[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

So you don't find it at all unreasonable for an average agility 3 human who's high on Jazz to be able to move at 31+ miles per hour? (three initiative passes, two move actions per pass, plus a run action with at least 1 hit. He goes a lot faster with more average hits.)

 It is no more unreasonable than a player of mine being able to move 56m and wack someone with a sword before anyone else can react.  (Phys Apt with 7 Agility.  Turn one, last Initiative Pass,  he breaks cover and runs 28m; Turn 2 he wins initiative and runs 28 more meters and does a melee attack Complex action that gains the Charge bonus as he ran into combat)

... 56m?  What a frickin' slowpoke.  My character sprints an average of 59m in one complex action ...

Look, Zekim, I get that you don't like how the current rules are, because it's tough remembering how far everyone went, their limit is XYZ, yadda yadda.  There's a no-issue fix for this - because your problem really isn't that the guy went 56m in 'two actions', considering that you're setting up the same option.  (This is just how it works, but don't worry, I have a fix for that too.)

Everyone gets four basic 'movement points' per Turn.  Each movement point equates to moving their Agility in meters.  They can move less than the full amount if they want, but if they do, that movement point is still used.

• Moving more than 2 points worth per Turn inflicts running penalties on all subsequent actions when the third point is used.
• If the character wants to sprint, they expend a Full Action, get the movement remaining from using all their remaining movement points, and make their Athletics/Running (Sprinting) roll as per the book, adding the appropriate number of meters on.

If you want to make this a cyclical sort of thing, then characters' movement point allowance regenerates at a rate equal to (4 divided by this Turn's initiatve score / 10) per action phase, round down, nstead of every Turn - which means that you can't actually make the Run + Run on immediately-subsequent initiative passes if you're a hyper-fast guy, because you'll have only regenerated 1-2 movement points.

Here's the kicker for this second suggestion: you continue to have Running penalties until you once again possess at least 3 movement points.

This makes movement tracking easy - "Okay, Mook 3 and Mook 5 have used 1 point each, they're still fine, but Mook 4 wants to use another movement point, so he's now Running" - AND does not require you to track precisely how far each mook has run.

Heck, look at Shadowrun Returns.  It uses a completely different action point system where actions, including movement, cost 1 or more action points.

If only someone had suggested a system like this....

.... actually, from having just stepped away from the DMZ rules, it sounds like Shadowrun Returns utilizes something very, very similar.  Which would make sense - the guys who did SRR also wrote the 1E DMZ rules.  Shocking, that, I know.  I've all but concluded my DMZ alteration to work with SR5, but I'll note that the DMZ 'reaction fire' really messes with people - reaction fire is definitely the way to go, because it allows you to fire more than once or twice if you're operating against multiple contacts ...

[Namikaze]

Wyrm, I am extremely impressed with your movement point idea.  This is definitely how the game currently works, and allows for more tactical movement as well (if desired).  Excellent work!  *bow*

[Lucean]

Looks interesting, but might increase the need for bookkeeping, as you added another resource to the table.

Ryo mentioned it before and it seems to have gone unnoticed, but splitting movement allotment according to the maximum number of initiative passes in the given round only requires calculation once per Combat Turn and no additional bookkeeping.
This makes it again harder for melee types, but on the other prevents the mentioned "double-move" for instant-whacking.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Looks interesting, but might increase the need for bookkeeping, as you added another resource to the table.

On the contrary, it reduces the need for bookkeeping.  Give everyone four of something - coins, little colored Pente pieces, whatever.  If they want to move, they 'expend' those for a period of time - every Turn, whatever.  And for each (Agility)m or fraction thereof they want to move, they have to expend 1 'something'.  And of course, if they don't have at least two of them, they're defined as Running.  Otherwise, you have to keep track of the exact number of meters run, and if you're over Agility x 2, you're running, or Agility x 4 and you have to sprint - but you can use all those meters in one action phase.

Ryo mentioned it before and it seems to have gone unnoticed, but splitting movement allotment according to the maximum number of initiative passes in the given round only requires calculation once per Combat Turn and no additional bookkeeping.
This makes it again harder for melee types, but on the other prevents the mentioned "double-move" for instant-whacking.

Ryo spoke about isolating meters/action phase, yes, which in a way this does as well - or at least, that becomes an option, with due consideration of the 'return of movement points' option.  Whether that makes it harder for melee types is something each table will have to decide ...

[Erling]

If you want to make this a cyclical sort of thing, then characters' movement point allowance regenerates at a rate equal to (4 divided by this Turn's initiatve score / 10) per action phase, round down, nstead of every Turn - which means that you can't actually make the Run + Run on immediately-subsequent initiative passes if you're a hyper-fast guy, because you'll have only regenerated 1-2 movement points.

Can you explain calculation formula in a more detailed way? Maybe give an example? I don't actually understand what's "Turn's initiative score".

