what aspect you want, but suggestions are animal, health and fertility of course).
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I would do it via an artifact, as I've outlined above. Maybe even have it only work in a place aspected to the artifact (your choice as to what aspect you want, but suggestions are animal, health and fertility of course).
Hmmm, I think a combination of magic and tech works best here. Perhaps a lead on an artifact that was uncovered by a corp-sponsored dig and leaked via a mole in the dig; allowing for the team to go after it... but they have stiff competition from not only the corp guards, but other teams looking for a payday, and even the local flora and fauna as an unexpected side effect of the artifact. The artifact in question is what would provide the heightened mana effect to allow the embryo's viability until it's implanted in the mother, and even then she'd probably have to visit it during the pregnancy at least once a week (or month depending on how strong I decide to make the artifact's effect) to keep the fetus healthy up until the final trimester.
Soo, perhaps the first trimester she has to bask in the artifact's influence on a weekly basis, second trimester is once a month, and by the time of the third trimester the fetus has grown strong enough that it no longer needs the aspected mana field to help sustain it. After that the team is left holding a hot potatoe that has an enhancing effect on animal and plantlife (combination of Beast, Plant and Fertility mana aspects is what I'm aiming at). Hmm, any suggestions for side effects that it could have on anything that's over-exposed to it? (mainly for the run to acquire it, I imagine that the team is going to make sure it's effects are as contained as possible once they have it in hand)
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I would really not make this mana-tech if you want your players to be happy. One of the things you can count on in Shadowrun is mixing technology and magic goes Wrong. Cyberzombies, Blue-227, FAB III, Excalibur all illustrate this point off the top of my head. I wouldn't ignore such situations, and I'd make involving technology to be a really Bad Idea. Your artifact (maybe plural, one related to Fertility, one to unification, maybe one for Love) and some very aspected leylines meeting would be the way I 'justify' it. Bringing technology into it leaves things open for Bad Stuff. Bad Stuff can be fun, but it doesn't sound like what your players want.
That said though, were I in your shoes... I'd have to nix their attempts in the end. Try what you want, getting wolf and human hybrid children between two people who love each other very much is not going to work.
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Hmm, perhaps I misspoke. I meant that there would be a combination of techniques, some using the artifact(s) and some using hard science. It wouldn't be outright mana-tech so much as it'd be an intersection of the different techniques being used at the same time. Also Cyberzombies aren't mana-tech so far as I'm aware, they're simply the final result of cyberpsychosis; and all the other examples you're citing were also attempts specifically to weaponize manatech. I'd like to think that a benign use like this has less chance of going catastrophically wrong. I will take what you've said into consideration though.
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Also Cyberzombies aren't mana-tech so far as I'm aware, they're simply the final result of cyberpsychosis
You're incorrect. 5e Chrome Flesh or (better) 4e Augmentation would be worth reading to know more.
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You might want to brush up on your cyberzombie knowledge... you're off by a fair margin.
Cyberzombies are people that have pushed their bodies well past the 'end point' (essence wise, they are in the negative range) and have to have their 'souls' bound to their bodies through ritual magic. And even that doesn't stop them from eventual, final death. (Usually through tumors, cancers and/or genetic breakdown).
Cyberpsychosis is the on set of paychological flaws and disease through the heavy implantion of ware, but generally isn't fatal in and of itself.
There are several threads on the site that talk about bith of these things and how they differ if you are interested.
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I see. Alright I will acknowledge the point there, though again that is a form of weaponizing mana-tech as opposed to a more benign use of the two disciplines in tandem.
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Weaponization wasn't the original intent; that was a way to extend metahuman life. That such a methodology of 'extending' life involves literally binding the soul into a body that rebels against it and tries to kill itself without regular maintenance while the mind deteriorates (not to mention the part where if you fail the ritual, there's a chance Something Else possesses the body instead of the original soul and things get all sorts of messed up) is what highlights how bad it is. You're missing the point where mixing Magic and Technology is bad juju. I mean, the only example I can think of without any obvious negative side effects is the Astral Signature camera which barely functions. The Excalibur project was merely initially designed as Manatech and then shunted over to a mundane platform and look at how horrible it turned out to be.
What you're talking about is messing with the basis of life. An amalgamation of Awakened and non-Awakened methodologies. It's going into an area where by Shadowrun lore it can only be dark. If you want your players to succeed with canon's input, you're best off going full Magic or full Technology, no fusion. If you feel like torturing your players, maybe make the fusion easier to access, but don't just skip out on the flaws.
