Shadowrun

Off-topic => General Gaming => Topic started by: AJCarrington on <02-14-16/1007:52>

Title: The Division
Post by: AJCarrington on <02-14-16/1007:52>
Can't believe that I haven't started a thread about this one yet...oh well ;)

When this game was first announced, it was only online, as I recall, but now will be coming with a single-player campaign as well.

Tom Clancy's The Division (http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.com/game/en-US/home/index.aspx?time=201402250004436214)

The just released a "primer" live-action video to set the stage for the upcoming release in March:

Tom Clancy's The Division: Agent Origins (Escape) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUWNBPVRjTw)

For those of you who follow CanRay, he recently posted that he's in on the Closed Beta and will be taking a look at the game over the next week or so.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <02-14-16/2350:04>
I was just in Gamestop the other day to get my fix, and rammed to one of the employees about TheDivision. I was leaning towards picking it up anyway, because of the background and it being Tom Clancey, but when he mentioned it having a single-player component and the ability to either group or solo it moved to my must buy category!  ;D


*Edit:* Loved the video, thanks for the link! I am a bit curious as to why they went with smallpox as the disease though: Although the smallpox vaccine is no longer given since the disease's eradication, there's supposed to be enough smallpox vaccine stored in the U.S.A. for every citizen. From what I remember if taken before infection, it prevents infection, and the vaccine can be taken within a few days (up to a week?) of infection to prevent or reduce the effects. Some people would slip through the cracks (such as the anti-immunization crowd), but I have a hard time believing the government would collapse before being able to distribute the vaccine without something else being involved. hopefully the game will explain that.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: MijRai on <02-15-16/0030:50>
Diseases change.  Could easily have evolved (or been engineered) to be vaccine-resistant or resistant to medication. 
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <02-15-16/0258:28>
Diseases change.  Could easily have evolved (or been engineered) to be vaccine-resistant or resistant to medication.


That would be an acceptable explanation, as long as they actually do give some kind of explanation.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: AJCarrington on <02-15-16/0808:00>
There are a total of 5 videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpwyzkZha0Z6qbceVlKbD0B6SrYaWpZVG (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpwyzkZha0Z6qbceVlKbD0B6SrYaWpZVG)

One of them specifically hints about a "conspiracy", but not sure how this will be played out in the game.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Backgammon on <02-17-16/1421:24>
I have it on preorder. Anyone here an Xbox player? We can maybe get together for the multiplayer part.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Sendaz on <02-19-16/1034:43>
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2016/02/19/excommunicated
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: AJCarrington on <02-19-16/1318:43>
I have it on preorder. Anyone here an Xbox player? We can maybe get together for the multiplayer part.
Sorry, PC-only here. Stupid question...are the only options segregated based on device (PS vs XBox vs PC)?
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PeterSmith on <02-19-16/1334:44>
Sorry, PC-only here. Stupid question...are the only options segregated based on device (PS vs XBox vs PC)?

Yes, there is no cross-platform support. That is part of...The Division.  8)
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: AJCarrington on <02-19-16/1506:24>
Touché! ;D
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: bangbangtequila on <02-26-16/0128:11>
Sorry, PC-only here. Stupid question...are the only options segregated based on device (PS vs XBox vs PC)?

Yes, there is no cross-platform support. That is part of...The Division.  8)

Lmfao. Nailed it.

