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[5e OOC] Tabula Rasa, Chapters II and III

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Malevolence

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« Reply #345 on: <12-11-14/2022:13> »

Timeline:
1) Ohanzee asks for input - check
2) Doc puts out a suggestion:
"... I want to find out more information about the artifact ..." - We all agree
"... It'll probably take me the better part of a day to find solid information about it ..." - unless you meant that you had to start immediately and not take any breaks, this doesn't conflict with Doc doing other stuff today
"I need a little bit of time to repair my deck ..." - Have you taken a peek into the Matrix to cover our six since you woke up?
"I could really use a day or two, or three." - I'd like to give that to you, but despite pop culture wisdom to the contrary, resting is somewhat less effective when you are dead.
3) Folks agree - yes, though with potential caveats about staying put for more than a day
4) Ohanzee directs Doc to go out and look for cars - point of clarification - he said "find", not "go out and look". For the first car, you will be hacking it and commanding the pilot to drive to a location in the next town, no physical presence needed. For the second, you will be hacking it to allow Chino to drive it. You don't need to leave the house for either task.
5) Doc says that's kind of counter-productive for him (in a dickish way) - it sounded to me that he was disagreeing with Ohanzee's priorities because he was placing getting a ride above searching for info, which he was.
6) Ohanzee says that Doc is being an ass for suggesting that he not go look for cars - Ohanzee was clarifying why he prioritized getting cars above researching the artifact. He wasn't implying Doc was an ass, he was just stating that there was indeed an element Doc was missing - that he was being dense:
Doc says "So you'd rather NOT get more information on the artifact, and just wait until tonight and have this discussion again?" (Emphasis added)
After Ohanzee had said "I suggest that we take another vote this evening after we've learned more." (Emphasis added)
7) Ohanzee says cars aren't a priority, and lists getting info second only to staying alive - Ohanzee specifically states that getting a car is in support of staying alive:
"This is what the first part of today is working towards - getting a vehicle improves our odds of staying ahead of our pursuers. Misdirection is also a critical part of that plan." (Emphasis added)


Does that help clarify things?
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #346 on: <12-11-14/2039:12> »
I don't know what RIH stands for.

Conversations like this are a challenge. Six people responding to the ideas of five other people while trying to adjust their input to what the previous four people said, and so on. Makes my head swim too. I must have spent half an hour writing my last IC post trying to make sure I covered everything. I'm not entirely sure I'm following the OOC clarifications either.

If we come to a clear consensus, fantastic. However, I am mindful of getting overly bogged down in the planning, which is a hallowed Shadowrun tradition dating back to 1st Edition but can be the deathblow of a PbP. If there is confusion about IC tone/statements I would encourage people to give each other the benefit of the doubt OOCly. Rest assured I will not brutally murder you if your plan is not 100% perfect because the details were getting too cumbersome. (Softly murdering you is still a possibility.)

Several people have asked about PvP. Normally I am not a fan but this is not a traditional game. Spying, eavesdropping, and other "trust but verify" measures are all on the table. PvP fighting is certainly not encouraged but will be honored if it is realistic for the situation. We're telling a story together, which is supposed to be interesting and dramatic, but we're also playing a game so I'll do my best to keep it fun for everyone involved.

Zweiblumen

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« Reply #347 on: <12-11-14/2042:49> »
I see the problem. Ohanzee misunderstood 'better part of a day'. Doc is gonna need 12-18 hours for his research.
That was stated the night before. When he said better part of a day he really meant it.

That made it look like Ohanzee wanted him in two places at once. Also, he can't rest to heal if he's out skulking around for a car, which peeves him off a bit.

Also, we have more then a day here most likely. Unless we screw up.

As for overwatch, the agent is actively doing that.


Note: typing on an iPhone on a train in the storm is a PITA.

Re: Tec RIH stands for reading is hard. I was implying that I may have had reading comprehension problems.
« Last Edit: <12-11-14/2048:19> by Zweiblumen »
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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #348 on: <12-11-14/2050:35> »
As for pvp I'd prefer to stay away from it.  Wasn't thrilled about hacking chino, but it was in char to do so.  Really don't want to skeeve on people's fun which was a big part of me asking here before replying IC, also want to point out that the result would have been doc complying, not fighting.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #349 on: <12-11-14/2109:22> »
I see the problem. Ohanzee misunderstood 'better part of a day'. Doc is gonna need 12-18 hours for his research.


Concerning the 12-18 hours, I'm pretty sure that does not need to be consecutive. It can be put on hold to handle interruptions and emergencies as they crop up. Doc can start his research, and when any member of the away team finds a potential candidate for a car or diagnosis room he can stop researching, handle that, then return to the search. He might need to take a more active role in the hunt for a car, but all in all I'm hoping that finding the two vehicles we need won't take more than a couple hours, leaving most of the day available for the various research Doc needs to do.



Also, we have more then a day here most likely. Unless we screw up.