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Hmmm, I think a combination of magic and tech works best here. Perhaps a lead on an artifact that was uncovered by a corp-sponsored dig and leaked via a mole in the dig; allowing for the team to go after it... but they have stiff competition from not only the corp guards, but other teams looking for a payday, and even the local flora and fauna as an unexpected side effect of the artifact. The artifact in question is what would provide the heightened mana effect to allow the embryo's viability until it's implanted in the mother, and even then she'd probably have to visit it during the pregnancy at least once a week (or month depending on how strong I decide to make the artifact's effect) to keep the fetus healthy up until the final trimester.
Soo, perhaps the first trimester she has to bask in the artifact's influence on a weekly basis, second trimester is once a month, and by the time of the third trimester the fetus has grown strong enough that it no longer needs the aspected mana field to help sustain it. After that the team is left holding a hot potatoe that has an enhancing effect on animal and plantlife (combination of Beast, Plant and Fertility mana aspects is what I'm aiming at). Hmm, any suggestions for side effects that it could have on anything that's over-exposed to it? (mainly for the run to acquire it, I imagine that the team is going to make sure it's effects are as contained as possible once they have it in hand)
As possible side-effects I can suggest two:
-first is that after exposure to the artifact any sexual act which might result in a pregnancy, will result in pregnancy. Birth-control devices fail, infertility is temporarily cured, etc. This is also the power that would allow the mating between a human and a shapeshifter, but the downside is that everybody will get the next person they have sex with pregnant (or get pregnant themselves if they are female). You can build a time-limit in it (example: if you are away from the device for one month, it doesn't work anymore). As an FYI: I nicked this from Scion Roleplay, where you have a power which does exactly this.
-the second effect is that if you are too long in the device's vicinity, you might get SURGE'd. After a suitable time period in the device's vicinity (a day, a week, a couple of hours, whatever you feel like) they have to do a body+edge roll and on a glitch or crit glitch they will get the SURGE quality. As I don't know how that looks like in 5th edition, I can't give any advice on which powers you want to give (positive and negative, I would give some of both), but maybe go for a Satyr-like look for males and a nymph-like look for females.
I would suggest to have the second effect visible first on an NPC, so the players know something is up. They will then have to either accept the fact that this can happen, or find a way to block it (there should be a way, encasing it in lead is always a good way of doing this, or bringing it into a magic dead zone, although the second one might be a lot harder). The two who want to get pregnant will have to be in the effect and they will have to decide if they want to run the risk or not.
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Any artifact of the god Frey might be a good start. Like a plain wooden figurine of the god that has been seemingly unaffected by the passage of time.
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I'm reminded of The Last Wish, one of the original short stories of The Witcher. Without spoiling too much this story too revolves around two characters who should not be able to have children wishing to have one...
So maybe it could take the form of a mertaplane quest for a wish-fulfilling, Djinn-line spirit, which turns out to be also a highly dangerous trickster spirit. Could bring in some Court of Shadows shenanigans in it too...
And a child created by such powerful magic would attract a lot of unwanted attention, from Dragons, Fae, megacorps, cults and everything in between... The happy parents would have to protect their miraculous (or, depending on who you ask, unholy) progeny from all kind of threats, like in the comic book Saga if you've read that.
Anyway, that's how I'd do it :)
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I would make it much more involved than "just " finding an artifact tbh, make them work for it.
Start by having them get their hands on some hints that suggests that for example the Apep consortium has unearthed a strange ritual from long ago that seemingly deals with this issue.
Have them get their hands on it as well as some research notes that tells of an attempt that ended in spectacular failure, but the notes suggest that the ritual is incomplete and that you probably need to secure the aid of a powerful free beast spirit.
Once they have secured such aid have the spirit inform them that they need the aid of a powerful free spirit of man as well and that they need to craft a unique foci ( check 4th ed. Street magic for the rules for creating unique foci, boo hiss 5th ed. another thing left out ).
By now you have plot hooks for at least 4-5 runs which can easily be expanded if you feel they have to really work for it, favors for the spirits, exotic reagent gathering. ...etc.
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The SR novel "The Forever Drug" by Lisa Smedman from 1999 has a male Wolf Shifter as the primary character. It repeatedly states that while he isn't "forced" to revert to wolf form to sleep it is the more comfortable and natural state for him to rest. Trying to sleep in human form which he'd attempted from time to time left him decidedly unrested.
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Since both your interested parties (father/mother) are mana-active, I'd personally stay away from the technical side, and combine an artifact with a deep metaplanar quest to turn the human into a true wolf shapeshifter for long enough to impregnate the mother. While the point about a shapeshifter having kids is accurate (that it is not guaranteed for a shapeshifter/standard critter mating to result in a shapeshifter child), the 'Striper' books at least strongly suggest that shapeshifter/shapeshifter matings have a high degree of likelihood of having shapeshifter offspring. As SR's stated again and again that scientific methodology has been utterly unable to nail down the gene sequences that turn someone magically active (if such sequences exist at all), I'd keep well away from it and look at it from the other angle ...