I played both betas, and I can say the level of improvement just between the two was phenomenal. If there is the same level of improvement and bug fixes between the open beta and the release, it is going to be a freakin' power-house of a game. Just be careful in the dark zone!
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <02-29-16/0709:34>
I have preordered it for ps4.
Only played the open beta weekend but it was a good experience. Didn't touch the dark zone at all manly due to the entrance camper rogues.
Speaking of Dark Zone I do not like being forced into pvp (potential or not). From what I understand some story missions forces you to go there ... Sigh
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <02-29-16/0724:45>
yea, I avoid twitch online games. Being an 'old as dirt' gamer, I just can't keep up with the young bucks. Add in the few wobbly pops I have while playing games..... and it's a wonder I don't headshot a team mate every corner.... 
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <02-29-16/0728:44>
Well there aren't any friendly fire to squad mates but tension might trigger conflicts.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <02-29-16/0809:29>
I went ahead and prepaid for it at the local Gamestop; I knew I was going to get it anyways, and I like what I've seen and heard about it so far.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <02-29-16/0834:47>
Amazon here so I'll be pretending to be a fireman. It isn't gonna foul the Cleaners but here's to hoping.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-04-16/2238:08>
It looks kinda interesting... But I'm also aware of just how much has been cut out from earlier ideas.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-05-16/2131:54>
It's always like that isn't it? They hype it out of proportions only to pull it back again.   
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-06-16/0622:18>
This is true, but I've struggled to keep interest in it since they pulled the tablet based areal drone thing... I felt it was something that really set the game apart and was going in a really interesting direction.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-06-16/1059:47>
They pulled that!?? ::
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-07-16/0048:13>
This is true, but I've struggled to keep interest in it since they pulled the tablet based areal drone thing... I felt it was something that really set the game apart and was going in a really interesting direction.


I was looking forward to that, but I was expecting it to either get nixed, or at least severely nerfed; aerial support in such a setting could be massively overpowering.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-10-16/0128:36>
Reading about a whole lot of bullet sponginess...  :-\
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-10-16/0451:36>
Reading about a whole lot of bullet sponginess...  :-\

Eh, it's the price to pay for being an RPG: being able to one-shot them in the head would make the RPG elements next to worthless. As long as you aren't fighting any NPCs too high above your level, it hasn't been terrible in my experience.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-10-16/0456:29>
Warframe seems to hit a better balance.. enemies can be bullet sponges if you're just spraying into them, but Headshots can usually one shot an enemy if the weapon is strong enough.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-10-16/0522:05>
Warframe seems to hit a better balance.. enemies can be bullet sponges if you're just spraying into them, but Headshots can usually one shot an enemy if the weapon is strong enough.

I'm not familiar with Warframe, unfortunately. In The Division, a lot of the enemies behave rationally (i.e. take cover behind objects that would actually give good cover). As such, often all you get exposed to shoot at, at least for a bit, is the head; having instant-kill headshots would make it too simple, I think. It's a trade-off I'm OK with.

The biggest problem I have, other than the high system requirements, is that it's a game you need to be online to play, but it's not like a lot of MMOs in that it's run off your computer instead of just having assets on your computer and running off of their servers. This is going to allow a lot of cheats, and it doesn't seem like they have a strong anti-cheat system in place (or any system, really).

I've seen videos already where people have used programs to mod insane rates of fire (somewhere between a WWII German MG42 and a mini-gun). It won't make much difference in PvE, but with the best gear supposed to be in the PvP enabled Dark Zone, it's going to cause issues.

Character customization is also fairly limited, with the female faces mostly being rather ugly. Not a huge gameplay issue, but annoying for those that enjoy having a good-looking, slightly unique look.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-10-16/0653:08>
Well I guess I should qualify "Headshot with a high power weapon like a fully drawn bow, sniper rifle or 'hand cannon' sidearms, lighter weapons may still need 2-3 headshots in succession." Even then if you take an unleveled weapon into a high level zone even headshots aren't going to do jack... And many Warframe enemies also take cover (makes Penetration mods soo fun and useful to headshot someone though their cover  ;D ).

I guess Warframe has gone a bit more towards the combat mechanics, while Division has (supposedly) gone more towards RPG mechanics... Just sounds like Division has sacrificed more of shooting than Warframe has RPG elements.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-10-16/0746:43>
Well I guess I should qualify "Headshot with a high power weapon like a fully drawn bow, sniper rifle or 'hand cannon' sidearms, lighter weapons may still need 2-3 headshots in succession." Even then if you take an unleveled weapon into a high level zone even headshots aren't going to do jack... And many Warframe enemies also take cover (makes Penetration mods soo fun and useful to headshot someone though their cover  ;D ).