Ohanzee is not saying we can't stay for more than a day, he just wants to be prepared in case that is suddenly no longer an option.


That made it look like Ohanzee wanted him in two places at once. Also, he can't rest to heal if he's out skulking around for a car, which peeves him off a bit.

And, again, you don't have to leave the house to do any of this.


"But Doc and I don't really have a role in that scenario. I think we could work well from the cabin anyway, so there may be little need for us to travel."

As for overwatch, the agent is actively doing that.

Ah, good.

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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #350 on: <12-11-14/2221:28> »
Yeah, misunderstanding plus different interpretations of the rules = rough communication 😝

So, my understanding is its 10ish in the morning. Doc has about 30 min of repairs on his deck and needs to spend 30 min with you and 30 min on himself. If he's lucky, he only need 12 hours to get the info we are looking for on just the artifact. We start doing more research like on contacts and such and that'll push that further. As it is, we are looking at around midnight before he's going to have data. With no interruptions.

As for the car, he'd have to leave the house. He can't boost a car that's not running. And with distance comes noise and grid differences, etc etc. he'd really need either to carjack someone or be onsite. To be effective. That said, we can totally take ownership of a car once we get it. Which is a great idea!  He just can't do both things at the same time. Additionally, I didn't make the connection for priorities of car== staying alive. I'm a bit fuzzy on that particular correlation.

Anyway. We'll go with having doc go get a car. I don't want to step on toes or cause any more rifts. He can heal later, and run the search another day. Though I don't thing dam is going to like delaying blowing it up.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #351 on: <12-11-14/2253:25> »
The decoy car should probably be taken from nearby, and so should not incur much noise penalty, and with the weather improved, there should be very little noise apart from distance. Running or not, a car should be on the matrix, so that should not be a barrier. Also, Chino will be your hands and feet if you need any anything shy of a direct connection. So far, no one has locksmith, so the B&E has to be through Hacking or Cybercombat. The DR of a car is such that there is no significant need for a DC and you can hit all of Aspen with less than a -3 to your DP due to distance. If the car is in a garage, you might experience another -1. Most vehicles are pilot rating 1-3 which should make them DR 1-3, or 2-3 if you use the table on pg 234. So, outside of a PAN, the highest dice pool you will face is 6, protected by a PAN you will add the DR of (max) 3 to a commlink of (max) 7 for 10 dice. Your DP of 15 - (max) 4 vs. (max) 10 still provides decent odds of success. You can choose softer targets, go hotsim, use edge, and/or use programs/agent teamwork to add more to your DP to improve your odds. You can grid hop in order to negate that penalty - in Aspen, it is unlikely that any vehicles will be on the public grid since anyone that can afford to come here can afford a lifestyle that provides them better Matrix access.


If they find us again and we don't have a car, our only option is to stay and fight. And if we survive, fight the next hit squad because we can't move fast enough to evade them on foot. So I think a vehicle is critical, unless I've overlooked something important.


I'm relatively new to the game, so I might be missing some important rule(s) that make stealing a car remotely more difficult than I've outlined, so I will have to defer to your expertise. My understanding of car theft isn't so much stealing it, as it is not getting caught once the owner notices it has gone missing.
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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #352 on: <12-11-14/2309:24> »
I'm fairly new also, but as far as I know, powered off devices are not on the Matrix.  Am I wrong about this?
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Poindexter

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« Reply #353 on: <12-11-14/2309:45> »
I'm fairly new also, but as far as I know, powered off devices are not on the Matrix.  Am I wrong about this?

i think you are right.
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rednblack

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« Reply #354 on: <12-11-14/2320:47> »
You can grid hop in order to negate that penalty - in Aspen, it is unlikely that any vehicles will be on the public grid since anyone that can afford to come here can afford a lifestyle that provides them better Matrix access.

IIRC the public grid here is spectacular, and PCC subsidized, so unless I'm mis-remembering most of the townies are going to be running off it.

I'm fairly new also, but as far as I know, powered off devices are not on the Matrix.  Am I wrong about this?

i think you are right.

My understanding as well.

@Mal, Ace has Locksmith 4.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #355 on: <12-11-14/2342:31> »
The public grid sucks no matter where you are. The LOCAL grid in Aspen is spectacular.


Devices are always on.


Pg 236: This is rarely an issue for most devices because they almost never need to reboot.


You can reboot a device and set a very long delay before it powers back on, but devices are assumed to be on unless the owner specifically turns them off in this fashion, which they are unlikely to do (it's better to just turn wireless off and leave the device itself on if you are concerned about security). So, yes, "powered off" devices are not on the Matrix, but most devices are never "powered off", even when not in use.


Sorry, I misspoke about the locksmith part - neither Doc nor Chino have locksmith (that we know of), so the argument to have Doc there to assist in breaking in is moot. But, since Ace's locksmith is so high, it might be worthwhile to work him into the plan, but I still think the best bet is just doing it from cyberspace.
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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #356 on: <12-11-14/2355:43> »
I think at this point it's best if Tecumseh lets us know how this works as us debating it is rather moot.  If I can steal a car that isn't running while sitting in the house resting and doing a search while the agent runs matrix overwatch in both places, I'm all over it!  Lets do it :)
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8-bit

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« Reply #357 on: <12-12-14/0050:08> »
Glad to see that everything is moving.