As for me, I like houserule suggested by FasterN8 somewhere at the forum. All movement is divided into three Initiative Passes notwithstanding how many actual Action Phases characters have. So character with Initiative Score 12 would have Action Phases in IP #1 and IP #2, but he can make his movement in IP #3 as well. Available movement is divided into 3 IPs, remainder floats towards earlier IPs. So character with Agi 4 can walk 8/3 meters (3, 3, and 2) and run 16/3 meters (6, 5, and 5).
In IP #1 he can walk up to 3 meters or run up to 6 meters, in IP #2 he can walk up to 3 meters or run up to 5 meters, in IP #3 he can walk up to 2 meters or run up to 5 meters.
I don't remember how FasterN8 treated sprinting, but I tend to let my players make Complex Action for sprinting at every Action Phase.

The only thing about movement under RAW I don't like is "teleport effect" when melee character runs 16 meters in one IP and attacks a guy who is pointing a gun at him and dully waiting as melee character approaches.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Can you explain calculation formula in a more detailed way? Maybe give an example? I don't actually understand what's "Turn's initiative score".

... errr, since you used 'Initiative score', and since your initiative score is determined (i.e. rolled) every Turn ... I'm not sure where the disconnect is.  The 'initiative/10' is how you figure out initiative Passes, though, so if it's easier for you to think in IPs, then you regenerate your movement points in a quantity equal to 4/IPs.  So if you have 2 IPs this turn, you regenerate 2 movement points per initiative pass; if you have 3 IPs, then you regenerate 1 movement point per initiative pass, with one of the passes (GM's determination as to which, but I'd say typically the last) regenerating 2.  If you can use only 1 initiative pass - whether because you went Full Defense or whatever - then you regenerate 4 MPs every pass.

Savvy?

[Erling]

I simply took Initiative Score 15 as an example and got 4/15/10=0.02666(6) as a result
Now I see you implied 4/(Initiative Score/10, round up).

But won't that hurt character with high Initiative Score?
For instance, Combat Turn 1 is over (all MPs were spent), Combat Turn 2 is about to start. Sammy Heavy-Wired rolls and gets 3 IPs, Mook McSlowman rolls and gets 1 IP. Mook McSlowman regenerates 4 MPs and can make immediate rush for Agi x 4 meters, while Sammy can walk only Agi x 1 in first IP.
Teleport is still on (for Mook).

And what about reducing Initiative Score with wounds and Interrupt Actions? Must regeneration rate be recalculated in this case?

[MadBear]

This is why I like the DnD  based movement system. Spend a Simple Action, move your AGL in meters. Running doubles that. Done. Easy. No new calculations needed.
And there is no teleporting, for anyone. Wired Sammie with 3 Action Phases will move a lot more over the course of the round than Mook, but not all at once, and only by spending Simple Actions. Everyone is on equal footing.

[Namikaze]

This is why I like the DnD  based movement system. Spend a Simple Action, move your AGL in meters. Running doubles that. Done. Easy. No new calculations needed.
And there is no teleporting, for anyone. Wired Sammie with 3 Action Phases will move a lot more over the course of the round than Mook, but not all at once, and only by spending Simple Actions. Everyone is on equal footing.

Yeah that is a much simpler system.  I'd like to personally see a separate 'movement action' to fit into the SR rules.  But I tried thinking of something like this, and it ended with me wanting to pull my hair out.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

But won't that hurt character with high Initiative Score?
For instance, Combat Turn 1 is over (all MPs were spent), Combat Turn 2 is about to start. Sammy Heavy-Wired rolls and gets 3 IPs, Mook McSlowman rolls and gets 1 IP. Mook McSlowman regenerates 4 MPs and can make immediate rush for Agi x 4 meters, while Sammy can walk only Agi x 1 in first IP.
Teleport is still on (for Mook).

Er, no.  I'm actually kind of glad you've been this persistent, because the 'regeneration' process is broken - just in the other direction.  Let me explain.

You suggest that as Combat Turn 1 is over; all MPs are spent.  This means that everyone was running around, literally.  Instead of just saying 'all MPs are spent', and presume that it means that somehow hey, Sammy Lightning is screwed, let us instead reconstruct the action, shall we?  By doing this, we'll see how Sammy is actually walking all over the opposition, again literally.  Our target, however, is that at the end of the initiative phase, for all MPs to be spent.

Initiative: Mook McSlowman 9, Sammy Lightning 31.  With 1 AP, Mr. Mook will regenerate 4 MPs per action pass.  Sammy on the other hand, with his 4 APs, will regenerate 1 per action pass.

• IP 1: Sammy Lightning spends 1 MP, moving his Agility in meters, i.e. is walking, to do what he does.  Mook McSlowman does what he does, moving his full 4 MPs.  Takes the penalties for Running.
• IP 2: Sammy Lightning regenerates 1 MP, spends it right away to move another Agility in meters, and is still walking.  Does what he does.
• IP 3: Sammy again regenerates 1 MP, spending it again to move another Agility in meters, and despite having used 3 MP this Turn, still hasn't 'broken a sweat' - he's still in fact walking.
• IP 4: Sammy regenerates yet another MP, back up to 4, and then spends all 4 in order to move 4x Agility in meters.  He has, this Turn, actually moved 7x his Agility in meters.  Only in this AP does he take Running penalties, since he's always had 3+ APs.