I guess Warframe has gone a bit more towards the combat mechanics, while Division has (supposedly) gone more towards RPG mechanics... Just sounds like Division has sacrificed more of shooting than Warframe has RPG elements.


That's a fair assessment, from the sounds of it. I do need to make a bit of a disclaimer, in that I'm only up to level 3 so far, and have just left the tutorial area; I have no idea if the game will be changing significantly now, although I doubt it.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-10-16/0950:46>
The Mighty Jingles just released a video on The Division on his youtube channel.

Have to say, not what I was expecting..... but still interesting. May just have to find some time to try it out...
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-10-16/2321:45>
Well I guess I should qualify "Headshot with a high power weapon like a fully drawn bow, sniper rifle or 'hand cannon' sidearms, lighter weapons may still need 2-3 headshots in succession." Even then if you take an unleveled weapon into a high level zone even headshots aren't going to do jack... And many Warframe enemies also take cover (makes Penetration mods soo fun and useful to headshot someone though their cover  ;D ).

I guess Warframe has gone a bit more towards the combat mechanics, while Division has (supposedly) gone more towards RPG mechanics... Just sounds like Division has sacrificed more of shooting than Warframe has RPG elements.


That's a fair assessment, from the sounds of it. I do need to make a bit of a disclaimer, in that I'm only up to level 3 so far, and have just left the tutorial area; I have no idea if the game will be changing significantly now, although I doubt it.


So I started running around the main area this morning when I got home from work. You start in some kind of FEMA/Military camp, and there's vendors there. I strongly urge anyone playing to buy a better weapon from there! I changed out the Navy MP5 everyone starts with for the classic AK-47, and the difference was tremendous: I was taking down equivalent level NPCs in one magazine, sometimes only half of one when I could get head-shots (which appear to give bonus XP if the killing bullet hits their head; I need to test that more). Bosus still take a fair bit of shooting, but it's not as bad as the tutorial. Perhaps they toned the NPCs down a bit?
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-10-16/2323:46>
The Mighty Jingles just released a video on The Division on his youtube channel.

Have to say, not what I was expecting..... but still interesting. May just have to find some time to try it out...


I'll go check that out! I love his videos, and I found out about a couple games (Warthunder and Armored Warfare) from watching his Youtube channel.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-10-16/2336:22>
The Mighty Jingles just released a video on The Division on his youtube channel.

Have to say, not what I was expecting..... but still interesting. May just have to find some time to try it out...


I'll go check that out! I love his videos, and I found out about a couple games (Warthunder and Armored Warfare) from watching his Youtube channel.

lol same :P
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Angelone on <03-11-16/0619:54>
Love this game so far. I'm almost ready to enter the danger dark zone.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Backgammon on <03-11-16/0749:59>
God, I'm done playing missions at Hard. You go in with 4, by the time you reach the end everyone but 1 guy has dropped off, you die over and over trying to push past the last checkpoint, takes 2 hours to finish a mission you can't leave and finish later. So frustrated.

My advice: if you're playing with public matchmaking, and not a bunch of people you actually know and trust will stick around, don't do mission on hard.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-11-16/0822:53>
One thing I forgot to mention: If your computer doesn't meet the minimum specs, in ALL areas, it's going to be rough. I thought mine did, but my processor is below the minimum recommended processors. It's never been an issue on any other game out there, including some rather intensive ones, but this game laughs at my puny processing power. For me that means that new areas take a long time (several minutes usually) to load, often giving me invisible walls until new areas load. NPCs also load last, and usually a few minutes after everything else has loaded: If I get spotted by them before they load in, I can't touch them even with explosions (although it's been reported that melee attacks may work), while they can kill me with impunity. On the plus side, it's the kick in the pants I needed to upgrade my computer after several years!  ;D
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-11-16/1335:29>
yep.