As a note on Chino's abilities: He can get us a car ... noisily. I mean, he wrecks things like buildings, but he's not exactly a lockpick (as far as I know; seems unlikely) kind of guy. He probably needs Ace if we want to remain unnoticed. The reason I (or rather, Chino) was thinking Doc could help was simply to loop security feeds again so that it was easier to stealth. If that isn't possible with all the other stuff Doc has to do, then it's probably null sweat. I'm sure there are other things Chino can help with.



Regarding PvP; I would prefer to avoid it. Our little jaunt into it was fairly friendly and fun, but usually it does not end well.



As for powered off things not being in the Matrix ... yes and no. It depends on what you mean by "powered off".

If you mean no electricity at all? Yeah, sure, it's not on the Matrix. However, most devices are never completely off, and cars are a special exception. A lot of cars start wirelessly through your commlink; that implies that they are on the Matrix. This is done for convenience, and quite honestly, it's a part of security. Activating it wirelessly means that any bombs meant to kill a passenger (while limiting collateral damage) means that it goes to waste (and saves your life). And, especially considering that it can be slaved to a host (which rich people have; quite high rating ones in Aspen, IIRC), then it's pretty secure against most hackers. I think you would have to break into the car to physically access it with a universal data port (in order to bypass host ratings). At that point, hacking is probably a moot point, although if there is no physical key startup, then it may be necessary.

That's my understanding of it. Might be wrong, especially since this is not a normal situation.

Zweiblumen

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« Reply #358 on: <12-12-14/0201:32> »
First repairing my deck:
Repairing deck Logic(9) + Hardware(4) = 13: 13d6t5 3
Well, that was a crappy roll, was hoping to be able to speed it up, but at least after an hour it's fixed.

Going to do a bunch of searches looking for cars.  I don't think specifically looking applies to matrix searches, so I didn't include it.

Assuming I've access to the local grid as that's been more or less what's been happening so far:
5 Matrix Perceptions (looking for cars within 10k) Computers(5)+Intution(4)+Qualia(1)+VR(2)+DataJack(1)+SignalScrub(2)-Wounds(1)-Noise(3)=11: 5#11d6t5 5 2 4 6 5

That should only take a few seconds, so think I'll have found a few options for Chino/Ace/Ohanzee to choose from.

Lastly, I should have asked this forever ago.  What Grid(s) do I have access to?  That'll show at least some degree of what kind of lifestyle Doc used to have.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #359 on: <12-12-14/0248:15> »
GM interpretations / rulings. These may not be true of everything everywhere (i.e. the Barrens would be different) but these describe the reality of a rich town like Aspen:

Stealing vehicles
- Cars always have their wireless on.
- Cars at home (e.g. in a garage) are slaved to the host of the home.
- Cars not at home (e.g. in use, parked in front of a store) are slaved to the owner's/driver's commlink.
- Cars can be hacked from the comfort of your own home, but because they are slaved it's not a Device Rating 2 slam dunk.
- Cars may be stolen manually via Locksmith. However, cars driven manually can be overridden by rigger control or remote control (per p. 265) so you could lose control of the vehicle while you're driving it manually if the owner figures out what is going on.
- Cars have maglocks on the doors. These maglocks may be accessed by direct connection, which would allow a decker to hack a car in-person.

Matrix Search
- Conducting a Matrix Search for such an obscure topic as the obelisk may take up to 12 hours - could be less depending on hits - but it does not have to be continuous. The search can be stopped and resumed as it is convenient.
- However, a matrix search will only come up with information that is publicly available and not protected or kept secret.
- Information that is not publicly available may be available on a specific host, but you would have to identify and enter that host before you searched it (interval = 1 minute).
- Stealing cars would require putting the matrix search on pause for the duration of the stealing. However, hacking cars is a relatively fast process if you don't get caught.
- The agent could either conduct the search itself or help via teamwork but would have to be pulled off Matrix overwatch to do so.

Other rulings
- The current time (at brunch) is around noon.
- As using the Matrix is a primarily mental activity, it would not necessarily interfere with Doc's healing (as long as he doesn't start soaking biofeedback damage).
- The local grid (AspeNet) is cutting-edge superb, with no Spam or Static Zones (unless you start creating public health emergencies). There is no Noise due to distance within the town.
- Everyone in Aspen has access to the local grid. Because everyone has access to it, the local grid is the "public grid" in Aspen, but without the usual negative modifiers of a public grid. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.
- Ryo did not mention Doc having a lifestyle or even a SIN. I will double-check with him, but until then Doc only has access to the local grid, not any global grids.
- Doc's matrix perception detects approximately 19,225 vehicles within 10km.

Did I miss anything?