That's my personal suggestion, anyhow.
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Since both your interested parties (father/mother) are mana-active, I'd personally stay away from the technical side, and combine an artifact with a deep metaplanar quest to turn the human into a true wolf shapeshifter for long enough to impregnate the mother. While the point about a shapeshifter having kids is accurate (that it is not guaranteed for a shapeshifter/standard critter mating to result in a shapeshifter child), the 'Striper' books at least strongly suggest that shapeshifter/shapeshifter matings have a high degree of likelihood of having shapeshifter offspring. As SR's stated again and again that scientific methodology has been utterly unable to nail down the gene sequences that turn someone magically active (if such sequences exist at all), I'd keep well away from it and look at it from the other angle ...
That's my personal suggestion, anyhow.
Yeah, I'm going with a pure magic scenario. Going to pull togetehr a few different elements, including a) a scrap of a ritual that one of Balthazar's contacts sends him, starting the chase. B) there's another couple of agencies looking for the full ritual; but once we get it one way or another, it turns out that it requires an artifact to actually make it work rather than turning both participants into cancer-ridden sacks of flesh. C) the artifact in question was used by a deceased dragon who was in a bit of a competition wit hGhostwalker to create servant races, and had created the basis for a number of current metatypes, including shapeshifters. Using the ritual, the artifact, and a site of power to give it the needed boost, they'd be able to conceive the child they want. However where there's draconic artifacts, there's often dragons. And Ghostwalker would very much like to get his claws on his old opponent's key component to his plans. Likewise other dragons may want it for plans of their own, or simply as a way to thwart Ghostwalker. Schwarzkoph would probably want to study it, the Sea Dragon may want to use it to increase her own forces, and Llofwyr would turn it into a hatrack in his personal lair, so long as it was kept out of Ghostwalker's claws.
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I'd probably run it thus:
There's an old artefact that raises the management level in an area. It's fertility aspected with minor effects in plant and animal. This is all it does. It needs placing at the intersection of two mana lines to be effective. If done so, it will massively raise the fecundity of all surrounding living matter. Crops will be bumper, foliage will be lush and verdant, animals will multiply. Spilling into surrounding areas (effects are in balance within the radius of effect, but things spill out). This has greater effects on the awakened, so there's a greater preponderance of them there. You can imagine how poultry this would make the artefact. Conception is needed within the area, gestation and delivery would be helpful but not essential.
Second. You need a ritual to make them compatible for the coupling. This is seperate and unrelated. The theory goes that if the two are used together, things should work. But, it remains just that, a theory. Many such rituals exist of varying efficacy. I'd suggest a metaplanar quest or delve into the shinto for most effective spells. Also a useful knowledge. You can even sell the padata later.
I'd have the first rite they attempt fail and have horrific effects (on bystanders or whoever steals the the formula). Next, track down a more powerful ritual or one with less nasty side effects. Repeat as often as wanted.
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For the artifact, perhaps the Third Coin of Luck named Feng, or Fertility?
It was bequeathed by Dunkelzahn to Sharon Chiang-Wu, the wife of the CEO of Wuxing in 2057. Since then it's believed to have been behind both the growth of Wuxing and the birth of the "Wuxing Quintuplets" in 2061.
I'd say that if your players manage to infiltrate Wuxing HQ, steal the coin, and get away alive, that they deserve to have the coin permit them a child. Providing, of course, that they manage to retain the coin for the entire length of the pregnancy.
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I'd call that a definite, though I wouldn't necessarily require them to retain the coin for that period. Could have absolutely fascinating effects on Wuxing's fortunes during that time ...
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The Gestation period for a wolf is only 59 - 63 days. That's long enough for Wuxing to feel a noticeable effect but short enough that a game doesn't get too bogged down.
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Instead of stealing it, the other good option would be work for Wuxing for access to said Coin. Give them a reason, and they'll let you use it (without taking it from their holdings).
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Is no one else worried about the fallout resulting from a shapeshifter/metahuman child? Everyone from the dragons to the fragging Black Lodge will want to get their hands on that kid.
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I still think the easier solution (all around) would be for the human "mate" to suck it up and simply get the wolf girl pregnant via actual wolf. Not saying that they should go out and get a breeding male wolf stud and treat her like a farm animal being bred. But artificial means are totally reasonable.