Hit lvl 11, and just about to go into the Dark Zones as well...

So far, I am liking the storyline they have inbedded....
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Angelone on <03-11-16/2334:31>
I held out until 30 with all the upgrades before entering the Dark Zone. I feel that works best for me with my meticulously reckless playstyle.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-14-16/1856:39>
I'm enjoying the game with a pair of friends of mine. We are aiming for being lvl 15ish before dipping our toes in the piranha pool that is DZ
But the PvE side of things is great. I particularly love picking up cellphones. Some of them have me laughing. They are well then. I especially like the one I found with what in the beginning starts like a pair of rapists but turns out to be a pair of plumbers
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-14-16/1956:18>
Hit lvl 30 and rank 33DZ

Some things I have a issue with..


The whole tap, hold, dbl tap HAS TO DIE IN FUCKING PIT OF FIRE!!! way, way, waaaaaaay too often the game fucks up and screws you with this system. Case in point, the healing probe. If you click once it give you a ranged heal. Click twice it heals you..... I have died 10000000000 fucking times because I want to myself, yet it ONLY gives me the ranged heal AND WILL NOT FUCKING CANCEL!!! (Supposed to right click.... yea, NOPE!!!!)


Cover system.... spent 5 minutes glued to a truck just fucking circling it cause I COULD NOT break cover, no matter what button I pushed or direction I moved in. CRTL-ALT-DEL fixed it once.... but have been stuck circling cover too many times to count..... ESPECIALLY fun when you are trying to avoid a grenade and want to dive away..... so I just end up diving INTO the cover and eating a nade..... #/#$^$#^&/#@/&**^$@@$&**^$-@@/&*(&/#$&** !!!! <Not fit for publication, even here>

The  loot system... press once to pick up..... unless there is an item.... then you have to hold.... unless there is 2+, then you have to press, then hold...... WTF?????  JUST PICKUP THE FUCKIN STUFF!!!!!!!

●●●●

But that is about it, and for being a really new online game, if that is the list of my issues, they have done a good job!


Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-14-16/2119:35>
I'm not a fan of the cover system either. Sometimes when I want to flee from especially grenades I stay glued to my cover (except when spamming X for dodging) other times it suddenly just released you usually just in time for a headshot. Personally I would have preferred a crouching button instead of this glueing but oh well.

Other than that I haven't really encountered any issues on the ps4
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-14-16/2330:08>


Cover system.... spent 5 minutes glued to a truck just fucking circling it cause I COULD NOT break cover, no matter what button I pushed or direction I moved in. CRTL-ALT-DEL fixed it once.... but have been stuck circling cover too many times to count..... ESPECIALLY fun when you are trying to avoid a grenade and want to dive away..... so I just end up diving INTO the cover and eating a nade..... #/#$^$#^&/#@/&**^$@@$&**^$-@@/&*(&/#$&** !!!! <Not fit for publication, even here>

The  loot system... press once to pick up..... unless there is an item.... then you have to hold.... unless there is 2+, then you have to press, then hold...... WTF? ??? ?  JUST PICKUP THE FUCKIN STUFF!!!!!!!




Yeah, those two have annoyed me, but mostly the cover system; I was trying to get the doctor to start up the base, and was teamed with someone else. They had to wait a few times because it wouldn't let me unstick myself from cover. >:(

I finally turned on the parkour system to help with this; hopefully trying to sprint will at least allow me to advance from cover.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Angelone on <03-15-16/0024:02>
I've noticed the cover thing recently too. Also more and more rogue agents in the DZ. I used to have a nice solo route through it but it has gotten dangerous.