The two then roll off again, Sammy getting 3 IPs this time, the Mookster getting 1 again.  Mookster can Run 4x Agility again if he wants, but it really is paltry compared to the 7 x Agility that Sammy just pulled off.  Sammy, meanwhile, regenerates 1 MP, and for his first pass, can either move (and continue taking Running penalties) or hold off on moving - but he'll actually still take Running penalties, 'cause he only has 1 MP.  (Alternately, the GM can rule that if he stopped, the 'odd' point regenerates now, and he doesn't have to worry about Running penalties until/unless he moves again.)

What would be more proper is for MPs to start regenerating only after the first Turn passes - so that Sammy Lightning starts taking Running Penalties on his third action phase, and for every phase to come, again within which he doesn't have at least 2 MPs left.

So no, I guess, it isn't perfect.

And what about reducing Initiative Score with wounds and Interrupt Actions? Must regeneration rate be recalculated in this case?

I would expect so.  Logic certainly suggests it.

[Erling]

IP 4: Sammy regenerates yet another MP, back up to 4, and then spends all 4 in order to move 4x Agility in meters.  He has, this Turn, actually moved 7x his Agility in meters.

Wait, why 4 MPs? He's got to regenerate only 1 MP per AP, hasn't he?

Not concerning regeneration system, just about bookkeeping: hmm, I think I should give my players counters in the beginning of every Combat Turn: two marked with "1", two marked with "2" and two marked with "3". Each couple of counters will represent movement ability in an appropriate IP. PC can spend one counter for walking and two counters for running. At the end of IP #1 all remaining counters marked with "1" are discarded.

[Lucean]

The problem I see, Wyrm, is that you make high initiative even faster in allowing more movement.
Your sammy had 7xAGI instead of the 4xAGI, so if he was an Elf with AGI 11 he would be moving with 25m/s which is 90km/h, without breaking a sweat. Or in other figures, that is more than twice the speed of Usain Bolt
To reach this speed in the original system he'd need 28 hits on his 4 sprint tests, spend a Complex and a Free Action each pass and get to resist 1S, 2S and 3S for fatigue.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Which is what I just pointed out, yes.

A more appropriate regeneration rate would be to regenerate whatever you used in that IP last turn.  If you have fewer IPs, at the end of the Turn you regenerate everything used in the later IPs as well.  If you have more ... then you don't regenerate anything in that/those last IP(s), do you?

[Lucean]

I'm not sure that this is really helping.
So for 1-pass-guys this doesn't change anything concerning actual rules.
And if one guy doesn't move in IP 1 and IP 2 and then tries to rush in IP 3 using 4 MP, he couldn't move at all in the next turn, if he only get's 2 passes, aside from spending complex actions to sprint.

So your system doesn't prevent teleport-moves and can also be abused in one direction or the other. I wouldn't recommend such a change.

Why don't we just take the AGI x 4 for running rate per turn und AGI x 2 for walking and then divide the movement rates per pass according to the highest number of passes present in the encounter?
This prevents Joe McSlow to teleport-run in his only pass like in SR4, but still allows high-Agility characters to get some mileage out of their investment, despite weakening melee in the process. It wouldn't prevent you from calculating movement rates, but having at least one participant to get 31 initiative actually makes it really easy.
In the end it would prevent more weird cases, so that the effort should pay off.

[Erling]

I'm not sure that this is really helping.
So for 1-pass-guys this doesn't change anything concerning actual rules.
And if one guy doesn't move in IP 1 and IP 2 and then tries to rush in IP 3 using 4 MP, he couldn't move at all in the next turn, if he only get's 2 passes, aside from spending complex actions to sprint.

So your system doesn't prevent teleport-moves and can also be abused in one direction or the other. I wouldn't recommend such a change.

Why don't we just take the AGI x 4 for running rate per turn und AGI x 2 for walking and then divide the movement rates per pass according to the highest number of passes present in the encounter?
This prevents Joe McSlow to teleport-run in his only pass like in SR4, but still allows high-Agility characters to get some mileage out of their investment, despite weakening melee in the process

At first sight it's a plain solution, but there are some side effects:
1) In those cases when all characters have only one IP, "teleport attack" can still occur (the situations when highest Initiative Score is less than 11 are quite rare though);
2) Highest Initiative Score can decrease during the combat, so you'll have to recalculate movement somehow or distribute remaining movement by IPs left.

That's why system with standardized 3 IPs for movement has its advantages: you don't have to recalculate movement even if the highest Initiative Score was decreased, "teleport attacks" won't happen even when all characters have 1 IP.