The result wouldn't be the boyfriend's child (genetically), but the whole thing wouldn't require strange pseudo-magically quasi-technical mumbo jumbo that may or may not break the laws of nature both in- and out-of-character. Plus the result would just be a pack of wolves, nothing super eyebrow-raising. They could raise the pups until they were fully grown and then find a way to teach them to get along on their own. It would be much less intensive time-wise than trying to raise a metahuman baby... Those things take like years before they're self-reliant.
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Given that this is a sociopathic black mage we're talking about here, I don't think "reasonable" options have any application here.
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Saw this thread, and while its definitely taken a turn for the "magicky" I thought I'd throw a little science in the mix..
In theory you can cross anything with anything else.. more and more you hear about these kinds of things already happening.
How? I'm glad you asked.. <incoming biotech geekiness>
An "offspring" is just another organism with parts of both parents DNA. Even with current technology it is possible to splice DNA into existing cells. The DNA doesn't even have to come from the same species. There are already plenty of examples of getting organisms to produce "unnatural" proteins by splicing in the proper genes.
Now extending this idea, its not unreasonable to consider making an "offspring" by choosing select pieces of each parent's DNA.
You might think a shapeshifter and a human are "incompatible", because a wolf and a human can not breed naturally, but keep in mind that even a human and a mouse have 97.5% similar DNA (which is why we test stuff on mice all the time). So a simple example would be.. crossing the human's eye color into the wolf DNA.
Take this to the extreme and I could easily see that it would possible to mix the parents DNA to make an offspring.
If you consider that shapeshifter DNA is not exactly wolf DNA, there may well be genes that determine what the human shifter looks like. In that case, it makes even more sense.
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Saw this thread, and while its definitely taken a turn for the "magicky" I thought I'd throw a little science in the mix..
In theory you can cross anything with anything else.. more and more you hear about these kinds of things already happening.
How? I'm glad you asked.. <incoming biotech geekiness>
An "offspring" is just another organism with parts of both parents DNA. Even with current technology it is possible to splice DNA into existing cells. The DNA doesn't even have to come from the same species. There are already plenty of examples of getting organisms to produce "unnatural" proteins by splicing in the proper genes.
Now extending this idea, its not unreasonable to consider making an "offspring" by choosing select pieces of each parent's DNA.
You might think a shapeshifter and a human are "incompatible", because a wolf and a human can not breed naturally, but keep in mind that even a human and a mouse have 97.5% similar DNA (which is why we test stuff on mice all the time). So a simple example would be.. crossing the human's eye color into the wolf DNA.
Take this to the extreme and I could easily see that it would possible to mix the parents DNA to make an offspring.
If you consider that shapeshifter DNA is not exactly wolf DNA, there may well be genes that determine what the human shifter looks like. In that case, it makes even more sense.
This is also already being done in Shadowrun. It's where chimeric critters come from.
Chimera would also make an awesome future runner handle. Just saying...
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The problem lies in the magogenetics - you might have a shifter-human cross via genetic tampering, but doing this means there is no in-canon way at all to be able to guarantee a) which biology takes precedence, b) whether the creature born is sentient, and/or c) whether or not it can shapeshift - much less possess, due to the genetic blenderizing, any other of the shifter abilities. Chimera tinkerers can generate llama-cats with glowing alpaca fur all day long, but that's all still 'standard' genetics - bioluminescence and whatnot. It's the magic side what'll screw you over every time, simply because humanity doesn't understand what triggers, how it triggers, or (and this is still important in genetics) when it triggers - or turns off.
And while Chimera might be a good runner name, well ... I wouldn't get caught with it within 2000 miles of Seattle. A certain group of ex-KGB kick-artists might take offense.
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The problem lies in the magogenetics - you might have a shifter-human cross via genetic tampering, but doing this means there is no in-canon way at all to be able to guarantee a) which biology takes precedence, b) whether the creature born is sentient, and/or c) whether or not it can shapeshift - much less possess, due to the genetic blenderizing, any other of the shifter abilities. Chimera tinkerers can generate llama-cats with glowing alpaca fur all day long, but that's all still 'standard' genetics - bioluminescence and whatnot. It's the magic side what'll screw you over every time, simply because humanity doesn't understand what triggers, how it triggers, or (and this is still important in genetics) when it triggers - or turns off.
And while Chimera might be a good runner name, well ... I wouldn't get caught with it within 2000 miles of Seattle. A certain group of ex-KGB kick-artists might take offense.
Well, (a) and (b) are legitimate concerns, manipulating the genetics of a creature might cause problems. But (c) would be a concern no matter what. Being a Shifter isn't entirely genetic in nature. Shifters don't have to be born to other shifters, and a Shifter's child(ren) isn't guaranteed to be a Shifter themselves. It's basically the equivalent to the inheritable traits of being Awakened. There's no way to guarantee that a child will be magically active, even in humans.