I wish there was a suicide bomb button for when you know you can't win and want to give a middle finger to the enemy. Maybe make it DZ only.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-15-16/1155:13>
I've noticed the cover thing recently too. Also more and more rogue agents in the DZ. I used to have a nice solo route through it but it has gotten dangerous.

I wish there was a suicide bomb button for when you know you can't win and want to give a middle finger to the enemy. Maybe make it DZ only.

there is.


your turret perk, it can be upgraded to explode on death.. and since you can kill it on set-up..... you place AND blow it up in the same go.... and it hurts/kills you. (It has killed ME a few times....)
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <03-20-16/0817:10>
Finally got a new power supply in my brand new computer that can power everything except the DVD player/burner, and I'm loving it now! Messed up just a bit by getting the Medical Wing up and running instead of going for the Security Wing first for the extra XP boost. Right now my weapon load-out is 1)L85 IW w/ sight, forward angled grip, and extended mag mods, 2)M21 (drops from the Security Wing mission boss) w/ the scope it comes with, and suppressor, and 3)the sawed-off, double barrel shotgun that comes with the Season pass. The sniper rifle has come in handy for keeping the Cleaners at a distance, either via headshots or (my favorite) shooting their fuel tanks and turning them into human bombs. I'm leery of going into the DZ, but I'm only level 7ish, so it will be awhile yet.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-20-16/1549:49>
Amazing how fast the game turns around...

Lvl 30, Rank 51.

Me and a buddy do "Pistols and shields" hardmodes just for the fun of it....
And we have Consulate 3 man challenge mode locked down pat.

A week ago, just getting a group to finish a hardmode was impossible :P

Hope the incursions open up soon as the DZ is getting old fast.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Backgammon on <03-21-16/1100:30>
Yeah, last week I made level 20 to 30. Now I finished all the missions. Over the weekend I did some DZ action.

I gotta say, this game is done. The DZ stuff is not really interesting. Get more gear, is that all? What's the point? The PvP isn't something you seriously do either. Doing missions on Hard has some interest, it's certainly some solid, hairy gameplay, but without a story to drive me forward, I don't see the point. I know many gamers will be into that, but it's not for me. I need a story.

So... yep. Next to the Syndicate reboot they did a few years ago, this gets the award for shortest game.

I'm not disappointed by what it was while there was something there, but I'm obviously disappointed by the lifespan of this game.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-21-16/1135:34>
more content is on the way. there is Incursions coming soon. And the DLC next month....

but yea, they should have had more at launch...
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-21-16/2221:56>
A problem with the game industry these days is its reliance on DLCs to complete the games. Many games feel cutshort and you suspect that it is deliberately so in order to get another infusion of money from dlc sales.
Back in the days expansions would do a spin off unrelated to the main plot but that sadly does not seem to be the case anymore.
It really does raise the question why incursions were not in the game from day 1.

...

I myself have only reached lvl 19 and still haven't taken any steps into DZ but I'm growing a bit bored with the repetition of the encounters and sidemissions. I really wish there had been more story missions ...
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <03-22-16/0052:46>
Dude. Preaching to the Faithful here!

I'm an old school gamer. Like Commadore 64 old. And I have been with the industry through litterally 100,000 games. (As us skool gamers can tell you, there are thousands of games you've never heard of out there for these Dino systems.)

I have watched the industry go from "Guys in a basement" to the original powerhouses of the industry. Only to watch them crash and burn in their own hubris. (Lookin at you Atari.)

And I have watched the quality of games decline year after year. Sure they are prettier now, but the actual *Quality*, as in style, flavor, writing, and engagment? Not so much.
Yes there are some gems that come out every few years. And before you all start waving the pitchforks, yes Skyrim was a good game. Yes Fallout4 is a good game. And I am sure your beloved electron game was good too. Gems in a vast sea of utter crap that gets added to year after year...

And do you know why? Why? WHY?!?! CAUSE THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS FILLED WITH FUCKIN RETARDS! That's why. They buy up crap after crap, often times with glee!
And don't even get me started on 'Season passes' and freakin 'Pre-Orders'. Its the Idiots that buy this crap that ENABLE companies to turn out shite!

Without even KNOWING the finished product people are buying EXPANSIONS, to an unreleased product?!?

"But Reaver! If you buy the Season's Pass you Save MONEY! The company swears that you'll save 'X' dollars over 'Y' expansions!"

Yea, that assumes the FIRST product isn't shite to begin with. And WHO exactly determines the 'value' of these Expansions? Are you all going to sit there and tell me Bethseda's first foray into 'season's passes' was a hit with Obivion? Are you Really going to tell me freakin horse barding was worth $15.99?  And that's only one example from one company! (That has made 5 of my 10 best games list)

I could go on for PAGES! But my cell battery won't last that long, and the rental on the man lift to get me on my REALLY tall Soap box is too expensive :(
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-22-16/0127:39>
You speak nothing but truth. As you say there's a lot more emphasis on visuals now then the great deep storylines of old (ah, the glory of the C64 and the patience required to load games after forwarding the cassette to the correct time).

As we now dwell in a dominated by those hungering instant gratification the great stories can now only be found within the pages of fiction and, though more rarely, movies and TV shows. VR games will be little new except maybe a more intense action rush.

Luckily there are still people willing to gather and spin their own takes around a dining table full of dice and chips
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: PiXeL01 on <03-22-16/0354:34>
So, patch day. Are the patch changes, especially in terms of DZ risks/rewards for rogues, good or bad changes?
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: KarmaInferno on <06-02-16/0449:33>
I stopped playing a while back on PC because of the hacking issues. Seriously, teleporting players, flying, infinite hit points, etc. It was like walking into the original Diablo multiplayer all over again.

I mean, seriously, who stores critical character info on multiplayer games client-side these days? Were they TRYING to get hackers? The game developer's phrase "The client is in the hands of the enemy, never put anything critical in the client" got coined for a REASON.


-k
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Dinendae on <06-02-16/0557:40>
Yep, I got one character through all the zones except for the Dark Zone, and I refuse to take it in there due to the hacks. I noticed on the many videos showing the hackers that they seem to have the same names as the constant gold spammers. That was another major fail: Who puts an ignore feature in that can be defeated by starting a name with a standard character ( the minus sign in most cases)? I remember  when Anarchy Online came out, and had made the same mistake of hosting critical files on the PC end; it took them several years of rebuilding large chunks of the code and then patching to replace the older code to get that fixed.


I would say it surprises me that any company that wants to make an online only game would follow that mistake, bu I've seen far too many games fail to learn the lessons that other games brought to light. Heck, Funcom couldn't even take lessons from Anarchy Online's auction house mechanic when they first put out their Conan MMO. When The Division gets around to dealing with these problems, I'll take a look at it then. It's a pity, as I really liked the story and setting.  :-\
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: Reaver on <06-02-16/1234:01>
I was lucky. I was able to get to max level for both the game and the DZs before the hackers became too big a problem...

But the other problems got me. Namely that there is dick all to do! There is just so many times you can run the same 8 instances or the incrusion before you are litterally playing while asleep....

And the crafting system....... yea..... "Please spend 6 hours in the DZ, dealing with cheaters and other characters to craft a single item.  IF you are lucky".....

Some good ideas, good graphics, good story. Killed by too little to do, too many hacks, not enough dev support.
Title: Re: The Division
Post by: bangbangtequila on <06-02-16/1247:10>
The second incursion update really helped a lot. I'm on Xbox One, so I never faced the hacker issue, really, and the glitches aren't really game-changing to me. There's the occasional bugger hiding in walls, but knowing where the soft spots are lets you just hose them down, and none of the players with good gear and stats bother with the cheap tricks.

Likewise, the modifications to the dark zone made crafting much easier, and supply caches made it WAY easier to grind up the credits for blueprints.